Comparative study of Indian Air Force and Pakistan Air Force

StealthSniper

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Guys, I think we all are ignoring the fact that the IAF does not have much of a specialized long range bomber wing....... I seriously think IAF should have at least 20-25 long range bombers of the type like B-1 Lancer, or TU-160 with the capability to carry long range nuclear-capable stand alone cruise missiles on board..... these can be the best platform for the aerial version of the Brahmos currently under development for the IAF.......

Not going to happen, I think India was offered the BlackJack but India didn't go for them. For me I like India to have Bombers for the large strike capability but also for a deterrent against other countries. India doesn't have the infrastructure for the Tu-160 and the B1-B Lancer will never be offered to India from the Americans because of the technology in the planes. But like I mentioned in the Bomber thread, the Su-34 bomber is a very good option that India should consider.
 

proud_hindustani

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Not going to happen, I think India was offered the BlackJack but India didn't go for them. For me I like India to have Bombers for the large strike capability but also for a deterrent against other countries. India doesn't have the infrastructure for the Tu-160 and the B1-B Lancer will never be offered to India from the Americans because of the technology in the planes. But like I mentioned in the Bomber thread, the Su-34 bomber is a very good option that India should consider.
Blackjack and tupolev tu-160 are deadlier bombers. it would make zardaari pee in his pant
 

bsn4u1985

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long range bombers should be needed to counter china not pakistan.pakistan ha s gone past now we don't have to destroy pakistan they will eventually destroy themselves....but we have to worry about china..
 

Soham

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dude yes India Air Force is powerful but it's hard to say that It's superior. PAF has less aircrafts than India but their pilots are trained very well and they are highly skilled. Indian pilots are not trained well like PAF pilots get. In 1965 wars, they shot down more of our jets. Also IAF has high numbers of Crash rate.

It's essential that IAF pilots get excellent training and become able to face any situation. I am sure Chinese are also well trained.
Nonsense.

Yes, 1965 was an example of better Pakistani training,
but you overlook the massive reforms in the Indian training since then, the results of which have been evident in all wars since.
What do you think was the factor behind Gnats downing their prized Sabres ?

Secondly, the crashes have hardly been due to pilot errors. There origins have always been traced to the very old machines, lack of spares and their compromise on quality.
 

ZOOM

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dude yes India Air Force is powerful but it's hard to say that It's superior. PAF has less aircrafts than India but their pilots are trained very well and they are highly skilled. Indian pilots are not trained well like PAF pilots get. In 1965 wars, they shot down more of our jets. Also IAF has high numbers of Crash rate.
May I know which thrashy source are you referring to in your process to make an equally thrashy comments? You must be referring to Pak's fictious story tellers which they employed not only from their AF, but also need to spend extra amt to hire foriegn story teller.


It's essential that IAF pilots get excellent training and become able to face any situation. I am sure Chinese are also well trained.
I can smell presence of either Pakistani or Chinese disguised in Indian user name.
 

sandeepdg

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dude yes India Air Force is powerful but it's hard to say that It's superior. PAF has less aircrafts than India but their pilots are trained very well and they are highly skilled. Indian pilots are not trained well like PAF pilots get. In 1965 wars, they shot down more of our jets. Also IAF has high numbers of Crash rate.

It's essential that IAF pilots get excellent training and become able to face any situation. I am sure Chinese are also well trained.
You sound more like a Pakistani speaking out all this trash !! What happened in 65' is way back and 4 decades have passed since then. When the Americans came to India for exercises during Cope India 04 & 05, they were outclassed by our pilots in war games of all sorts even though in Cope India 2004, it was the first time when IAF was using an AWACS (American one). This has been claimed by various senior officers of the USAF themselves who said that they clearly underestimated the IAF and that the IAF is more professional force than the USAF itself. Not only this, IAF has given tough times to the RAF flying their Tornadoes and EF-2000s and the French in their Rafales, not to mention the USAF in their F-16s and F-15s with our MKIs, Mirage-2000 and Migs. Read the IAF thread Under Military History and Warheroes !
 

