Comac set to deliver China's first passenger jets

Discussion in 'China' started by amoy, Apr 28, 2014.

  1. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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  2. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Boeing is expected to fork out $1.5 billion in compensations for the MAX issues. It is chicken scratch for a company as big as Boeing. Rolls Royce paid out more for issues with their garbage Trent engines.
     
  3. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    ATR Surveys Growth Prospects in U.S. and China

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...-31/atr-surveys-growth-prospects-us-and-china

    It believes a return to the U.S. market represents a massive sales opportunity, while it continues to work on China as an emerging prospect given its airlines fly fewer than 100 regional aircraft during a time of heavy investment in regional airports. “Our next project for us is to tap into markets that are not fully exploited,” ATR CEO Stefano Bortoli told a press conference in Paris on Thursday. “We did a demo tour in China, for example landing at Shangri’La Airport with a 42-600. So the goal is to certify the 42-600 in China in 2019.”
     
  4. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    How is yet another French aircraft manufacturer expanding into China good for Comac?
     
  5. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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  6. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    @amoy I am just trying to figure out why you posted ATR news in a Comac thread. Do you fear even more competition from France as we dominate Chinese aviation markets? We own half of your commercial airliner market, we dominate your helicopter market and now ATR is coming in for regional transport. Let the good times role! You need to lift the anti-graft laws so Dassault can sell more Falcons to your corrupt officials. It is a real downer for luxury items.
     
  7. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    I always enjoy your French humour @Armand2REP Hasn't Dassault bribed its way in India sales?

    Here's another case telling of how Alstom CEO got spanked by Americans for being naughty ~~

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ap-an-executive-s-view-from-a-u-s-prison-cell

    At the same time, the company he worked for, Alstom, was indicted by the DOJ for paying a total of at least 75 million U.S. dollars in bribes to officials in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia to win contracts. Thirty senior executives at the company were warned not to go to the U.S. for fear of arrest.

    But the indictment was not a simple anti-corruption probe, as Pierucci argued in his book "The American Trap," where he laid out the accusation that behind the DOJ's pursuit of his case was General Electric's pursuit of Alstom.
     
  8. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    @amoy "The American Trap" or Le Piège Américain as is the original title, is the best selling book in China right now. The founder of Huawei is making all of his employees read it. Thanks for the millions of dollars to support French authors, the arts are very important to us. If you want to learn how to navigate the world of business I can suggest several other French titles.
     
  9. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    No, thank u @Armand2REP I'm French illiterate. Sugar-coating unholy aims in holy catchphrases indeed is an art of the deal.
     
  10. singhboy98

    singhboy98 Regular Member

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    I am not aware of any such thing. Not sure what you are referring to?
     
  11. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Comac integration teams in complete disarray
    by Jennifer Meszaros
    - June 14, 2019

    When China announced plans to develop a second airliner to boost the country’s economic competitiveness, it was widely believed that these efforts would crack the long-standing duopoly that Airbus and Boeing have maintained in the narrowbody commercial jet market. More than a decade later, the C919 program continues to be hampered by weak oversight and manufacturing delays, sparking concerns about its ability to gain certification in Western markets.

    According to a source working closely with Comac who spoke with AIN on condition of anonymity, one of the long-standing impediments constraining progress is the integration of avionics components and its subsystems in the flight deck. This challenge reflects a larger concern about the company’s ability to achieve effective coordination across component teams.

    “The C919 is still fixing its design problems, so it’s not flying a lot. They haven’t really come to grips with some of the issues because everybody is working in a vacuum. They can’t integrate the plane because no one is talking to each other,” he told AIN. “Everyone wants to act as a soloist and get all the glory, but you can’t have a bunch of soloists and build an airplane.”

    Concerns about avionics integration were initially raised when China began developing its first indigenously developed regional jetliner, the ARJ21. Today, engineers continue to make incremental improvements to the flight deck’s design. A new layout on the regional jet now features a better-organized grouping of switches, buttons, instruments, and displays to simplify workload and increase situational awareness. Designers expect the new layout, successfully tested on the ARJ21’s flight simulator, to significantly reduce the amount of pilot training required on the type.

    Unlike the ARJ-21, which uses commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) products in the cockpit, the C919 is working with a complete avionics system design with key components sourced from western suppliers. Aviage Systems, a 50-50 joint venture between GE Aviation and Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), supplies an integrated modular avionics system, while Honeywell Aerospace supplies the aircraft’s fly-by-wire system with HonFei flight controls as well as the braking system under a joint venture with Boyun Aviation Systems. Collins Aerospace, under joint ventures established with China Electronics Technology Avionics Company and AVIC, supplies the C919’s communication, navigation, and integrated surveillance systems.


    For foreign suppliers, the cost of doing business in China means entering into a joint venture with local firms to participate in tenders for major aerospace components and systems. Indeed, since the government’s launch of its industry-building “Made in China 2025” policy program, joint ventures with foreign firms can serve as effective vehicles for knowledge transfer and R&D capabilities.

    However, simply throwing more money at the C919 will not make it globally competitive. While foreign firms have contributed major components to the program, Chinese teams on the factory floor are tasked with system-wide integration. Not only does this require highly coordinated teams—a concept that Comac allegedly struggles with—it also requires a fair degree of technical know-how to bring its ambitious C919 project in line with FAA and EASA requirements.

