Discussion in 'Subcontinent & Central Asia' started by ahmedsid, Mar 10, 2009.
Phil join china? we prefer to die with freedom than die as zombies.
That was the exactly arrangement before 1959. But some of DL's followers were not happy about it and started a military riot. CCP had to mobiilize couple of divisions to crash it. Someone estimated that more than 3000 CCP soliders died. This figure can tell you how many tibetens crossed the red line.
The reason of the riot? CCP tried to set those nobles' slaves free, which is obviously against Tibet culture and traditon in 1950s.
"Tibetans have not adopted violent"? You got kidding me! The insugency war in Tibet continued until 1973, only because the americans put the end to their military aid to Dalai. Do you really believe that Americans can keep recruiting Tibetan youth in india without Dalai lama's support?
This guy didn't put down his weapon for the love of peace. He put down his weapon because he knew he cannot win without amercan support.
The best that Xiangjiang and Tibet can come up is terrorism war instead of insurgency. Can you name me any country that was defeated by terrorists?
KMT was a failure....
when it comes to the issues I mentioned CCP is a failure..
Tamil Tigers are an ethnic group based force.... CCP was secular communist two different scenarios. CCP used KMT in an attrition war against the rampaging Nipponese. If not for world war two and the two rivals(JAP vs KMT) there would be no communist China.. This very important fact is conveniently forgotten in modern Commie China.
Complete rubbish, pulled out of an angst filled Chini teenagers scrawny yellow backside...
BTW try calling a Sikh a weakling/ coward to his face, your hands will be dislocated and shoved up your rear end...
The Chinese won 1962 simply because they realised India's cluless elites had abandoned her Himalayan defences, by the time they reacted it was too late..
Today Beijing will be simply be turned into a giant glass bowl....
get out, please don't bugging us, this thread is for big countries India and China.
Japs became big and took you, US strong then saved you, China becoming big are quieting you and then the SCS may could be controlled by India, they will caste you.
just kidding, my Avatar, Sikh, are full of brave ,gentleman, handsome and tall. who cares Gurkhas.
I think everyone should be allowed to post.
India will not caste anyone, if you mean to say we will treat them as second class people. We believe in equality.
However, there is much truth in what I am interpreting out of your statement. The stronger and influential countries get to call the shots. This is a hard fact.
Scrawny dwarflike Chini soldiers
Comparision with Paki soldiers FOR SCALE
Also the Chicom drones conveniently forget to mention that the Chini army had overwhelming superiority in numbers and modern weapons.....so much for empty boasting.
Can we please stop comparing people? This is getting silly. Both are distinguished in warfare.
There are many other groups, especially Tibetans (many are in ITBP), Manipuris, Nagas, Dogras (some of them are Sikhs too!), etc.. It is usually the mountain people who perform very well in battles because, being from the mountains, they tend to have a smaller body with a exceptionally large heart, good capability to pump more blood in high altitude rarefied regions, strong leg muscles, less fat, and the hereditary trait of surviving in the harsh mountainous regions.
And this is another utterly silly post.
Sure they are dwarf like, so what? One of our commanders who trained us was a Gurkha gentleman from the 49th Bengal Battalion of the Gurkha Regiment. He was short, skinny, and insignificant. Yet, his handshake was like an iron mangle. I was taller than him, yet, I am pretty sure, he could take on 5 people like me single handed. Being dwarf in size does not matter.
Try to be mature, please.
These cretins are brave only behind a keyboard
I meant no disrespect to the Gurkhas but that Chini with the tall tales of Chinese bravery needed putting down...
He has been sent to Tihar Jail for being disrespectful. Even if Chinese, or Pakistani, or whatever, short stature does not indicate weakness. That was my point. Anyway, let's get back to topic.
So why is Tibet important to PRC?
Stop Mining in Tibet | Tibet's Resources Belong to Tibetans
Poor thecurryguy totaly has no idea what Sikhs are.
no mention in Indian, even they are many state's governor in US, if he go to US, take a taxi, the taxi driver(most are Sikh) will wring his neck down.
have fun in Tihar Jail , thecurryguy
anyway, Chinese should hire more Sikhs for deal with East Turkistan Islamic instead of those Scrawny dwarflike soldiers
When this happens, Chinese cultural system will be ridiculed in front of world community, where world will praise Tibet's religious & cultural ethos and chinese communist systems and its Human rights records will get the beating. One country Two System formula will be detrimental to communists socio-cultural policies.