blade

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You sound more like a Pakistani speaking out all this trash !! What happened in 65' is way back and 4 decades have passed since then. When the Americans came to India for exercises during Cope India 04 & 05, they were outclassed by our pilots in war games of all sorts even though in Cope India 2004, it was the first time when IAF was using an AWACS (American one). This has been claimed by various senior officers of the USAF themselves who said that they clearly underestimated the IAF and that the IAF is more professional force than the USAF itself. Not only this, IAF has given tough times to the RAF flying their Tornadoes and EF-2000s and the French in their Rafales, not to mention the USAF in their F-16s and F-15s with our MKIs, Mirage-2000 and Migs. Read the IAF thread Under Military History and Warheroes !
I am sorry to say this but comparing IAF with PAF is nothing but a very poor show of Indian tiny mentality. With a proper upgradation, the level that was achived by india airforce around 2004, if supplimented by further similar upgradation in the comming years is enough to prvent and inflict a very serious damage to PAF even after 10 years frm now . "WE DONT NEED ANY MRCA OR 300 SU 30 MKI TO STAND AGAINST PAF ".
I am not underestimating PAF but going by the hardcore facts on the ground.
In most of the defence analysis, forums and other reports make a very systematic mistake of comparing future pakistani fleet with present IAF.
I will tell a lot about comparing PAF with IAF but before that i need answars for a few questions.

1. Approximately how many BVR capable jets are available with PAF as on 17.11.09?
2. How many AWACS PAF has currently as on 17.11.09?
3. How do you rate the upgradation pakage installed in pakistani mirage III & mig 21s( chinese version) compared to the indo israeli pakage?
4. Where do you think Pakistani AD stands compared to indian AD with around one lac surface to air missiles?
5. After a wide range of indigenous and JV success by DRDO where do you think PAF stands as far as ground based radar systems are concerned?
6. How many fighters pakistan has on 17.11.09 to stand against Su 30 mki ( just tell me the quality and brand no matter even if its in very small number )
7. Now one more very importent question for everyone--- kindly tell me how mant jets pakistan has right on today which can give a good fight against mig 21 bisons ?

A FEW POINTS TO REMEMBER : 1. just a pack of 100 odd su 30 mki has more fire power than a joint force comprized of (indo pak) multirole combatants at its present form.( leave the dedicated bombers out of this from bothside ) [ALL mig 29, mig 21, f 16s, mirage 2000, III,IV, a few jf 17, jh 7]. If anyone has a doubt plz do the simple calculations. thank you

2. Perhaps many have forgotten that long time back india made a break through in laser guidence technology. Almost every fighters in indian inventory has the capability to fire laser guided rockets (not missiles and bombs. only M 2000 has the later capability). This dramatically improves A2G performance.

3. The most vital part, which will take all the clandestine planning and upgradation into account will be the budget. Kindly tell us the yearly basis AF budget comparison between IAF & PAF.

4. In 1965 I was not born. India use to transport its satelites in bullockcart during 70's " check the speech of canadian PM". We had no IM in chess.
So dont we realize that when Anand is world champion, i am posting in forums, UK using indian platform for its satelites its too late to comapre indian air force of 65 with the one in 2009?

5. Buying 500 AMRAM dosnt mean an immidiate installation of them on every aircraft starting from trainer to cargo planes , Mirage III to all the f 16's. It needs sophisticated software and hardware modification. Most of the PAF jets are not even capable of taking these modifications even if they hv the needed fund to do it.

6. Even mig 21 bisons are GPS enabled & with significant rear side scanning capability + limited bvr with 80 range kopyo radar. Even if considered to have a good 50/60 km range BVR spacific detection hardly have any answar from Pakistani side.
 

Soham

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This has been claimed by various senior officers of the USAF themselves who said that they clearly underestimated the IAF and that the IAF is more professional force than the USAF itself. Not only this, IAF has given tough times to the RAF flying their Tornadoes and EF-2000s and the French in their Rafales, not to mention the USAF in their F-16s and F-15s with our MKIs, Mirage-2000 and Migs. Read the IAF thread Under Military History and Warheroes !
Don't go overboard with comparison of the degree of professionalism.
We are a good air force, but still have a long way to go.

Comments come and pass. The opposite of statements in bold have also been quoted in the past.

And lets not start branding people as the citizens of another country on the basis of a comment. People can always have misconceptions. Our Admin team is enough to trace the IPs and draw the conclusions on his location.
 

proud_hindustani

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May I know which thrashy source are you referring to in your process to make an equally thrashy comments? You must be referring to Pak's fictious story tellers which they employed not only from their AF, but also need to spend extra amt to hire foriegn story teller.




I can smell presence of either Pakistani or Chinese disguised in Indian user name.
I have seen many sites based on the quality of IAF and PAF. Also I have seen a lot of pakistani saying that their PAF are deadlier and professional than IAF on another forum.

