Civil war in Ukraine

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pmaitra

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Ukraine president blames military failure on deserting commanders

Ukraine conflict: Russian families look for soldier sons

Two sides, focusing on the perceived internal problems with "mothers and wives worrying for their sons and husbands." Both are probably true, however, it appears, Ukraine's situation is that it is on the verge of losing its very existence as an independent nation, while Russian soldiers have been getting killed in Chechnya, Ingushetia, and Dagestan for years now, and their "mothers and wives" have been crying for years as well, which has made no difference to Russia; and the news thereof, never made it to the positions of prominence in western media.
 

Samar Rathi

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NATO Isn't Arming Ukraine, Just Like Russia Isn't Fighting There

As Vladimir Putin and Petro Poroshenko talk about the Ukraine situation, suspicious "little green men" spontaneously appear once more, and the Ukrainian army continues a long, bloody advance into the rebel-held east, NATO may be fixing to get almost as aggressively ambiguous as Russia already is.

A few events before the upcoming NATO Summit in Cardiff on September 4 all suggest that the West has finally decided that it would like to do a great deal (or more than absolutely nothing) but just doesn't want to be too tacky about it.

The first is a puzzling sale of 58 T-72 tanks to the Czech Republic by Hungary. Since the signing of the Conventional Armed Forces in Europe Treaty in 1990, the purchase, transfer, and stationing of European arms and troops has been tightly regulated. So a sale between two signatories (such as the Czech Republic and Hungary) is closely monitored. And something caught the eye of defense industry observers in this transaction. While the Czechs were buying the vehicles, it didn't appear that they would actually be using them.

It's not yet possible to tell where these tanks will be going, but the current speculation is that they're destined for the Ukrainian army. This makes sense, because Ukraine is desperate for new equipment that is completely compatible with the Soviet-style stuff already in their inventory; the army doesn't want to screw around with new training or parts in the middle of a war.

The closer you have to live to Russia, the more adamant you are about having a lot of armed backup.
But Hungary borders Ukraine directly, so why not just drive them into Ukraine? Well, the Hungarian entity selling the tanks is their Ministry of Defense. The Czech buyer, however, is a private company. So as long as the Czechs keep in compliance with relevant treaty obligations and the like, the sale is legal, and the Hungarian government can be completely honest when they say they're not providing arms to the Ukrainian military.

Secondly, the Croatian Ministry of Defense has announced that this is the perfect time to upgrade its helicopters to something more in keeping with the country's position as a member of a US-led alliance. They're getting rid of 14 old Mil Mi-8 transport choppers and will replace them with 20 new UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters from the US. What about the old, non-NATO helicopters? Well, as it turns out, there's a country to Croatia's east — that starts with "U-K-R" and rhymes with "insane" — on the lookout for ready-to-use Soviet-compatible equipment.

Finally, NATO head Anders Fogh Rasmussen recently told the Guardian that the alliance may put some sort of bases in Eastern European nations that share a border with Russia. There's some division on this within NATO. Some longtime NATO members, like Spain and Italy, are opposed to new bases, but folks in the East are clamoring for a stronger, permanent NATO presence, and Germany is sitting on the fence. It appears that the closer you have to live to Russia, the more adamant you are about having a lot of armed backup.

To split the difference (and to limit how big a deal Russia can make out of this) NATO won't be setting up large permanent bases. Rather, the idea is that there are facilities, with some troops stationed there for as "long as necessary" and other NATO forces rotated through. The idea of higher rotation is that it acquaints all the other militaries with the environment and gives them practice deploying to the base without being stationed there permanently.

Hopefully, this means that in the event of a real crisis, all of NATO would know how to find their way to the east, would be familiar with all the local rental car places, hotels, and restaurants, and could just hop on over and go fight the heck out of a war with Russia in a jiffy.

Videos of alleged Russian soldiers in Ukraine emerge as Minsk meeting ends in stalemate. Read more here.

But even if NATO wanted a more visible and formidable presence in the East, it may simply not have enough strength to do it convincingly. As Rasmussen told the Guardian:

"Since the end of the cold war we have lived in relatively good weather. Now we are faced with a profound climate change. That requires more investment. Politicians have tried to harvest the peace dividend after the end of the cold war. That's understandable. But now we are in a completely new security situation."

Whether or not having the ability to conjure a large military deterrent is the same as actually having the deterrent in place is an interesting question. How much of deterring an opponent is just the basic psychological fact of having a big ole military force on the ground, versus having a big ole military force on speed dial? It might not pack quite as much punch; consider the difference between seeing a cop right in front of you versus knowing they're a phone call away. How will Russia, NATO, and Eastern Europe view a 24-hour armed guard differently than an armed first responder? It's hard to tell, but Ukrainians might have some thoughts on the matter.

https://news.vice.com/article/nato-isnt-arming-ukraine-just-like-russia-isnt-fighting-there
 

jouni

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Ukraine president blames military failure on deserting commanders

Ukraine conflict: Russian families look for soldier sons

Two sides, focusing on the perceived internal problems with "mothers and wives worrying for their sons and husbands." Both are probably true, however, it appears, Ukraine's situation is that it is on the verge of losing its very existence as an independent nation, while Russian soldiers have been getting killed in Chechnya, Ingushetia, and Dagestan for years now, and their "mothers and wives" have been crying for years as well, which has made no difference to Russia; and the news thereof, never made it to the positions of prominence in western media.
Yes, in Russia it has always been that citizens exist to benefit the state. Other countries like to think it is the other way around. Look at Stalin during his regime tens of millions of his own citizens died. This memory is deep in Russian psyche.
 

