Comac set to deliver China's first passenger jets

Discussion in 'China' started by amoy, Apr 28, 2014.

  1. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,095
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    Comac was announcing orders for the C919 as far back as 2010. There you go inventing a circumstance that doesn't exist, pretending it is not available for orders or that the A320 is not the direct competitor. When the CCP forced airlines to order the C919 and now that it has failed they are ordering French planes by the hundreds will spell the end of C919. Don't pretend the Communist Party doesn't demand viable domestic products to replace foreign ones.
     
  2. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,095
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    CEO of Dassault Systemes mocks Comac, thinks C919 is going nowhere.

    Aerospace is a complex industry and it takes time, even for well-established companies, to accumulate knowledge and know-hows to build reliable commercial aircraft, Bernard Charles, vice chairman and CEO of Dassault Systemes, said Thursday.

    "I think it will take China one or two generations of airplanes to have a truly worldwide competitive product ."

    Comac uses Dassault Systemes' products at its major research centers.

    "The team from the 919 selected our design software," Charles said, referring to the people working on the Comac C919 aircraft. "It shows that this kind of highly sophisticated industry, it's not only a question of toolset or buying digital infrastructure. It's also about organization, it's also about knowledge or know-how."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/28/das...na-aviation-competing-with-boeing-airbus.html

    Chinese are so behind they have to buy French CAD softwares. :laugh: :rofl: :laugh:
     
  3. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    1,796
  4. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,095
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    Now that Boeing has fallen into crisis the A320neo stands alone to dominate the single aisle market which makes 78% of all aircraft sales. With a quick move Airbus has grabbed majority stake in C series Bombardier at no cost thanks to Trump's protectionism. So we have picked up another single aisle product for free in the A220.

    Now let us examine the competition. 737 MAX is a taboo product. The biggest of Embraer's E-jets could be considered a competitor but they are nowhere near the range or fuel efficiency of A320neo.

    So what is left, Comac C919 has been closely examined by Dassault Systemes and determined that the Chinese are two generations away from internationally competitive aircraft.

    MC-21 will go the way of the SSJ because Russia has not established a comprehensive support network. There is an entire fleet of SSJs grounded in Mexico because Russia charges too much to service them.
     
  5. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    Frankly Comac doesn't have to be "competitive" internationally.

    There's ample room for C919, like for ARJ jets, domestically. Just a slice of the internal market is enough for it to thrive.

    China is expected to overtake the U.S. as the world’s largest aviation market by 2022. Boeing has predicted that China will need to buy 7,000 more planes worth $1.1 trillion by 2036. While Boeing and Airbus jostle to supply those planes, China has also been trying to build its own models, the latest of which is the Comac C919.

    If protectionism is the order of the day, Airbus and Boeing will be belly up without the China market share.
     
  6. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,095
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    The C919 isn't even competitive in China. Supreme Leader Xi just signed a deal for 300 A320neos for the state run CAS. If you can't even get your president to not buy French planes for the state then how is Comac going to sell anything?

    The ARJ-21 isn't a competitive product. It is an MD-80 hybrid clone with poor performance. It is a zombie aircraft like your zombie corporations, they only survive by subsidies but losing money every day. Without internationally recognised safety certification it will not go anywhere.

    The fall of Boeing doesn't mean the rise of China, it means the further rise of France which is why Supreme Leader Xi prefers French aircraft over Chinese.
     
  7. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    C919 is stilll years away from commercial operations. Also China's market is big enough to accomodate many players.

    That's why A320neos and the likes are still dominating the sky. By the way Boeing doesn't fall (yet), therefore it's too early for Airbus to celebrate. U'd better not rejoice over others' misfortune!!!

    Oh good to hear your mention of subsidies-->>>>

    Myths vs. Facts on the U.S. – EU Aerospace Subsidy Dispute

    The WTO Decision against European Subsidies
    Is Airbus able to survive without illegal subsidies for a day??? Let's wait and see.:india:
     
  8. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,095
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    It is still years away from commercial operations yet they started taking orders for it in 2010. It was not the Chinese market that just ordered 300 A320neos, it was the Chinese government signed by your Supreme Leader. If you can't secure the government market, how can you secure the commercial market?

    How has Boeing not fallen when they were expected to win the $35 billion order just signed with France? Indonesia is the first of 8 737 MAX orders ready to cancel their deals. There is no C919 to take their place, it is only A320neo.

    WTO rulings are only to give the US legal room to initiate tariffs, something you are feeling deep. :hippo:
     
  9. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,095
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    @amoy

    You will be happy to know that Boeing lost to Airbus in the WTO and they will soon be charged billions if they don't get on their knees and beg.