I admit that I am not clued up about military like you. This is why I am on here to get to know about Indian military strength as well as world's military strength

I am not a Pakistani. I am a pure Indian born in New Delhi and I am proud of my mother India. Jai Hind :india:
 

proud_hindustani

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You sound more like a Pakistani speaking out all this trash !! What happened in 65' is way back and 4 decades have passed since then. When the Americans came to India for exercises during Cope India 04 & 05, they were outclassed by our pilots in war games of all sorts even though in Cope India 2004, it was the first time when IAF was using an AWACS (American one). This has been claimed by various senior officers of the USAF themselves who said that they clearly underestimated the IAF and that the IAF is more professional force than the USAF itself. Not only this, IAF has given tough times to the RAF flying their Tornadoes and EF-2000s and the French in their Rafales, not to mention the USAF in their F-16s and F-15s with our MKIs, Mirage-2000 and Migs. Read the IAF thread Under Military History and Warheroes !
No I don't sound like Pakistan. Whatever I said was after my research on comparison between IAF and PAF.

Yes I know USAF pilots said that IAF are professionally trained. Someone told me that A US pilot said whoever messes with IAF, won't go back home. I was delighted to know this. :india:
 

Sabir

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Actually he was mentioning the IAF pilots who stunned them in cope 2004 saying "whoever will mess with them may not go back home". May be they were intentionally projecting that US air-force is no more invincible to procure funds for new fighter developments (Ex- F-22)

But I have one doubt Army men are not politicians. Can they declare their own defeat if it is not true just for sake of funds. They care for their ego I think rather than such tactics.

About Pakistani story I want to tell one thing...in 1971 their government and media made them believe that they were wining the war actually until Bangladesh was born. Facing the bitter truth people came to street that actually threw the General from the thorn.

About their Air-force they have created lot of myths too.
 

blade

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China Looks to Undermine U.S. Power, With ‘Assassin’s Mace’
By David Hambling July 2, 2009 | 4:32 pm | Categories: China, Miscellaneous, Spies, Secrecy and Surveillance


Could China wipe out an American military advantage with a simple black box? Joshua Cooper Ramo’s thought-provoking book The Age of the Unthinkable challenges all kinds of conventional thinking about everything from venture capital to military strategy. One section caught my eye in particular, about how the Chinese might neutralize American air superiority, using a type of weapon known an “Assassin’s Mace.” The specific device in question is an unassuming little case; how worried should we be?

U.S. airpower depends on the ability to overcome surface-to-air missile (SAM) defenses, and one of the key weapons for this role is the AGM-88 High Speed Anti-radiation Missile (HARM), which homes in on radar emissions. (You can see them, under the F/A-18’s wings in the picture, above.) The defenders can either turn off their radar, thus blinding themselves, or have it destroyed. This is where the black box that Ramo found at a military trade show in Zhuhai in 2002 comes in:

“…packed inside were several thousand microtransmitters and when you plugged the device in and turned it on, it broadcast signals - 10,000 of them - on the frequency of a SAM site. From the perspective of an American pilot - or , more precisely, the perspective of his HARM missile looking for a ‘lock’ on a SAM radar signal - this meant an air-to-ground picture that looked like 10,001 SAM signals, only one of which was real…”

Ramo suggests that if defenders have these black boxes then the U.S. aircraft would be helpless against enemy SAMs, and air superiority would be lost at stroke.

This is just one example of Beijing’s “Assassin’s Mace” family of weaponry that’s been much discussed in both Chinese and American military circles. The Pentagon defines the Maces as technologies that might afford an inferior military an advantage in a conflict with a superior power. In this view, an Assassin’s Mace is anything which provides a cheap means of countering an expensive weapon. Other examples might include Chinese anti-satellite weapons, which might instantly knock out U.S. space assets, or a conventional ballistic missile, designed to take out a supercarrier and all its aircraft in one hit. It’s an interesting contrast to the perspective of the American arms industry, which can end up spending vast amounts countering low-tech, low-cost threats like mines and IEDs.

Why “Assassin’s Mace?” A club-type weapon sounds like a rather unsuitable weapon for an assassin. The actual Chinese term is Sha Shou Jian (literally “killing hand club”), which refers to a pair of short wooden or metal rods used as a martial arts weapon. “Jian” normally denotes a long Chinese sword but Sha Shou Jian are blunt and heavy. They could be concealed in the long sleeves of court robes and used to make surprise attacks — hence the association with assassins.

And although some Western commentators like the New Atlantis claim that the meaning of the assassin’s mace “remains elusive, ” it’s no mystery to Mandarin speakers. Sha Shou Jian a popular expression used by sports commentators, businessmen and even in romantic advice columns. Alastair Johnston of Harvard University criticizes the way Washington pundits want to make the Assassin’s Mace “mysterious and exotic”: it’s simply the decisive, winning quality. In sports, the Assassin’s Mace may be the key goal-scorer; in business, it’s any quality that puts you ahead of the competition; in love, it might be the subtle smile that wins over the object of your affections. Johnston suggests that a fairly idiomatic translation would be “silver bullet” and that the concept behind it is less fiendishly oriental than is often supposed.

