Did Islam Ruin Afghanistan ?

[bennedose]

Hey Dude, Just cut with the Insults all right? You are here to debate on this Topic and not insult UP,Bihar, If You wish the same just open a New Topic and debate over it. Otherwise Shut the ---- Up.

Yeah yeah - all that this guy neds is a chmacha who does not notice it when Pratap makes racist comments about south Indians but get your chaddis in a huge knot when I point out thatUP and Bihar have both not recovered from the Islamic invasions which you claim affected only Afghanistan. So you need to get back to your debate before you try and dictate what anyone else says.

 

[shinoj]

Yeah yeah - all that this guy neds is a chmacha who does not notice it when Pratap makes racist comments about south Indians but get your chaddis in a huge knot when I point out thatUP and Bihar have both not recovered from the Islamic invasions which you claim affected only Afghanistan. So you need to get back to your debate before you try and dictate what anyone else says.

You bought UP and Bihar in the discussion before anything. Its you who got his chaddi in a twist when talking about Afghanistan. Go Open a thread on whatever you feel like but stick to the Topic here.


Really Hate the Indians who discriminate amongst yourself and try to put each other Down. They are worse than the foreigners who attack us.

 

[Bhadra]

You all in this league

 

[bennedose]

No need to lie actually. Wherea re your evidences on Hindu civilization in Afghanistan during Ashoka?

1. Before Ashoka:
Pāṇini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


2. During Ashoka
KING ASHOKA: His Edicts and His Times

Indeed, Beloved-of-the-Gods is deeply pained by the killing, dying and deportation that take place when an unconquered country is conquered. But Beloved-of-the-Gods is pained even more by this -- that Brahmans, ascetics, and householders of different religions who live in those countries, and who are respectful to superiors, to mother and father, to elders, and who behave properly and have strong loyalty towards friends, acquaintances, companions, relatives, servants and employees -- that they are injured, killed or separated from their loved ones. Even those who are not affected (by all this) suffer when they see friends, acquaintances, companions and relatives affected. These misfortunes befall all (as a result of war), and this pains Beloved-of-the-Gods.

There is no country, except among the Greeks, where these two groups, Brahmans and ascetics, are not found, and there is no country where people are not devoted to one or another religion.[26] Therefore the killing, death or deportation of a hundredth, or even a thousandth part of those who died during the conquest of Kalinga now pains Beloved-of-the-Gods. Now Beloved-of-the-Gods thinks that even those who do wrong should be forgiven where forgiveness is possible.

3. After Ashoka:
Pre-Islamic Hindu and Buddhist heritage of Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The first mention of a Hindu in Afghanistan appears in the 982 AD Ḥudūd al-ʿĀlam, where it speaks of a king in "Ninhar" (Nangarhar), who shows a public display of conversion to Islam, even though he had over 30 wives, which are described as "Muslim, Afghan, and Hindu" wives.[

 

[bennedose]

You bought UP and Bihar in the discussion before anything. Its you who got his chaddi in a twist when talking about Afghanistan. Go Open a thread on whatever you feel like but stick to the Topic here.


Really Hate the Indians who discriminate amongst yourself and try to put each other Down. They are worse than the foreigners who attack us.

I hate anyone, Indian or not who spouts racist rubbish about Indians and I will speak up whenever I see that happening. A racist on one thread is a racist on every thread.

 

[shinoj]

You all in this league

MatureTard

 

[shinoj]

@Bhadra



Utter crap. What is Afghan identity? Pakistan has atleast one group(Punjabi Muslims) who form more than 50 percent of population. Afghanistan is one of the most fake nations in world with speakers of Turkic as well as Iranic languages live.

Well in quite a lot of reports i have read pakistanis hate their Punjabi Heritage and they want to side with Saudis and Central Asians and treat Punjabi with contempt. They are ashamed about their own origins and try to supress every detail that links them to their Hindu Past. Not recognising Bhagat Singh is one of them. That means They hate their own Culture so what makes them different from the Afghans?

 

[Mad Indian]

Are there Any Moderators here? There are a whole bunch of Dogs let Loose.

Does that mad dogs include the racist European wannabe shit bags with huge inferiority complex and identity crisis?

 

[civfanatic]

@bennedose
you need to discuss/debate with @civfanatic on islam/hinduism etc etc. I will look forward to that discussion( i think many on DFi will also look forward for this exchange)

Civ where are you??

I have hardly any time for Internet nowadays. I will just be making a few comments here because you specifically tagged me.

