Comparative detail of cost factor of the 6 MMRCA contenders

luckyy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
568
Likes
3
Last edited:

Tshering22

Sikkimese Saber
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
7,869
Likes
23,239
Country flag
If they aren't going to make money, they won't do it. You have to give a little to get alot. France might have lost out on several deals, but at least we didn't lose money. Russia practically gives their stuff away. Russian producers are screaming to raise prices because there is no profit in what they are doing. It is part of the problem of their bankrupt defence industry.
Buddy, Russia has to give stuff away till today because they've not made anything new in the last 20 years since Soviet collapse. Living off Soviet designs that were made 25+ years back with minor upgrades and not even have AESA offered to international customers, there's not much they can afford to raise prices as compared to European and American vendors. The entire reason for Russia retaining second spot on the planet after USA is arms sales is because of its low-price-rugged-equipment deal that many middle-rich countries prefer over the through-the-roof prices of European and American suppliers who overcharge for everything.

The reason for Russian arms bankruptcy at this moment is because it is not able to create a domestic demand strong enough to receive enough orders. For example, if VVS (Russian Air Force) and RN (their Navy) were as strong as European countries economically, they would have:

- ordered at least 380-410 Su-35BMs for replacing their old Su-27s, MiG-31s and Su-30s
- ordered at least 350+ Su-34 Fullback bombers to replace their old Su-24s and Su-25s
- ordered at least 350-400 MiG-35 variant (offered in MRCA) to replace their old MiG-29As
- ordered at least 80-100 MiG-29Ks for their 2-3 carriers in Russian Navy

Now imagine how much money these orders from VVS and RN would've generated for the arms companies even if we consider economies of scale in each of the production lines mentioned above. Traditionally, China and we are their largest buyers of arms. China in recent years has managed to rummage for canceled designs all over the world from places like Israel apart from blatantly copying Russian designs and has come up with its own indigenous versions of these fighters to create domestic base for aeronautics and therefore almost stopped buying tier 1 weapons from Russians. That leaves us as their largest buyers which we still do due to a lack of far-sightedness from our sarkari, fly-swatting, paan-eating dodos and corrupt defense ministry politicians. After us, come Malaysia, Venezuela, Vietnam, Indonesia, some Arab states and a host of African countries that buy about 1/10th of what we do in a go.

Also, we're the only ones right now in a position to jointly finance and develop a stealth fighter that would cost $90-100 million apiece compared to other countries. Brazil was an option and Russia even invited them to join but somehow that didn't click well. Israel's Lavi designer has considered joining the PAKFA program, but that's still words. And I doubt Israel could afford more than a max of 80-100 fighters in one go.

Therefore, Russia has to come up with an ingenious solution to keep its current customer base happy and attract more West-oriented customers into its fold (like Malaysia that dumped F/A-18s and went for Su-30 MKMs) if it has to survive it out. And also Russia needs to seriously work up on its Marketing skills. For such a strong arms manufacturer, it is really, really inefficient. They've to take cues from SAAB, LM, Boeing, EADS etc on marketing and also press the VVS and RN to order fighters.
 
Last edited:

luckyy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
568
Likes
3
]Eurofighter-hour flight twice as expensive as expected

. The operating costs for the aircraft are to SPIEGEL information significantly higher than expected: With the price is € 73 992 per flight hour,
 

luckyy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
568
Likes
3
FLYING HOUR COST OF F-16 and MIRAGE-2000
Taipei, Oct. 22 ,2009 (CNA) Minister of National Defense Kao Hua-chu promised Thursday to consider a proposal to mothball the Air Force's Mirage fighter jets in light of their low performance and high maintenance costs.

While the maintenance costs of the F-16 fighters and the Indigenous Defense Fighter (IDF) are NT$160,000 and NT$250,000 per flight hour, respectively, it costs NT$800,000 per flight hour to maintain the Mirage jets, he said.

In the meantime, the Air Force will work with the French manufacturer in an effort to fix the problems with the turbine blades of the jet engines so as to upgrade the aircraft's performance, he said.



Defense ministry to consider proposal to mothball Mirage fighters - Taiwan News Online

32 NT$=1USD
that traslates into F-16 FLYING HOUR COST = 160000/32 = 5000USD
MIRAGE-2000 FLYING HOUR COST = 800000/32 = 25000USD
 

neo29

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
1,284
Likes
30
Surely F-16 and SH-18 have less flying hour cost, around 5000 usd per hour. Gripen is the least with 3000 usd.
 

luckyy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
568
Likes
3
flying hour cost of mig-35


November 22, 2009
Malaysia admitted that it is getting rid of its MiG-29 fighters because the aircraft are too expensive to maintain. It costs about $5 million a year, per aircraft, to keep them in flying condition.

