Did Islam Ruin Afghanistan ?

Discussion in 'Subcontinent & Central Asia' started by shinoj, Apr 4, 2014.

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  1. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    Finallly, someone to bludgeon the utter ignorant views of that man bordering on mental retardness. Right now, "sita ram"emanating from my neighbourhood from loudspeakers of "Ramayan ka patha" has been going on for last 24 hours and this scene virtually everywhere and man says that UP lost Hindu culture.
     
  2. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    Where have I used word Idiot? Advani tried to stop Modi by help of Shivraj Singh who himself is an OBC . Where is caste in all this?
     
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  3. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    He is a self-proclaimed racist. He invariably brings in gora-kala/naarth-south but what about you ? Are you a kid like him ?

    No need to stoop to such levels which is extremely unbecoming of you. Learn from Singh, Virendra & Thakur Ritesh who have never lost it ever.

    Dr. you need a serious dose of reality :rotfl: i.e. if there is a cure for senility, you must be knowing.

    To compare Afstan culture with Hindi-heartland & expect getting away with that is just that....wishful thinking.
     
  4. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    Common sense. Sir, there is not a single matriarchial ulture in world history of last 5 thousand years which knew writing or had any progress in any sphere of life independently. Vikings, Pre 400 Ad Japan and many African tribals are testimony to this. The very fact that all matriarchial cultures adopted Patriarchial one as soon as they cam into contact with , proves my point.
     
  5. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    @TrueSpirit1
    I was in my previous avatar. Could you show me where I did this in current times? He is certainly not a kid which explains his lying.
     
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  6. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    Are UP & Bihar under Islamic societies & under Taliban ? Is Af-stan a part of Indian Union like UP & Bihar ? How can the two be compared ?

    Can there be an India without UP & Bihar ?

    Some twisted logic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  7. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    @civfanatic


    The only battle fought by Ashoka seems to be against Kalingas as in none of his vast corpus of inscriptions , he makes any mention of any other conquest. When there are records and there is absence of mentioning conquests, it does mean that he inherited South(not TN and Kerala which were too primitive) from his father. Bindusara does not appear to be a remarkable ruler so it seems that Chandragupta got south under his boot. A man who could hold his own( evidence seems to be that he defeated Nekator but let us be conservative) against Seleucid empire could have easily defeated chiefdoms of deccan. We do get three rulers atleast. The reason why there is no writing in inscriptions from south during Chandragupta is because most of recent scholarship like SR Goyal holds that writing was invented by Mauryans under Ashoka.

    Also, you are still in delusion as regards ethnicity and geography. Just as an Azeri can claim Qutb Shahi dynasty as his own, we can claim all Brahmanic rulers like Pallavas, Satvahanas and Kshatriyas like Ikshavakus. In my view, modern day Telegus having surname Raju are descendants of Ikshavakus.
    You might claim that they were just indigenous rulers adopting brahmanical culture but admission into Brahmin caste was very diificult and moreover, it does not explain why they did not use their native languages. Tamil Chera, Chola and Pandyas used tamil language in their small donative inscriptions in early centuries of Christian era because they were indigenous. I do not buy that Telegu and Kannada were not used because they were"primitive".

    Brahmins and Kshatriyas issuing from Gangetic plains will be regarded as "rulers from UP and Bihar"


    True. Rashtrakutas defeated Pratiharas many time and also sacked Kannauj. Similarly Cholas made a raid on Bengal which was successful. But they did not rule any part for even a year unlike Mauryans and Pallavas and host others.

    The quote is not for entire century. It is when Rashtrakutas were at their height and Arabs who were in enmity with Pratiharas made this at a specific period. It was not that we have some credit rating agency which issued certificates every quarter per century. Pratihara and Rashtrakuta can not be called "empires" in true sense for their structure was feudal. Arabs saw Rashtrakuta rulers at apex and got confused with Persian, Greek and Han conception of empires. In reality, Rkutas were as much centralized as Pratiharas that is not at all.
    Now, given that during Mihirbhoja almost entire upper Gangetic plain, Gujarat, Rajasthan and MP owed allegiance, it is common sense that in 870s he was paid allegiance by more chiefs and kings with greater resources than South Indian ones. Just because Arabs did not make a statement , it does not mean that Pratiharas were any less at their height.

