Dalai Lama's Thank You India Address

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by ShyAngel, Apr 5, 2009.

  1. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    True but if you want to trust the politicians, you are in for a shock. There was a whole flurry of articles last year that repeatedly pointed out Chinese incursions deep into Indian territory(AP) and yet all the Indian Govt. did was to raise some meek objections. Look, I am not saying that we should throw caution to the winds and run to confront China, what we have to do is to put a brave face forward and let them know that we cannot be bullied about. While it is true that Israel has the unconditional support of America, not once did they get even a single American or a NATO soldier to defend their soil. Yet, they are doing pretty good aren't they.
    Half the battle is deterrence and that goes hand in hand with the policy of "Talk soft but carry a big stick"...India did the former but neglected the latter. That is what we have to fix...we have to fix the infrastructure in the northern regions...logistically, the Chinese have us at a severe disadvantage there
     
  2. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes, I agree that Chinese incursions into Indian territory are unacceptable and we should give a proportionate response, but not jeopardize the relationship by completely reversing our position on Tibet.

    Also, US support for Israel is unparalleled. It gets billion of dollars in military aid, it gets technology and it gets to not only build American weapons but research, develop and export them back. Its a seamless relationship that only stops at actual US boots on Israeli soil. You have to realize this.
    Of course, its entirely to Israel's credit that they are able to achieve this.

    I completely agree. If we are using mules to transport troop rations while the Chinese zoom in on expressways, we have no business talking about Tibet. It would be foolish.
     
  3. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    yesterday i wrote about the importance of prc to india and the necessity for india to have good relations with prc. today will try and examine how india can force prc to its terms if it ever were to come to that. as of date prc has no reasons to listen to india be it on the border incursions or the tibet issue for all our successive governments have done is meekly surrender to the thought that prc can not be taken head on. the key to any negotiation is to make your own position strong and then create a situation where the other party is forced to come to the negotiation table, so one can only gain if the concerned party negotiates from a position of strength.


    to begin with one has to understand why we are in a situation where we are. one big reason that one comes across is the personality cult that existed in india in the nehru era, he then was hailed as one of the biggest statesman ever and he always thought that by building personal rapport with leaders across the globe he could solve any given problem at hand and never thought of having a strong army and war as a tool of diplomacy. the result of this rather faulty policy saw our land being occupied by the pla when nehru always thought that panchsheel and the slogan hindi chini bhai bhai could win the hearts of the chinese leadership and nehru completely blinded by the aura of his policies could not see the writing on the wall even when there were clear signals emerging from prc that they could attack india. this just shows how poor a vision and a clear defeatist attitude nehru had on certain issues.


    today prc has no need to go in for a direct confrontation with india because if they were to do that then their ambitions of being a hyper power also diminish big time. they played it rather smartly and post 1962 they propped up pakistan to tackle their common enemy india. today's pakistan acts as a proxy to prc which has squarely been used to further its agenda, and this has gone to the extent that prc became a major proliferator of nuke technology to pakistan, the missile technology in collaboration with dprk was handed over to pak, and much much more. the first thing for india to concentrate is pakistan, some believe we can help pakistan and then hope some sanity prevails there and they make friendly gestures to us, this is too good a dream to come true for there are too many vested interests to let any such thing happen. the one solution to this is make sure pakistan is so busy in its internal problems that they do not have time to think external stuff, eventually for this strategy to be successful disintegration of paksian is a must and in a way that the new governments formed in each state are dependent on india and they have valid reasons to have good relations with us. if this front were to be neutralised this way then that would be a big victory for india and a shocking defeat to prc and its policy of string of pearls as all other such countries that want to be a part of any such strategy against india would be very wary of taking a plunge into any such act. this would make prc very jittery.