Ramo (who speaks Mandarin) — is more concerned with the potential threat from these devices. But is the black box intended to stop HARM so dangerous? I was not so sure: Danger Room covered new HARM upgrades a few months back and the makers seemed relaxed about dealing with countermeasures. So I asked Ramo if he really thought the Chinese were ready to take on the Air Force.

“I have to say I did ask some people about U.S. HARM technology and the general answer was that they are pretty confident that the sort of ECM [electronic countermeasure] system on sale at Zhuhai they have now found a solution for – which the Chinese probably know and that’s why they were selling it,” said Ramo. “And I think frankly that the box I saw was probably an early attempt that has now been passed by not only by better anti-HARM spoofs but also by a much more sophisticated integrated air-denial operational plan that includes a wide variety of tactics where ECM is complemented by space weapons, cyber, and other system-level attacks. ”

So the box itself may not be a HARM-killer. However, Ramo sticks very much to his original thesis about the Chinese approach to warfare.

“The point I was trying to make with the box was the way in which asymmetric power does allow cheap things to undo expensive ones — to introduce both the idea of the “Assassin’s Mace”(which I think fits many asymmetric systems) and to lead into some of the technological oscillations behind Offense/Defense balance, which I get into later on…. the best Assassin’s Maces are still secretly guarded and definitely aren’t for sale — at least not yet.”

So the good news is that U.S. air power still rules — and that Iran can’t buy “Assassin’s Mace” technology from China to cancel it out. The bad news is that this situation might change at any time.
LINK: China Looks to Undermine U.S. Power, With ‘Assassin’s Mace’ | Danger Room | Wired.com

We may expect such cheap technologies been transfered to pakistan. Though USA seem to have taken the counter measures, from Indian perspective this can be a serious matter.
 

luckyy

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bettertalk about " Comparative study of Indian Air Force and chines Air Force "...

that be more relavent .........
 
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Sam2012

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Hands down PAF will win & take over Delhi & u will listen to radio pakistan delhi & our president will be Sir Ziad hamid , later will be founder of United state of Islam which will be a super power equipped with state of art Jf-17 thunder invisble fighter aircraft which can even bomb military base in pearl harbour & come back undected without refuelling ;):) let us see how many ----- & paki brothers like this
 

bose

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IAF have to think beyond Pakistan and be prepared to face a two pronged war with China & Pakistan... IAF have to increase the 4++ generation aircraft in its inventory to around 1000 aircraft alteast in next 10 years that will include 300 MKI & 250 Rafale supported by LCA MK-II. IAF is currently lacking in numbers.
 

Kushal sinha

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Hi Friends Here we can discuss about Indian Air force Vs Pakistan Air Force

+ IAF

Fighters
- SU-30 MKI 98 (+/-)
- MiG-29 SMT 56 (+/-)
- MiG-27 UPG 100 (+/-)
- MiG-21 Bison/M/MF/FL 274 (+/-)
- Jaguar IS 104 (+/-)
- Mirage 2000 H 40 (+/-)
- AWACS 1

Helicopter
- Dhruv 36 (+/-)
- SA 315B Cheetah/Cheetal 28 (+/-)
- SA 316B Chetak 48 (+/-)
- Mi-8 102 (+/-)
- Mi-17 90 (+/-)
- Mi-35 20 (+/-)
- Mi-26 4 (+/-)

UAV

- Lakshya PTA 23 (+/-)
- Harpy 90 (+/-)
- Heron 120 (+/-)
- Search
er 150 (+/-)
- DRDO Nishant 15+

AWACS
-
Phalcon AWACS 1

Future Orders

Aircraft
- HAL Tejas 250<
- MMRCA 126 (+/-)
- FGFA 250<
- MCA 250<


Trainer Aircraft
- HJT-36 200<

Transport Aircraft
- C-17 Globemaster III 10+
- C-130J Super Hercules 6+6(optional)
- TTA 100+
- NAL Saras 15+30(to be produced)

AWACS
- DRDO AEW&C 3+3
- Phalcon AWACS 2

Air Tanker Aircraft

- Airbus A330 MRTT 6

Helicopter
- LUH 384+
- AgustaWestland AW101 20+
- MCH 22+
- HAL LCH 200+
- HLH 15+

UAV
- DRDO Rustom U/N
- DRDO Pawan U/N
- DRDO Gagan U/N

Cont...
good job done by you .
 

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