When curryguy meets a Sikh and the Sikh bamboos him, he will know which side they butter!
What should China do to Tibet?
Self immolation seems to be a Buddhi8st way of protest.
IIRC, it was also done in South Vietnam against the Govt there.
It appears that, notwithstanding the Chinese claims and sops of better financial times, the Tibetans just dislike the Chinese.
It must be very frustrating to the Chinese that even though the Chinese have done much to improve the infrastructure, financial status, bringing modernity, the Tibetans just fail to appreciate this and instead want Independence.
Even the fear of the Chinese Secret Police does not deter the Tibetans!
One wonders what should China do so that the Tibetans are as happy as the Chinese propaganda posters would like to portray?
It is a Catch 22 for China.
Re: What should China do to Tibet?
China needs Dalai Lama
By Claude Arpi | Daily Pioneer
ON THE WEB, 27 May 2012
In March 2012, reported the Chinese-sponsored Tibet Daily, Hu Jintao encouraged a Tibetan delegation to promote the â€œold Tibetan spiritâ€ when it met the President during the annual National Peopleâ€™s Conference. Hu explained: â€œIt is necessary to be firm on anti-secession.â€ He said that the Party in Tibet must â€œclean up and regulate religious activities, strengthen the development of Tibetâ€™s Buddhist institutes, tighten management of the reincarnation of living Buddhasâ€. Outside China, the Chinese Presidentâ€™s words were read to mean more restriction and repression. Hu also told the delegates that they needed to recruit and train Party leaders who were â€œpolitically reliable, capable of safeguarding national unity, firm on anti-secession, and who dare to fight against the%2
Re: What should China do to Tibet?
I support Tibetan effort for independence and freedom: Harry Wu
By Lobsang Wangyal | Tibet Sun
Harry Wu is one of the most prominent activists for human rights in the Peopleâ€™s Republic of China. Wu spent 19 years in Chinese labour camps. In 1992, he founded the Laogai Research Foundation â€” which gathers information about forced-labour in Chinese prisons. Wu is currently the Executive Director of the Foundation. He has authored several books including the 1996 Troublemaker: one manâ€™s crusade against Chinaâ€™s cruelty. He now lives in the United States but continues to risk his life to expose Beijingâ€™s human rights abuses. Following are Wuâ€™s answers to a set of questions after he agreed to do an e-mail interview.
You were in Dharamshala and met with the Dalai Lama, Kalon Tripa and many others. Whatâ€™s your impression of the capital of the Tibetan Diaspora and the Tibetan community in general?
My impression of the capital of the Tibetan diaspora is that it has preserved and protected the traditional religion and culture of Tibetans. This is important, especially because Tibetan culture is being lost in the Tibetan homeland due to the Chinese governmentâ€™s ever oppressive policies.
Tibetans are still sufferingâ€”even though they may not be in China. Nepal, for example, is thought by many Tibetans fleeing Chinese persecution to be a refuge. In reality, the Chinese communist government continues to hand the Nepalese national government â€œaidâ€ to turn away Tibetans attempting to cross its border and to deny refugee documents to those who make it across. Even for those allowed to remain in Nepal, though, oppression follows. Tibetans in Nepal are often followed by Chinese-trained spies. Their phone calls and emails are monitored and their lives along with the lives of their loved ones are often threatened by Nepalese police officers on orders from the Chinese.
You have seen Kalon Tripa, Lobsang Sangay, speak on the Tibetan uprising day on 10 March. Whatâ€™s your impression of the Kalon Tripa and his administration?
The Kalon Tripa and his administration are a new face for Tibetâ€™s continuing struggle against oppression. He and his administration are learned and focused on freeing Tibet from oppression. I support their efforts wholeheartedly because I know they have the ability to work for a better Tibet.