Samar Rathi

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Meanwhile, a statement from the Ukrainian President

Commenting on the situation near Ilovaysk, the President noted that it was mainly the responsibility of chiefs of two units who left the defense line without permission and put their comrades in an extremely difficult situation. "I underline that the state will take resolute measures to prevent betrayal and desertion. We must honestly and openly talk about it," he said.
Ситуация сложная, но контролируемая - Президент Украины - Официальное представительство Президента Украины
If president is making such statement then you know "desertion" is getting out of hand in Ukrainian army.
 

pmaitra

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Meanwhile, a statement from the Ukrainian President



If president is making such statement then you know "desertion" is getting out of hand in Ukrainian army.
What did he mean by two units? Two Companies? Batallions? Divisions?
 

Samar Rathi

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Transcript:"‚President Obama's Aug. 28 remarks on Ukraine, Syria and the economy

QUESTION: Do you consider today's escalation in Ukraine an invasion?

OBAMA: I consider the actions that we've seen in the last week a continuation of what's been taking place for months now.

Does not call it an invasion specifically

OBAMA: We are not taking military action to solve the Ukrainian problem. What we're doing is to mobilize the international community to apply pressure on Russia. But I think it is very important to recognize that a military solution to this problem is not going to be forthcoming.

and he refused to answer whether the USA would send arms to Ukraine.


QUESTION: How about sending arms to the Ukrainians?
(CROSSTALK)
OBAMA: OK. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you, guys. Thank you.
Transcript:"‚President Obama's Aug. 28 remarks on Ukraine, Syria and the economy - The Washington Post
 

Samar Rathi

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What did he mean by two units? Two Companies? Batallions? Divisions?
Soldiers from those two unit retreated and other travelled to Mariupol so i assume he want to make statement out of those 2 unit so others won't do it in future. Also they were asked if they wanted to fight. I posted that in previous posts so go have a look if you want brief and accurate story.
 

pmaitra

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Soldiers from those two unit retreated and other travelled to Mariupol so i assume he want to make statement out of those 2 unit so others won't do it in future. Also they were asked if they wanted to fight. I posted that in previous posts so go have a look if you want brief and accurate story.
I remember that NYT article, with about 400 Ukrainian soldiers who rode buses and retreated, and were stopped for desertion.
 

pmaitra

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Vladimir Putin defends the Ukrainian soldiers - The Russian President called on the militia of DNR and the LNR to open humanitarian corridor
The DNR have agreed to open a humanitarian corridor for Ukrainian troops
United States will not seek a military confrontation with Russia - Washington expects that Moscow will act sanctions

[HR][/HR]

The idea seems to get as many Ukrainian troops on Russian territory, and further demoralize the Ukrainian army and weaken the government. I think Russia might be hoping for an internal uprising against Kiev by Yarosh and company, and his disgruntled Right Sector fighters.
 

Samar Rathi

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I remember that NYT article, with about 400 Ukrainian soldiers who rode buses and retreated, and were stopped for desertion.

There are more than 400 as media always suppressed the number. Also UKR army is pissed at government for not providing sufficient armament
 

Cadian

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A map from Novorossian source:



Meanwhile BBC has found a way to redraw their map so it looks not very disastrous (still hoping UA army will regain control?):

Yesterday:


Today:


 
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jouni

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Do you seriously believe in this? Just asking, no offence.
Yes I believe. This is how Great Nations are born, it needs those few who are ready to sacrifice and show the way. Independence is not given it is taken.
 

Cadian

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Yes I believe. This is how Great Nations are born, it needs those few who are ready to sacrifice and show the way. Independence is not given it is taken.
This is how Great Myths are born (not very Great actually - this episode is heavily used in heroic tales from almost any conflict in the world).

I'd like a more breathtaking story from June 26.

"When guys were surrounded by separatists, they huddled together, something whispered, and then stood in a circle and held hands. One of the paratroopers dropped into the center of the circle F-1 grenade ... They still lay, holding hands, when we picked up the body, barely able to separate their joined fingers, "- said the soldier of battalion Kirill Sergeyev.
Шесть бойцов батальона "Айдар" подорвали себя гранатой, чтобы не сдаваться в плен / Гордон

Yet there were 'separatists', now there will always be 'Russian paratroopers'.
 

jouni

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BREAKING NEWS! FINLAND WORK AS A MEDIATOR IN UKRAINE CRISIS WITH CATHERINE ASHTON AND CARL BILDT. NEW SPECIAL HEAD NEGOTIATOR APPOINTED.
 

jouni

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This is how Great Myths are born (not very Great actually - this episode is heavily used in heroic tales from almost any conflict in the world).

I'd like a more breathtaking story from June 26.


Шесть бойцов батальона "Айдар" подорвали себя гранатой, чтобы не сдаваться в плен / Гордон

Yet there were 'separatists', now there will always be 'Russian paratroopers'.
Yes, I saw the Paratroopers memorial in Pskov, impressive
 
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