    “If they are going to sell this aircraft outside of China, they will need FAA and EASA approval, and both are difficult to get; the teams don’t get this…both the FAA and EASA said they are going to help but they’re also shaking their heads. There are so many problems with integration, they don’t know where to start,” said the source.

    Meanwhile, the ARJ-21 is also facing its own set of issues as it moves towards market competitiveness. While production has remained relatively unchanged, with one aircraft rolling off the line once every four to six weeks, the new jets are destined for Chinese operators. If there is going to be a place for the ARJ-21 on the international stage, the aircraft needs to be “Western-ready.” At least one year is required to make the jet marketable to operators outside of China.

    “You need to have the systems in English ready to go. Operating manuals need to be in English and up to international standards; mechanics, pilots, and other personnel supporting the aircraft delivery and operations also need to be taught in English,” he told AIN. It is imperative to have a global support system that inspires confidence.”

    The challenge of producing English language manuals has also spilled over into the development of the C919, where manuals are supposed to be written in English first; however, according to the source, this plan is not widely implemented. Concerns about a lack of an aviation safety management system (SMS) were also recently raised after the tail of an ARJ-21 struck the factory’s hangar door.
     
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  12. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Justice is about to be delivered to Airbus. And with following verdict Boeing will be able to maintain the equilibrium after its recent fiascos.
    :balleballe:

    Boeing's Big Day: WTO Clears Way For Massive Penalties In Long-Running Aircraft Subsidies Case https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorent...ties-in-long-running-aircraft-subsidies-case/

    Europe’s last line of defense fell Tuesday, with the WTO ruling that the U.S. Trade Representative may now proceed to impose tariffs on European exports matching the damage caused by $22 billion in illegal subsidies.

    Not only will Washington be able to impose tariffs wherever it feels they will be most effective in discouraging further illegal subsidies of jetliners, but the size of the tariffs may equal the amount of damage being done to U.S. plane maker Boeing each year. That amount is likely to be quite imposing, because the 2010 ruling found that Airbus might not exist at all in the absence of a continuing stream of illegal subsidies.
     
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  13. smooth manifold

    smooth manifold Regular Member

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    Airframe no. 5 seen here after performing a taxiing test sometime earlier this month (on the 15th?) at Pudong airport. All images are high-resolution.
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Chengdu Airlines begins Comac ARJ21 International service from late-October 2019

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/3...international-service-from-late-october-2019/

    Chengdu Airlines this Saturday (26OCT19) is launching new route to Russia Far East, as it begins Harbin – Vladivostok route. Initially, first flight is scheduled on Saturday, but this will switch to Mondays and Fridays from 28OCT19.

    This route will be served by Comac ARJ21-700 aircraft, marking the aircraft type’s first International route.
     
  15. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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  16. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yeah so the jobs are for ameican workers not French or... Just what Trump is aiming at (for reelection).

    Taking advantage of the tug of war China should follow suit to force Airbus to allocate mor3 manufacturing capacity to China locally, and make China great again!

    And look at w hat's coming up for EU against backdrops of the Sino US trade deal that's about to conclude -

    the US government revealed its intentions to impose a 25% import tariff on EU goods, including single malt Scotch whisky, single malt Irish whiskey, liqueurs, cordials and wine on 18 October 2019. The US has also imposed a 10% tariff on aircrafts.

    https://www.thespiritsbusiness.com/2019/10/us-slaps-25-tariff-on-scotch-whisky/
     
  17. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Whatever it takes to dominate the US market.
    Whatever it takes to dominate the Chinese market.
    Wait... so China has fallen to their knees and accepted Trump's harsh trade terms? The EU just placed reciprocal tariffs on the US but it looks like China has surrendered.
     
  18. rockdog

    rockdog Regular Member

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    Even the first stage of "mini deal" between China and US is not signed yet.

    https://markets.businessinsider.com...artial-deal-before-tariffs-2019-10-1028594254

    Just wondering why the word "surrendered" came out from your mind.... Because of you guys have more experiences at it?
     
  19. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    You just said they were getting ready to conclude a trade deal. That will mean you have surrendered to their demands.
    China has an entire century of humiliation surrendering to France... has France ever surrendered to China? I have seen your most popular movie about the Sino-French War and I have to say it is total Han fantasy.
     
  20. rockdog

    rockdog Regular Member

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    Loss or win was quite common in old times, there was no "surrenderred" between ancient China and France, and Qing dynasty was terminated by KMT. But how was the France terminated during WWII?

    In mordern time,between PRC and France Republic, who ever surrenderred?

    https://www.quora.com/Why-does-France-have-a-reputation-for-surrendering

    In Chinese cyber, a famouse joke is: world's hardest mititary mission is: Capture Paris before the surrender of France

    You can baidu this setence "在法国投降之前占领巴黎" see how many pages you can find ...

    Now i know why even China/US didn't sign any paper, you concluded China with word of"surrenderred" so quickly: Since your whole team didn't fighter longer than a USSR single building (fortress of Brest) ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019

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