Thirty two Tibetans in Tibet and one in exile in India have self-immolated to protest against the Chinese rule. What are your views with regard to these self-immolations?
Tibetâ€™s future and freedom depends on the lives of all Tibetans. This is why the ongoing spate of self-immolations has moved me deeply. I think it presages future unrest and marks a boiling point in Sino-Tibetan relations. These self-immolations show a Tibet exasperated and crying out for real help, not just empty promises. These self-immolations beg world leaders to take off the mask of economics and to speak truthfully about human rights. When Tibetans who have escaped China still set themselves afire, the world needs to quickly realize that the Tibet issue extends much further than â€œChinaâ€™sâ€ borders.
The self-immolation of Tibetans paints a completely different picture of Tibet than the one China puts forward in its propaganda. Why does China continue to ignore the reality?
China does not ignore this reality. Rather, China has worked hard to prevent this reality from becoming mainstream, andâ€”to a large extentâ€”Chinaâ€™s efforts have succeeded. Despite the more than thirty Tibetans who have set themselves afireâ€”many severely injuring themselves or even dyingâ€”the world remains eerily silent in the face of economic and other relations. However, China can only continue dangling their economy in front of us at the expense of human rights and at the expense of Tibet only insofar as we let them.
Why is the Chinese government not responding to calls from its own people and other nationalities such as Tibet, East Turkistan and the rest of the world for changing the system? How do you think the CCP is benefitting from keeping the current system?
The CCP views these calls for change as challenges to their rule, not as a people asking for fundamental rights. China labels these people terrorists and separatists to undermine their credibility to the rest of the world, andâ€”when these peopleâ€™s ideologies diverge from the party lineâ€”they are imprisoned, tortured, and effectively silenced. The CCP benefits from the current system in many ways, althoughâ€”arguably the most prevalent wayâ€”the CCP uses the free labour provided by dissidents imprisoned in the Laogai to prop up its economy.
This, in turn, leads to a strengthening of inter-state relations, as states vie for access to the Chinese market. Human rights, on the other hand, are not forgotten, but they are also not given enough importance in the face of trade.
What are the prospects for China ever moving to democracy?
China will never know democracy until the CCP relinquishes its hold on every facet of Chinese society. However, the Chinese people long for openness and accountability from their officials now, so I think China is one step closer to democracy in this regard.
Do you have a vision of how China could take steps towards democracy?
The first step towards a democratic China is to be open and willing to change. Only then can elections, free speech, religion, assembly, petition, and other fundamental staples of democracy be realized.
In a democratic China, do you think the Tibetan issue could be resolved in a way that fulfills the aspirations of the Tibetan people?
If China were democratic, I do think the Tibetan issue could be resolved in a way that fulfills the aspirations of the Tibetan people.
After all, with democracy, Tibetans will have a say in their future and be able to pursue what the Dalai Lama has called the â€œthe middle way.â€
China has its own position about Tibet and Tibetans have a different one. What are your views with regard to Tibet and the Tibetan movement?
The world has offered empty promise after empty promise to the people of Tibet. The Tibetan movement is still alive and strong in the hearts and minds of many Tibetans, andâ€”as alwaysâ€”I support their effort for independence and freedom.
China calls the Dalai Lama all kinds of bad names such as â€œsplittist,â€ â€œdemon,â€ â€œwolf in monkâ€™s robes,â€ etc. You have met the Dalai Lama. What do you think about him?
I certainly do not think the Dalai Lama is a â€œsplittist, demon, wolf in monkâ€™s clothing,â€ or otherwise. The Dalai Lama is a leader only wishing good for his people, as well as the people around the world. Long live Tibet!
I support Tibetan effort for independence and freedom: Harry Wu .:. Tibet Sun
Re: What should China do to Tibet?
Tibet's great opportunity
By Gwynne Dyer | Embassy
ON THE WEB, 19 May 2012
The number of Tibetans burning themselves to death in protests against Chinese policy has grown very fast recently: the first self-immolation was in 2009, but 22 of the 30 incidents happened in the past year.
And while at first it was only Buddhist monks and nuns who were setting themselves on fire, in the past month both a teenage girl and a mother of four have chosen to die in this gruesome way.
