Cold Start: A Pakistani perspective

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Known_Unknown, May 31, 2009.

  1. naseem

    naseem Regular Member

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    Taliban control more than 75% of area in Afghanistan and you have to admit that they are better and braver fighters than americans
     
  2. angeldude13

    angeldude13 Lestat De Lioncourt Senior Member

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    so you think drone firing few missiles is full fledged bombing.
    if you didn't understand then i will elaborate it for you.
    i said if afghanistan's each and every kabaili area,military installation and cities like kabul are bombed back to rubbles then they will have no option and will surrender.
    as they cannot hide in civilian population then there only hope of living is surrender and if they want to continue fighting then they will be eradicated from the face of earth within few weeks.
    afghanistan hilly region is not like himalyan region.
    himalyan region is the highest in the world.so airsupport is doing a good job in afghanistan.
    do you want me to post videos in which US apaches are slaughtering those pussy talibani.
     
  3. angeldude13

    angeldude13 Lestat De Lioncourt Senior Member

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    no i don't believe your 75% theory.
    they are pussy's who hide in civilian population so here goes your bravery theory.
     
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  4. naseem

    naseem Regular Member

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    i don't know why but i am not allowed to post a link so you can do a google search for it and find an independent study on it
     
  5. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    HOW MANY TIMES YOU HAVE TRIED THOSE EXPERTS ??

    with what results !!

    Pakistanies are incorrigible...
     
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  6. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    This one's simple enough.
    Just put a neat hole right between the eyes when he looks down your barrel. The general only has to defeat the mard-e-moins on Earth. Lets leave wars in heaven to Loki and Thor for the time being

    Since you are new here, and obviously a perfect F in history, let me show you the enlightenment.

    Three very important shifts mark the insurgency in Kashmir valley after its activation in 1985 (the very first time militancy began in Kashmir). One was in 1990, the next was around 1994-95 and the final shift was the Kargil conflict.

    Five years after the beginning of insurgency in Kashmir, ISI & PA pulled its support from the JKLF. One reason (the most popular one cited) was the divergence of views of the two groups. JKLF wanted an independent Kashmir, PA wanted it a part of Pak. But another reason exists. The PAK establishment realised that the local insurgents simply couldn't force the hand of Indian govt. or the paramilitary forces in Kashmir. (yup, thats right. The Army was inducted much later.)

    Enter 1994-95, and pak had another Earth shattering revelation shoved up its ass, this time by the Indian Army. The pakistani fighters, the immortal, invincible, ultra martial mard-e-moins, equipped and trained by the PA (at times SSG operatives themselves) were being literally massacred. The Pakistani hopes of turning Kashmir into the next Afganistan were being crushed under the wheels of the IA trucks.

    The IA, the BSF, the CRPF, despite tremendous losses, were holding the region, dominating the region. All the lessons and tactics learned by PAK in Afgan campaign were unravelling faster than Sunny Leon's clothing.

    The panic in Pak was the reason for the second shift. Bringing in foreign, battle hardened veterans from Afganistan mujahideen.
    An excerpt.

    By now the insurgency was a full scale low level conflict and its primary flag bearer was not the local insurgent but the battle hardened veterans of the Afghan jihad. With the winding down of the Afghan conflict a large number of Afghan mujahids were freed up. With no other occupation but the thought of jihad they now turned their attention to Kashmir. Known as the Mehmaan (Guest) militants they were eager to take on the Indian Army. Where as the Kashmiri insurgents would open up from more than 100 meters away the Afghan would come in as close as 30 meters.-

    The result....

    But the Afghan tough as they were soon realized that this was not Soviet conscripts but the tough and motivated men of the Indian Army. Furthermore unlike the Soviets the Indian Army was fighting on its own land. In the battles even though the Indian Army and other forces had higher losses than before the Afghans more often then not were eliminated

    Another EPIC fail.

    Now everyone knows the Mushi contention that Kargil was an attempt to retake Siachin and force India's hand on settling the dispute. There is another reason the Gen. For obvious reasons, would like to hide.

    The insurgency had been waning for sometime and the morale of the mujahids in the valley and in POK camps at their lowest. The campaign was dying a slow death amd needed something to be revived. The Kargil attempt was a step in that direction.

    We all know thr result of this shift.