    US and russia become very important factors to this solution of tackling prc. it has to be drilled real down in the mind sets of the think tanks of the US that prc a communist nation is a major challenge to the very existence of the US and till the time this is not done successfully till then it will get very difficult for us to get US in containing and tackling prc. a fear psychosis has to be created and they have to be continuously reminded about the past atrocities of prc and their ever growing ambitions of more land acquisitions. india further needs to get russia on board, they have to be made to understand that a hyper power prc can never be in their interest and what if tomorrow once prc reaches that level they start claiming the whole of siberia for its huge natural resources or by changing the demography of that area by means of illegal migration and then cause a situation of internal unrest. if we are successful in getting both the US and russia reach a common ground on containing prc the position of prc dramatically decreases and our stake increases so does our position as a regional and global player which would further threaten prc from its current strong position.


    the most obvious way to tackle them directly is to concentrate on our military build up and create it to such an extent that prc feels threatened not only qualitatively but also quantitatively, along with this their economy has to be contained, probably create a situation with the help of other leading powers where they are in a situation of utter chaos internally and the very communism they have thrived on gets challenged by the people of that country. all this is a very heady mix of cocktail which once unleashed from all sides creates a serious panic situation for the prc and we would be able to bring them down on their knees. once we can do this then our diplomats and our politicians alike can go ahead on the rhetoric of claiming back all our territory that has been occupied by prc as also the tibet issue and then force them to a negotiation table.

    PS : we always have the option of going ahead with a war with them but today there will be massive causalities and we need to come to a situation where our loss is the least and still be are able to achieve our objectives that we set out to achieve in the first place.
     
  4. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    perfectly put ritesh. very chanakian. lol.
    at the same time we must play the tibetan card. we must remember that tibet is the most important one in indo-china relation. some junior minister or someone like that must periodically issue statements in pro-tibet while the senior ministers and PM take the official line. this will send right signals to all concerned.
    also, the very basis of PRC claiming sikkim or AP is tibet, so when we question its occupation of tibet, we are attacking the very base. I still think that accepting tibet as a part of china was a big mistake.
     
  5. Soham

    Soham DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    And how do we create this situation ?
    A conventional confrontation with PRC can be tilted in our favour if we play defensive.
    Unfortunately, an Indian offensive against PRC can prove to be a suicide, unless an exceedingly brilliant strategy can be devised.
    At the current stage Pakistan can be annihilated, because they lack strategic depth. They have no where to escape, the pincers can be tightened around them and with Afghanistan and Iran warming up to us, depending on their will, complete encirclement is a possibility.

    Not so with China. They can always retreat, reinforce, and strike back.
    We'll be stuck like Napoleon was in his Russian invasion.

    I couldn't agree more.
    He lived in an idealistic world. His desire for peace was clearly visible in the Panchsheel agreement, his hyper pursuit of NAM.
    Unfortunately, the world was not ready for peace.
    And we got back-stabbed, resulting in a humiliating defeat. By the time the Indian Army was mobilized for a counter-attack, China retreated. They had come to prove a point, and they did.

    Hmmm....
    You can make a Pakistani do anything but friendship with India.
    I don't see a Pakistan falling anytime soon. Yes, they will become a land of chaos. But when they reach the breaking point, US/NATO will march in from the west, stabilize the country, form a govt. , give them trillions of aid, reconstruct their Army with their most modern weapons and lo! Their stands Pakistan again ! More powerful than ever !
    Its a necessary evil Ritesh, it cannot be destroyed.
    Jinnah didn't work so hard for nothing.



    What you are missing is... US cannot function without China.
    80% of what they use comes from China. Yes, there are alternatives. But none as profitable as China.

    Secondly, China is what balances US & Russia. And this is what makes them so important in the Asian power struggle.

    Both Russia and US need China for their own reasons and both will be at a loss with its loss.
    With a powerful communist China, Russia remains happy with the spread of Communism because Russia is no more the Soviet Union it used to be and it doesn't have the military might to safeguard communism.


    I agree with the economic stranglehold but China functions on an evolved system of communism. It has succeeded where the USSR failed.
    China is playing its cards very cleverly. Unlike, the sudden massive and un-sustainable Military spendings like that of USSR, China is maintaining a constant increase of military spendings along with up-gradation of existing technologies.

    We have a very high budget too if looked from an independent perspective but the manpower crunch becomes a serious problem. At the end of the day, quantity is the best quality.
    50 Abrams might thrash 50 T-90s, but when they are surrounded by 200 T-90s they can't do much but perish.