The Chinese response has been repression and abuse. The affected provinces have been flooded with security forces, and Communist Party officials have condemned the protesters as anarchists, terrorists and rebelsâ€”or, in the words of one official, â€œratsâ€ born of â€œweaselsâ€.
The state-controlled media claim that the deaths are orchestrated by the Dalai Lama, the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism, who has lived in exile in India since 1959. They also insist that the Dalai Lamaâ€™s real goal is separatismâ€”the revival of the independent Tibet that existed until the Chinese troops marched back in 1951â€”although the protesters themselves demand only the return of the Dalai Lama and respect for their culture and religion.
The Chinese media work themselves up into a lather of indignation about the alleged intention of these â€œseparatistsâ€ not only to fracture the sacred unity of the Chinese homeland, but to expel the large number of Han Chinese settlers who have immigrated to Tibet. As the Xinhua News Agency put it: â€œHow similar it is to the Holocaust committed by Hitler on the Jews!â€
Well, not similar at all, really. Even though many Tibetans fear â€œcultural genocideâ€ if the Han Chinese immigrants become a majority in Tibet (and they are probably right to suspect that this is why Beijing subsidises the immigration), there is still a distinction between Panzer divisions and extermination camps on the one hand, and monks and teenage girls burning themselves to death on the other.
Meanwhile, the Dalai Lama goes on doing what he does best: he keeps Tibet before the worldâ€™s attention. As part of that process he visits world leaders and collects various honours like the Nobel Peace Prizeâ€”and he never attacks the Chinese regime directly.
Instead, he patiently and politely insists that China must respect Tibetâ€™s cultural and religious autonomy. He never demands Tibetan independence, nor does he let his followers in the large Tibetan exile community talk about independence. And, of course, he laments the self-immolations.
Yet the Dalai Lama also believes that he will one day return to Tibet. He is 76 years old, but he is in good health, â€œso I am expecting another 10, 20 years,â€ he told a BBC interviewer this week. â€œWithin that (time), definitely things will changeâ€.
What does he think will change? Surely not the attitude of the Chinese Communist regime, which will never allow him to return to Tibet since it fears that would unleash a great wave of anti-Chinese nationalism. Well, then, he must think the Chinese regime itself will eventually change.
Of course he does. Most people who know any history think that. Despite the death of Communist ideology in China, the regime has managed to stay in power for almost a quarter-century since the Tienanmen Square protests of 1989, but it has been helped by continuous, high-speed economic growth. Would it survive a major recession?
Nobody knows, but there is certainly a reasonable chance of regime change in China in the next 10 or 20 years. And that would be Tibetâ€™s great opportunity, as the Dalai Lama must know.
The precedent is what happened when Communist Party rule ended in the old Soviet Union twenty-one years ago. The Soviet Union was the old Russian empire under a new name, and only about half of its population was ethnically Russian. When it collapsed, all the republics with non-Russian majorities took their independence.
The Peopleâ€™s Republic of China is more homogeneous: 90 per cent of its population is Han Chinese. But in the few areas that still have non-Chinese majorities, like Tibet, separation would be possible when regime change happens in Beijingâ€”on two conditions. It would have to happen fast, and it can only happen if the Chinese people do not see Tibetans as enemies.
It has to happen fast because the window of opportunity doesnâ€™t stay open long: once a new regime is firmly established, no politician who wants a long career will take the blame for negotiating â€œthe division of the motherland.â€ And if the Chinese worry that an independent Tibet would fall under the influence of their great Asian rival, India, or if they are under attack by Tibetan terrorists, they will be very reluctant to let the Tibetans go.
The Dalai Lama certainly knows all this, too. His job, therefore, is to keep the spirits of the Tibetans up while waiting for the window of opportunity to openâ€”and to keep the impatient younger generation from launching some futile â€œwar of liberationâ€ involving terrorist attacks in the meantime.
He has been successful in that for a long time, but the wave of self-immolations is a warning that patience may be running out.
About the author
Gwynne Dyer is a London-based independent journalist who writes a weekly column for the print version of Embassy.
Tibet's great opportunity .:. Tibet Sun
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