    "Absent settlement, the US will pay – in perpetuity – billions in annual sanctions driven by every single flying Boeing programme, while the EU would face, in the worst case, only minor issues."

    https://www.aero-mag.com/airbus-applauds-wto-fair-trade-ruling-against-boeing/
     
    airtel likes this.
  10. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    Mind u, supreme Xi was flying on a Boeing jet to meet pussy-leg Macron. That 35bil u kept on harping is no more than an inter-govmt MoU, non-binding hence more posturing than substance. Eventually it'd be up to individual business (liner) to make their bid.

    @Armand2REP has been evading the very truth that illegal subsidies have been funnelled to Airbus continuously, otherwise it'd have not been able to stand a chance from the very beginning against Boeing.

    The biggest and most impactful of the subsidies is known as launch aid – highly subsidized loans to Airbus for the development of new products. Repayment is tied to airplane delivery targets, so typically does not begin until several years after a program is launched. What's more, the interest rates on the loans are significantly less than commercial lenders would charge, and in the event a product does not hit a pre-determined sales target, remaining loans on the product are forgiven.

    Launch aid provides significant advantages to Airbus, among them artificially low cost of capital, lower program risk, and the ability to price its products lower than the competition. It also enables Airbus to introduce new products faster than it would be able to do otherwise. The continuation of launch aid and other European subsidies to Airbus poses a significant risk to America's ability to compete successfully in the global commercial airplane market.


    Now Trump admin. is rectifying all this to save American manufacturing jobs from EU / Airbus' foul play. America is not going to allow France et al to take advantage of her.

    Besides the trade deal that China and US are drafting would entail China's commitments on massive imports from the US till 2025. That'd not be a surprise China'd switch imports (like of agri products from Australia / Brazil, or energy from Mid East) to the US for trade balance. If u can't make everybody happy, please the big Bro first!


    Lately Airbus had to scrap production of A380. An Airbus white elephant despite loads of subsidies! Why? Simply becoz Chinese were not interested unlike dashy Emiratis. Chinese as the top buyer will play the cards wisely.

    Money talks!
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  11. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    China's C919 jetliner to speed up test flights in 2019
    China's C919 large passenger aircraft project will see an overall accelerative test flight phase with the test fleet reaching six in 2019, according to its developer on Wednesday.

    [​IMG]
    Three C919 jets that just concluded test flights in Shandong Province are gathered at the assembly shop in Pudong, Shanghai during the Spring Festival. [File photo: CCTV]

    In 2019, three new airplanes will conduct their first test flights and then join the test fleet. The batch production ramp-up is also underway, said the Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China (COMAC).

    The C919, China's first self-developed trunk jetliner, conducted a successful maiden flight on May 5, 2017, at Shanghai Pudong International Airport.

    By the end of 2018, three C919 airplanes have completed their test flights.

    To date, another three are now in the final assembly, part assembly or large parts manufacturing phases respectively and are expected to join the fleet by the end of the year.

    The flight test is a key verification phase for an aircraft model to validate its design and performance, especially the safety aspects.

    The C919 airplanes will fly to various airports to undergo rigorous testing in complex weather conditions and a series of high-risk test flights, according to COMAC.

    To date, COMAC has received 815 orders for the C919 from 28 customers worldwide.
     
    indiatester likes this.
  12. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    China's aviation regulator has been invited to join the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) review panel on the Boeing (NYSE:BA) 737 MAX, an official at the regulator said on Thursday.

    The Civil Aviation Administration of China has not decided whether to accept the invitation, the official in the regulator's media relations department told Reuters.

    The FAA said on Wednesday it is forming an international team to review the safety of the Boeing 737 MAX grounded after two fatal crashes since October.
     
  13. tamilandhindu

    tamilandhindu Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    27
    I think it is good to have a non-western manufacturer of aeroplanes. The only real competitors to planes built by NATO were from Brazil or the Russian-sphere. Bombardier is a competitor to the duopoly of Airbus/Boeing but is based in Canada - albeit French Canada, and whilst Japan has a strong ability to produce planes, it has never sought to manufacture them on a large scale and sell them overseas until very recently and we're still waiting to see how it will unfold.
    China will hopefully be able to invent new technology, along with Airbus and Boeing, and hopefully create a market that will cheapen products for India. Consequently I hope that India manages to compete with China and Russia too, rather than just resorting to exporting talent to Boeing and claiming victory.
     
  14. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,095
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    The glorious Supreme Leader can fly on whatever he wants while he brings $35 billion orders to Airbus. That is $35 billion going into our aerospace and not into your fledgling aerospace that needs all the investment it can get.