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/Trashing-The-MiG-29-11-22-2009.asp

considering 200 hour of yearly flying it comes to 25000USD/flying hour..

taking into account 30% improvement over mig-29 to mig-35 as clamed 50%..

the rough extimates , FLYING HOUR COST = 18000USD
 
Last edited:

arps

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
48
Likes
1
FLYING HOUR COST OF F-16 and MIRAGE-2000
Taipei, Oct. 22 ,2009 (CNA) Minister of National Defense Kao Hua-chu promised Thursday to consider a proposal to mothball the Air Force's Mirage fighter jets in light of their low performance and high maintenance costs.

While the maintenance costs of the F-16 fighters and the Indigenous Defense Fighter (IDF) are NT$160,000 and NT$250,000 per flight hour, respectively, it costs NT$800,000 per flight hour to maintain the Mirage jets, he said.

In the meantime, the Air Force will work with the French manufacturer in an effort to fix the problems with the turbine blades of the jet engines so as to upgrade the aircraft's performance, he said.



Defense ministry to consider proposal to mothball Mirage fighters - Taiwan News Online



that traslates into F-16 FLYING HOUR COST = 160000/32 = 5000USD
MIRAGE-2000 FLYING HOUR COST = 800000/32 = 25000USD
This is a big disadvantage of costly Rafale/EuroFighter in front of F18/F16.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
I can flat out tell you, any cost per flight hour of a combat jet that is under five figures is just a lie. It costs nearly $10,000 to keep a BAE Hawk in the air.
 

luckyy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
568
Likes
3
Taiwan Looks to Scrap Mirage 2000 Jets


23 October 2009,

The Taiwan defence ministry will consider a proposal to scrap the air force's Mirage 200 jets from service or seal and store part of the fleet, according to Minister of National Defense Kao Hua-chu.

The air force's budget for 2010 shows that the operation and maintenance cost of the Mirage 2000 is earmarked at about $24,840 a flight hour.

In comparison, it costs about $4,937 a flight hour to fly the nation's F-16 fighters and $7,715 a flight hour for the country's self-developed indigenous defence fighters.

The air force ordered 60 Mirage jets in 1992, the first squadron of which came into service in December 1997. Currently, 57 of the planes are still in service.

Inspite of the jet's capabilities, the fighter has not been able to achieve operational availability due to the high cost of parts and components and relevant technical maintenance problems, Taiwan Daily reports.

The seal and store measure that is currently being adopted by the air force will allow for temporary bypassing of routine checks of the aircraft, saving costs by reducing man-hours.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/news/news67914.html
 
Last edited:

luckyy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
568
Likes
3
after cracks were discovered in the blades of several Mirage engines France has to compensated the Taiwan Air Force worth €10m ($13.5m) for its fleet of Mirage 2000 aircraft.

24 March 2010,
France has compensated the Taiwan Air Force by providing parts and maintenance services worth €10m ($13.5m) for its fleet of Mirage 2000 aircraft.

The maintenance services provided were in response to engine damage to the Mirage 2000, which prompted the air force to reduce training time and flight missions.

As part of the compensation, France supplied Snecma M53-P2 turbofan engines, advanced-scope testing equipment and trained air force personnel free of charge.

The air force has now resumed normal training operations of 15 hours monthly with the Mirage 2000, according to the Bangkok Post.

Normal training was reduced to eight hours, from September to December 2009, after cracks were discovered in the blades of several Mirage engines.

Taiwan ordered 48 single-seat Mirage 2000-5EI interceptors and 12 Mirage twin-seat 2000-5DI trainers in 1992.

Taiwan Receives Mirage Maintenance Services from France - Air Force Technology
 

luckyy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
568
Likes
3
IAF To Use Israeli Systems In Mirage Upgrade

In a recent development which may cause dismay to France, Israel has offered to upgrade the Mirage-2000 squadron with the Indian Air Force (IAF) for a price 40 per cent less than what the France have quoted.

Israel's Chief of Defence Staff, General Gabi Ashkenazi recently visited India and offered the expertise of the Israeli Aircraft Industries to upgrade the Mirage-2000. Defence Ministry sources said the delegation led by Israeli defence services chief made presentations to the top Indian officials, including the chief of air staff, Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik, on the Mirage 2000 upgrade that Israel Aircraft Industries would carry out in collaboration with other firms.

Defence Ministry officials said that the cost of the Israeli bid totals $19.2 million per aircraft while the French bid is worth $30.4 million. The IAF has at least 51 Mirage 2000s and the upgrade would include superior avionics and electronic warfare systems that would extend the service life of the aircraft by 15 years.

India has already indicated to France that their quote for upgrading the Mirage-2000 is rather exorbitant and India would go for a new aircraft considering the quote. The initial offer by the French firm Thales was for $2.9 billion and Thales later came down to $2.1 billion. However, IAF finds that price steep and instead of spending $41 million on each Mirage-2000, IAF would rather buy brand new fighters.
http://indiadefenceonline.com/1513/iaf-to-use-israeli-systems-in-mirage-upgrade/
 
Last edited:

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top