    Conquest of Andhra was child's play for Samudragupta and he thrashed Pallavs of Kanchi without being defeated or repulsed by them.

    Yes it was great achievement if we look at Indian poor record of navigation. Logistically speaking, it was brilliant work.On historum, there is a member called Dreamhunter who is an ethnic Malay and he says that one Cambodian scholar has given some evidence that Chandragupta Vikramaditya stayed in Indonesia and consolidated his power there. Some gold coins are presented as evidence.

    It was Samudragupta whose authority was recognised by King of Sri Lanka , Assam, Nepal as well as Kabul. The Allahabad pillar inscription uses word Devaputra for then reigning Kidarites. No ruler of India( even foreigners like Khiljis or Mughals) did this.


    Hats off to Kakatiyas under my name( not taking any credit:rofl:) for their brilliant resistance to first Khiljis and then Tughlaqs. Vijaynagar was called as most powerful by Babur, but militarily its record was less than average. Bahmanis with far less resources( Ferishta notes this) always had an upper hand and killed its citizens in large numbers and this shows its inferior military. When they broke down, KDR attained success but once they united for Jehad, Vijaynagar was mercilessly destroyed. Islamic attack on south started only in 14th century and it was sustained by Bahmanis who had far less resources than empires like Khijis or Ghorids or slave dynasty.
     
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  8. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    No, likes of Mayawati, Mulayam, Lalu are all faces of same coin. They do not believe in the idea of India & Indian-ness. They are there for preserving & expanding their personal fiefdoms. Crony-ism, anarchy, dysfunctional state is hallmark of their regimes, in case you are not aware. These regional so-called-leaders have wasted 3 decades of opportunity. But, their story is over for at least a decade. An Indian govt. is going to ascend the throne of Delhi.

    Then, you do not know RSS & their ethos. Caste is not much of a factor, irrespective of what your pre-conceived notions are.

    It is RSS which sidelined Advani when Advani erred & later, it was RSS that brought Modi to the fore. And before that, Advani was the life-long political mentor & godfather of Modi. Caste is never important in BJP. It is the calibre to galvanize teh cadre & the voters. Modi has that calibre that is why, he is where he is.

    Similarly, Advani had that calibre under whose leadership BJP became "the BJP", as we know it.

    BJP is one those rare meritocratic parties, that is why its fortunes are on upswing.

    No matter how hard you try, you cannot deny, suppress or ignore merit for long. Please do not bring petty caste-ism where there is none.

    And, why this persistent persecution complex till date ?

    When you justify corruption done by Mayawati, how much better you are than @happy who justifies it when it was done by Christians ?

    Sheer hypocrisy & double-standards at play. Why cannot you be an Indian first & a Tamil/Dalit or whatever, later ?

    Unless educated, elite Indians like you get rid of this petty caste-ist & regional chauvinism + persecution paranoia, there is little hope for India- Modi or no Modi, does not matter.
     
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  9. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    No, both are a curse for India, equally disastrous. In fact, regional parties are catastrophic, themselves .
     
  10. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    I am not a Dalit and I have not justified corruption by Mayawati anywhere. Certainly she was much better than the CONgi thugs when it comes to corruption and yet media was specially merciless in fleecing her. I dont see such a negative portrayal of CONs for their proportion of corruption. Its because she was a Dalit. You can deny all you want. I dont care

    Persecution complex? Seriously you people should stop thinking that we are idiots. My uncle is a high ranking IIS officer who has worked in PMO during Vajpayee's period and he has several stories of what high level BJP functioning was like during that period. Dont sell to me the BS that there is no castism in BJP/BJP govt. While Congis are closet brahminists, BJP was/is openly brahminist. But there seem to be signs of improvement now that there are several OBC/SC leaders coming into BJP.