As regards the title of the thread, it is too vague and does not specify what it means by "ruin". In terms of social/economic factors, we cannot say that Islam itself had a ruinous effect on Afghanistan before the 1980s. It terms of cultural factors, you could say that Islam made Afghan culture much more oppressive especially with regards to women. The 2nd century Assyrian scholar Bardesanes writes that Afghan women of Kushana age wore the same clothes as men, rode horses and carriages in public, and had no compulsion to be chaste (he states that some Kushana women even bought male slaves for sex). Even if these are exaggerations, it is probably true that Islam made Afghan society much more patriarchal and limited the freedoms of women. One cannot imagine Afghan women of the 13th century acting the way that Bardesanes described one thousand years earlier.

However, if you are talking about art, literature, architecture, and other aspects of "high culture", then Islam definitely did not ruin Afghanistan. Indians may hate Ghaznavids, but it was under their patronage that the Shahnamah, the greatest piece of Persian literature in history, was composed, and it is for cultural achievements like this that Ghazni is praised by Afghans. We also find many architectural gems from Islamic Afghanistan, which in my opinion rank among the most beautiful buildings in history

You can hate Islam and Islamic values if you wish, but you cannot say that the people who built structures like these were mere barbarians with no sense of cultural refinement:

 

[shinoj]

Does that mad dogs include the racist European wannabe shit bags with huge inferiority complex and identity crisis?

All the Wannebes included. Only Wannabe that is not included in Indian Wannabe.:cool2:

 

[shinoj]

I have hardly any time for Internet nowadays. I will just be making a few comments here because you specifically tagged me.

As regards the title of the thread, it is too vague and does not specify what it means by "ruin". In terms of social/economic factors, we cannot say that Islam itself had a ruinous effect on Afghanistan before the 1980s. It terms of cultural factors, you could say that Islam made Afghan culture much more oppressive especially with regards to women. The 2nd century Assyrian scholar Bardesanes writes that Afghan women of Kushana age wore the same clothes as men, rode horses and carriages in public, and had no compulsion to be chaste (he states that some Kushana women even bought male slaves for sex). Even if these are exaggerations, it is probably true that Islam made Afghan society much more patriarchal and limited the freedoms of women. One cannot imagine Afghan women of the 13th century acting the way that Bardesanes described one thousand years earlier.

However, if you are talking about art, literature, architecture, and other aspects of "high culture", then Islam definitely did not ruin Afghanistan. Indians may hate Ghaznavids, but it was under their patronage that the Shahnamah, the greatest piece of Persian literature in history, was composed, and it is for cultural achievements like this that Ghazni is praised by Afghans. We also find many architectural gems from Islamic Afghanistan, which in my opinion rank among the most beautiful buildings in history

You can hate Islam and Islamic values if you wish, but you cannot say that the people who built structures like these were mere barbarians with no sense of cultural refinement:

Werent Most of the Precious Gems and Jewels stolen from Indian Hindu Temples like Somnath,Kashi,Ayodhya and much More.

They can proclaim it as good as they can but they fact is Gazis and Ghaznavis and Ghauris were looters,Pillagerss, Men with Least Ideals and almost Animal Like. And the only reason they were able to do what they did in India was lack of strong Indian Leaders like Prithvi,Rana,Shivaji.Hemu and Co. And little bit of complacency on Indian Part also helped Like Prithvi Forgiving that Dog Ghauri.

They were mostly Dogs .


PS: Cant laugh enough about people who Claim Afghans have a Culture. They were merely Dogs who stole,Looted,Pillaged Indian areas and built up whatever closely resembled as Culture in Afghanistan. They are more likely Retards roaming around in deserts who got excited by a Religion Called Islam and started their Animal behaviour.

And whats more laughable is a bunch of Indians supporting them.

 

[civfanatic]

The rulers of UP and Bihar have ruled South.

UP and Bihar have been ruled far longer than South just as how Papua New Guinea remained free more than South from foreign invaders. We have produced rulers who have ruled over a large area. Hinduism, Buddhism all emerged in UP and Bihar. We were nearer to Turks, hence defeated.
Mauryans defeated Seleucus Nikator. Who was defeated by Southies?

Please name me which rulers of UP and Bihar "ruled South" with references and evidence. Besides Ashoka (who reigned for not even half a century) I cannot think of any.

Gurjaras, Pratiharas, and Palas were all defeated by "Southies". It was a South Indian empire (Rashtrakutas) that was called by the Arabs as one of the four great powers of the world, and it was another South Indian empire (Cholas) that launched the only maritime raids of Southeast Asia from India by any Indian power in history. It was the South Indians who successfully drove out the Turks of Delhi Sultanate within a few years of their invasions into the South (unlike U.P. and Bihar which remained under foreign rule for over half a millennium), and established an independent empire that was called by Babur as the most powerful in India.