    Trump can whine and complain all he wants. There is nothing he can do to pull Boeing's safety record out of the mud. They cut corners and many people died needlessly. The world now craves for the quality that only Airbus provides.

    So you are saying that Trump is the one that brought China to its knees? Maybe so... all I know is Airbus winning, Boeing-COMAC losing.

    Doesn't bother me with those garbage British engines. It might be the final nail in the Rolls Royce coffin paving the way for Safran who by the way recently opened a €100m research facility for next gen material sciences for high temp turbines, namely SCAF but also next gen commercial engines.

    https://www.safran-group.com/media/...ne-blades-research-center-near-paris-20190206

    That is what makes the world go round, that and an Airbus to get there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  15. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    What goes around comes around. Trump will slap tariffs on EU for its malpractice that's given Airbus an unfair edge.

    The World Trade Organization finds that the European Union subsidies to Airbus has adversely impacted the United States, which will now put Tariffs on $11 Billion of EU products! The EU has taken advantage of the U.S. on trade for many years. It will soon stop!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 9, 2019

    The only way to break their monopoly is to encourage competition., and climb up the value chain.
     
  16. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,095
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    @amoy

    It is not a problem when the European market for new aircraft is twice as large as the American market. If he bans Airbus and we ban Boeing, he losses twice as much and we gain that much more. Kicking American airliners and weapons out of the EU is EXACTLY what I want.
     
  17. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    China-developed ARJ21 regional aircraft realizes 10,000 flight hours

    [​IMG]
    CHENGDU - China-developed ARJ21 regional airplanes have realized a total of 10,000 safety flight hours in commercial operation as of the end of March, according to Chengdu Airlines Thursday.

    By the end of March, the fleet of ARJ21 airplanes have carried around 320,000 passengers shuttling around Chinese cities, said Chengdu Airlines.


    Based in Chengdu in Southwest China's Sichuan province, Chengdu Airlines launched the ARJ21 aircraft.

    To date, it has received 11 ARJ21 airplanes and used them to connect more than 20 domestic cities, mostly second-tier cities.

    Chengdu Airlines has been continuously using the aircraft model by expanding a cross-region air route network with both trunk and regional routes. And the fleet size of ARJ21 airplanes will increase steadily, said the airline.

    Developed by the Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China (COMAC), the ARJ21 is China's first indigenously developed regional passenger jetliner.

    It is designed with 78 to 90 seats and has a range of 3,700 km. It can fly in alpine and plateau regions and is adaptive to various airport conditions.

    The first ARJ21 airplane was delivered to Chengdu Airlines in 2015. It conducted its first commercial flight on June 28, 2016.
     
    HariPrasad-1 and indiatester like this.
  18. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    1,796
  19. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    13,095
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    Africa World Airlines denies ordering aircraft from COMAC
    Source: Ghana|Myjoyonline.com | Sheila Tamakloe |Joy Business
    Date: 22-03-2019 Time: 01:03:01:pm
    Share
    [​IMG]
    Richard Kyereh, Head of Commercial for AWA


    Indigenous carrier Africa World Airlines is rejecting reports by Bloomberg that they are planning to acquire two COMAC ARJ21 jets from the Chinese aircraft maker.

    The Head of Commercial for the airline, Richard Kyereh, said although they are in touch with Comac there are no plans of making any purchases soon.


    “We are speaking with COMAC and hope to get more information on the exciting new product they are proposing to sell to us, but there are no plans to order any aircraft at this immediate time,” he said.

    Africa World Airlines is partly owned by Chinese HNA Group and other shareholders which include SAS finance (Ghana), Social Security and National Insurance Trust (SSNIT)-Ghana and Zongjia Investment Limited- China.


    The Airline currently operates to four regional capitals in Ghana namely, Accra, Kumasi, Takoradi and Tamale as well as four other destinations within the sub-region to Lagos, Abuja, Freetown and Monrovia.

    https://www.myjoyonline.com/busines...lines-denies-ordering-aircraft-from-comac.php
     
  20. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,943
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    BEIJING (Reuters) - China and European Union regulators have signed landmark agreements in aviation, which will boost cooperation in the sector between both regions, Chinese state media CCTV said on Monday.

    The agreements were signed between the Civil Aviation Administration of China and the European Aviation Safety Agency, marking the first time China and EU have reached such a deal in the civil aviation sector, according to Chinese media CCTV.

    The two agreements include one on air space security and another related to flights.

    China and European Union sign landmark aviation deal - Chinese state media
     
    HariPrasad-1 likes this.

Share This Page