    The only way to counter China is to build a military infrastructure powerful enough to deter an attack combined with a diplomatic "maskirova" as achieved by Indira Gandhi in '71.
     
  6. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    @sohamsri,
    no matter how much help pak gets from outside, pak will after every few years(30yrs in my opinion) will provide an opportunity for it to be split. the question is do we take it or not.
    pak was carved after splitting india in 1947, then it provided the opportunity in 1971, india(under indira) took it, now 2009, it again gives the opportunity. will we take it?

    this is the time to split pak into paktunistan, balocistan and pak(rest of pak). notice the time frame is around 30yrs. this phenomenon can be seen because the creation os pak had no fundamental strong basic. it was created on a lie for some politicians to gain power.
     
  7. ShyAngel

    ShyAngel Founding Member

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    School children protest naked at Chinese embassy

    School children protest naked at Chinese embassy
    Phayul[Monday, April 13, 2009 14:20]
    By Namgyal Kunga
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    New Delhi, April 13: Outraged by the continuing oppression in Tibet, 10 Tibetan school children staged a naked protest at the heavily guarded Chinese Embassy in the Indian capital. The Tibetan students who had just finished their board exams barged into the embassy premises here to protest against what they called “on-going repression in Tibet and to show their solidarity to the Tibetans inside Tibet who continue to struggle for freedom amid Chinese government's brutal crackdown”.

    The 10 Tibetan children who were in their undergarments chained themselves onto the barbed wire that surrounded the Chinese Embassy and shouted slogans calling for “freedom in Tibet” and “human rights in Tibet.” Nine of them were arrested by the police. The school children did not belong to any political group or NGO.


    “We did this protest to show the Chinese leadership that their repressive policies in Tibet are naked truth no matter how hard they try to hide from the world what Tibetans in Tibet are going through”, said Dorjee Tsetan, a student of Bylakuppe Tibetan Children's Village School.

    The protest comes days after China sentenced two Tibetans, Lobsang Gyaltsen and Loyak, to death for their alleged involvement in last year's protests in Lhasa. Two others, Phuntsok and Kangtsuk, were also sentenced to death but with a two-year reprieve, and Dawa Sangpo was sentenced to life imprisonment.

    “There is an immense crackdown and brutality being imposed on the Tibetan people inside Tibet. Chinese government in their 50 years Occupation of Tibet has failed to respect the sentiments of the Tibetan people. We have lost everything, our homes, families, friends, relatives and even our basic rights to live as human being. We have nothing more to lose”, said Dorjee.


    Rabgyal, another student of the same school, said "We have just finished our class 10th and 12th board examination, and as Tibetans we feel it is our moral responsibility to speak out on behalf of those Tibetans inside Tibet who can't, we have decided to use our vacation positively. To shelve our dignity is the only way we thought we can bring the attention of the world community, which has done little in the last 50 years in supporting us to get back our country."

    "My parents were imprisoned for participating in a peaceful protest last year," said another student, Tsering, "I have no clue about their present condition. I came here to ask the Chinese government to release my parents and all the other innocent Tibetans who were imprisoned for expressing their feelings for Tibet and devotion to His Holiness the Dalai Lama."

    This year marks 50 years of China's Occupation of Tibet. Tibetans both inside Tibet and in exile had to go through an immense suffering of separation.

    “I left Tibet because I was deprived of my right to education, freedom of speech, religion and movement. Thousands of Tibetan children like me cross the Himalayas every year to escape the oppression in Tibet." said Lodoe, another protester, “The oppression must end so that Tibetan parents no longer have to part with their children.”

    “I am thankful to India and the Indian people and this protest is in no way a disrespect to the sentiments of the Indian people. For us, this was the last thing we could do,” he added.
    This story has been read 7732 times.

    http://www.phayul.com/news/article....ool+children+protest+naked+at+Chinese+embassy
     
  8. Soham

    Soham DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    Whats wrong with them ? Why are they stripping in India ?

    While I support a Free Tibet, protesting naked in front of embassies ain't going to make any difference.
     
  9. ShyAngel

    ShyAngel Founding Member

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    Well, that's their way of doing it so and I'm sure there's a reason to that as well. Btw they were trying to reveal china's naked truth that's why......
     

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