 

[civfanatic]

Werent Most of the Precious Gems and Jewels stolen from Indian Hindu Temples like Somnath,Kashi,Ayodhya and much More.

They can proclaim it as good as they can but they fact is Gazis and Ghaznavis and Ghauris were looters,Pillagerss, Men with Least Ideals and almost Animal Like. And the only reason they were able to do what they did in India was lack of strong Indian Leaders like Prithvi,Rana,Shivaji.Hemu and Co. And little bit of complacency on Indian Part also helped Like Prithvi Forgiving that Dog Ghauri.

They were mostly Dogs .

The looted jewels and wealth did not magically transform themselves into mosques and shrines. No matter what you think you cannot deny the artistic achievements of Islamic dynasties of Afghanistan. They speak for themselves.

Like most Indians, you are simply incapable of thinking about historical issues with an objective, clear mind. You view these figures as the "bad guys" and hence you intrinsically try to deny or downplay any achievements that they made. Maybe as you grow up and mature, you will learn to be more objective and appreciate things for what they are.

That is all that I will be posting for the next few months. Ciao.

 

[shinoj]

The looted jewels and wealth did not magically transform themselves into mosques and shrines. No matter what you think you cannot deny the artistic achievements of Islamic dynasties of Afghanistan. They speak for themselves.

Like most Indians, you are simply incapable of thinking about historical issues with an objective, clear mind. You view these figures as the "bad guys" and hence you intrinsically try to deny or downplay any achievements that they made. Maybe as you grow up and mature, you will learn to be more objective and appreciate things for what they are.

That is all that I will be posting for the next few months. Ciao.

Yes, Grab a Bunch of Poor Indians from Agra or the North. Hold them in Chains and bring them to Afghan and Kill them after they Build a Monument or behead them or gorge out their eyes or Cut their Dicks and convert them to Islam.


Thats Culture for You.:superlol:

 

[Bhadra]

@civfanatic
What about thousands of artisans that were taken by Gazani as slaves from India that constructed these structures ?

What about the plunder of India (Punjab Sindh and Somnath) that sustain economy of this construction

 

[TrueSpirit1]

He is wrong on every point. The idea that pre marital sex, dating and tolerance of homosexuality was norm in India before Islam is a shameless idea.

How are you so sure that bennedose is wrong on all counts ? Some proof supporting your assertions would help because your views are contrary to the mainstream, conventional or popular belief-system. So, being politically-incorrect wouldn't be convincing enough unless some supporting evidences are shared.

The burden of proof or the onus in on you. I am sure you can share enough.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

You are clutching at straws. I never said anything about homosexuality. You need to make up things to catch me out because you are unable to counter what I ask.

I believe he has countered every single point raised by you but not backed them enough with proof & evidences (unlike, what he did in AIT thread where he shared enough well-regarded & popular evidences).

Your narrative sounds lot more convincing because it panders to the mainstream belief among resurgent Indian mindset (like, the majority on DFI). But some evidences from your side would help the readers decide better.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

You cook up what is convenient for you and blabber as if a civilization has survived. just look at how much Hindi is corrupted. Compare that with Bengali, or even Malayalam and Kannada in terms of Sanskrit content for that matter. Frothing at the mouth does not replace abject ignorance. Only after independence India has tried to Sanskritize Hindi.

How many Hindi speakers say "aurat" and not "nari"? Hindi retains a huge number of Persian or Arabic origin words. Just because you imagine that some pure civilization exists means zilch to anyone else. The whole of India and that includes Tamil retains a healthy dose of Sanskrit so quit quoting 19th century western nincompoops whom you imagine were scholars.You simply don't know anything more than how to bluff confidently.

While you are correct about the overbearing & visible foreign-influence on Hindi, could you please let us know which popular language in India is closest to Sanskrit ?

Also, speakers of which language find Sanskrit most natural as it comes "real easy" to them ? Please speak from personal knowledge & experience, which you have aplenty.

 

[Mad Indian]

All the Wannebes included. Only Wannabe that is not included in Indian Wannabe.:cool2:

Which is comical considering that you have liked the posts of the wannabes here

 

[Mad Indian]

@civfanatic
What about thousands of artisans that were taken by Gazani as slaves from India that constructed these structures ?

What about the plunder of India (Punjab Sindh and Somnath) that sustain economy of this construction

No such thing happened. People of NW India instantly became muslims peacefully without any sword play, rape, plunder or murder. Islamic leaders were paragons of religious tolerance