    And dont bring in RSS . I know its very nationalistic organisation

    And the educated like us have seen the discrimination thrown by the UCs in the central institutes. I personally know several seniors who have quit from AIIMS citing discrimination based on caste. SO sorry, unless UCs stop their castism, lower castes wont stop it
     
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  11. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Shivraj Singh Chauhan an OBC ? :wat:
    If you're talking about MP's Chief Minister, he is a Rajput.

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
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  12. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    1. For first highlighted line, I think that @Virendra and @civfanatic have more knowledge of history than me but perhaps in certain areas like Mauryans and some aspects of skt literature, I can debate with anyone on this forum with ease.

    2. Second highlighted line is totally wrong. I just do not post for sake of it. I believe what I write with utmost conviction and fully recognize that my views may be wrong and I may be confused( who is not?), but I have as much belief in my ideas as an Islamic Ghazi has on Jehad.
     
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  13. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Is the debate about has Islam ruined AfPak or is the debate about is Islam itself a ruinous culture. Because what you are telling is true only for latter part but the question is former. If the former is the case, then indeed UP/Bihar is the same as AfPak when it comes to the "ruins"
     
  14. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    His jealousy & confused sense of identity owing to extended stay out of India (though, location of residence can only have a limited impact).

    He does not know that Hindi heartland is synonymous with the idea of "India" unlike outlying regions which have their own sense of "nationalism", e.g. Tamil nationalism & Naga nationalism. Hindi heartland is the cradle of Hindu civilization.

    Ever heard of MP-nationalism or UP-nationalism ? :lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  15. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    See this
    http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shivraj%20singh%20chauhan%20is%20an%20obc&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDwQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lensonnews.com%2Flensonarticles%2F2%2F12%2F10432%2F1%2Fregime-changers%3A-emergence-of-obcs-as-a-decisive-factor-in-polls.html&ei=4NxDU9GDKM-GrAfL6oCoBA&usg=AFQjCNF09OV5CjfOawkhBViC0tX7_6sbhA&bvm=bv.64367178,d.bmk
    http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shivraj%20singh%20chauhan%20is%20an%20obc&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDwQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lensonnews.com%2Flensonarticles%2F2%2F12%2F10432%2F1%2Fregime-changers%3A-emergence-of-obcs-as-a-decisive-factor-in-polls.html&ei=4NxDU9GDKM-GrAfL6oCoBA&usg=AFQjCNF09OV5CjfOawkhBViC0tX7_6sbhA&bvm=bv.64367178,d.bmk


    http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shivraj%20singh%20chauhan%20is%20an%20obc&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftimesofindia.indiatimes.com%2Findia%2FShivraj-Singh-Chouhan-an-astute-OBC-leader-from-the-masses%2Farticleshow%2F20387249.cms&ei=4NxDU9GDKM-GrAfL6oCoBA&usg=AFQjCNEU8msAaP0uyypMqwxInYS_e-5Aeg&bvm=bv.64367178,d.bmk


    http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shivraj%20singh%20chauhan%20is%20an%20obc&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEMQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fportal.bsnl.in%2Fbsnl%2Fasp%2Fcontent%2520mgmt%2Fhtml%2520content%2Fhotnews%2Fhotnews57210.html&ei=4NxDU9GDKM-GrAfL6oCoBA&usg=AFQjCNFqckhVETjDsiHPHRzfnw0prni04A&bvm=bv.64367178,d.bmk


    There are people in my part who are "Nuniya" and claim Chauhan surname. Similarly ex mayor of my city was a kunbi, but had surname Singh.
    In Bihar, sonars and Kunbis use Singh surname. Shivraj Singh Chauhan is not a Rajput( by birth not but by his great administartion he is certainly a kshatriya:rofl:) and I do not know how this myth exists.
     