    Fact is, PA & ISI have tried every trick in their little 'How to capture Kashmir?" guidebook. Heck, they even created many revolutionary stuff, including use of brutality to intimidare the forces. The only option, it seems, is to use Zaid Hamid and his holy warriors, but they have mysteriously disappeared.

    Nothing, absolutely nothing, need I remind you, has worked. Whatever the cost to this nation, every inch of its territory will be protected
    .

    They can focus the whole mujahideen to kashmir. Wouldn't still make a dent to our control.

    Now, I sincerely hope you dont fail the next history test.

    See ya.
     
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  7. Vishwarupa

    Vishwarupa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Now that India will be getting, INS Vikramaditya( by Dec 13) & INA Arihant active, will there be any change in cold start strategy. How will India use these 2 Naval assets for cold start campaign.
     
  8. boris

    boris Regular Member

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    They may be as brave but no way better than even conventional Infantry and Marines. It is going to be the best joke if someone compares Taliban with SEALs,Delta Force,Green Berets and all other US Spec Ops forces, their technical skill,marksmanship is at a total different level, you have to see it to believe it.
     
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  9. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  10. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    @divine heretic-what is mard-e-moins?
     
  11. shayanjameel08

    shayanjameel08 Regular Member

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    Really it is very useful post & I like to read these types of post & thanks for sharing such type of posts…
     
  12. The Fox

    The Fox Regular Member

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    Cold war is the wars fought in winter.......... u looser ..... LOL
     
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  13. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Bravery due to rampant use of drugs. The drug use is out of control in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
    Another reason is illiteracy and under-development where people have just no avenues to live a respectable life.

    You compare the wretched life of an Afghan Taliban militant with an American soldier. I say there is no comparison.

    It is not bravery. It is foolishness that Taliban shows. What national development has Taliban done??
     
  14. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Pashtuns are inching towards catastrophe and extinction. The Pashtuns are people of low intelligence who have always been brainwashed by external parties.

    The tactics of Taliban is tactics of tribal herdsmen. It is NOT tactics of intelligent and civilized people.

    Any organized army of Taliban will fail miserably against any organized army of a major nation.

    As for Afghanistan - the only outcome of Taliban is misery and poverty. Do we commend that. NO.
     
  15. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    The cold start is a partial reality today. Indian army can mobilize adequate forces within hours to blunt any surprise offensive by Pakistan.

    The regular patrolling by UAVs and EW planes makes it very difficult for Pakistan to spring a surprise. All key areas have enough army presence and means (like combat helicopters, fighters) to respond within hours of beginning of a move by Pakistan army.

    Only thing India does not have today is enough anti-tank helicopters though this will get addressed in next five years.
     
  16. Ashutosh Lokhande

    Ashutosh Lokhande Senior Member Senior Member

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    A direct counter to our cold start doctrine for pakistan is to simple lower there nuclear threshold.
    I feel we still dont have the answer to there nuclear blackmail.


    Cold start doctrine would have been legit if it had an element of surprise. By making it public we just lost that advantage.
     
  17. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Actually there is no such thing as "nuclear blackmail". This is imagination of our own think-tanks.

    Cold start is not about 'surprise'. Cold start is about readiness. A lot of planning and execution has happened in the last one decade to make it happen.

    Cold start is not about attack. It is about defence. It means that India can mobilize forces very quickly in key theaters of war.
     
  18. Bheeshma

    Bheeshma Regular Member

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    Cold start is simply saying we will retaliate when and where we choose. There is no nuclear blackmail. Even if Indian troop are hit inside Lahore by paki nukes, whole of pakistan will be wiped out. The nuclear NFU clearly spells this out.
     
  19. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is no such thing as "lowering nuclear threshold".

    It is clear in India-Pakistan context that only one State will survive the nuclear war. I am sure Pakistani leadership knows this as well.

    Pakistan's largest threat is its internal problems. These do not get solved by going to war with India.

    However a war can happen if Pakistan gets support from external actors - like if China instigates it to start war with India and provides massive materiel support; or if Pakistan gets massive support from Saudi, Turkey etc.

    I doubt Pakistan will go to war on the strength of its nuclear weapons.
     
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  20. charlie

    charlie Regular Member

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    A good perspective from Pakistani general, till 14:00 only after that an idiot starts talking.
     
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