  16. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    See this
    http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shivraj%20singh%20chauhan%20is%20an%20obc&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDwQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lensonnews.com%2Flensonarticles%2F2%2F12%2F10432%2F1%2Fregime-changers%3A-emergence-of-obcs-as-a-decisive-factor-in-polls.html&ei=4NxDU9GDKM-GrAfL6oCoBA&usg=AFQjCNF09OV5CjfOawkhBViC0tX7_6sbhA&bvm=bv.64367178,d.bmk
    http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shivraj%20singh%20chauhan%20is%20an%20obc&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDwQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lensonnews.com%2Flensonarticles%2F2%2F12%2F10432%2F1%2Fregime-changers%3A-emergence-of-obcs-as-a-decisive-factor-in-polls.html&ei=4NxDU9GDKM-GrAfL6oCoBA&usg=AFQjCNF09OV5CjfOawkhBViC0tX7_6sbhA&bvm=bv.64367178,d.bmk


    http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shivraj%20singh%20chauhan%20is%20an%20obc&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftimesofindia.indiatimes.com%2Findia%2FShivraj-Singh-Chouhan-an-astute-OBC-leader-from-the-masses%2Farticleshow%2F20387249.cms&ei=4NxDU9GDKM-GrAfL6oCoBA&usg=AFQjCNEU8msAaP0uyypMqwxInYS_e-5Aeg&bvm=bv.64367178,d.bmk


    http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shivraj%20singh%20chauhan%20is%20an%20obc&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEMQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fportal.bsnl.in%2Fbsnl%2Fasp%2Fcontent%2520mgmt%2Fhtml%2520content%2Fhotnews%2Fhotnews57210.html&ei=4NxDU9GDKM-GrAfL6oCoBA&usg=AFQjCNFqckhVETjDsiHPHRzfnw0prni04A&bvm=bv.64367178,d.bmk


    There are people in my part who are "Nuniya" and claim Chauhan surname. Similarly ex mayor of my city was a kunbi, but had surname Singh.
    In Bihar, sonars and Kunbis use Singh surname. Shivraj Singh Chauhan is not a Rajput( by birth not but by his great administartion he is certainly a kshatriya:rofl:) and I do not know how this myth exists.
     
  17. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Yes, because lower castes and Dalits cant be good administrators right? Only Kshatriyas can be good administrators:sarcastic:

    Talk about upper caste shit fukcery :rolleyes:
     
  18. Pratap

    Pratap Tihar Jail Banned

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    Are you complete idiot? The very fact that I have called Shivraj Singh as good administrator means that I do not hold your narrow and tribal outlook.
    I do not use terms like"lower castes" but if OBCs like Shivraj Singh and Modi are proving to be great administartors and someone calls them true kshatriyas, what is wrong about it?
     
  19. TrueSpirit1

    TrueSpirit1 The Nobody Banned

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    Throughout this post, you are justifying corruption done by her.

    Behan Mayawati & Netaji Mulla-yam are both arms of Congress. Why do you refuse to see this ? Please do not obfuscate this political reality. Both are a curse upon us. Btw, you can have Behan Mayawati for all we care. UP would be much better-off without her.

    In case you do not know, entire Ram Mandir movement since the inception of BJP (on national landscape) was led by OBC leaders-Vinay Katiyar, Uma Bharti, Kalyan Singh (&, many more) were all stalwart OBC leaders.

    Now, Modi (another, OBC) has clipped the wings of several of these OBC leaders & sidelined them for good, since some of these leaders are past their sell-date.

    It is all about caliber & relevance in today's competitive world. You become redundant the moment you outlive your utility.

    Please do not bring the caste-angle when there is none. If you have to keep harping caste-caste-caste-la la la, stop quoting me.

    It is a dog-eat-dog world. Stay relevant or Perish. Peform or Perish.

    Does this simple reality need to literally dictated to you ?
     
  20. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    You people have lost any kind of objective reasoning. OK lets have it your way, UP/Bihar is paragon of civilisations now rivaling western nations and are not backward like AfPak. Happy now?:lol:
     
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