Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak Army

bennedose

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

The Paki defence attache in the US wanted a signed copy of this book, with the cover torn off. This is what Christine Fair writes about her reaction :lol:
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So the Pak Defense Attache sent a minion to the Pentagon where I was presenting my book FIghting to the End to request that I sign my book for the DaT, a one Brig. "Cattar." (No offense to cat lovers intended.) I thought this was pretty rich after all the tattiyan they have pulled with me. It did not go go well for the minion. I told the minion that IF I signed it, it would say "Sub se bare ------- ke liye." And, if that was not acceptable, "Cattar sahab mere bund chum sakte hain." Said minion was amused and demanded that he be escorted out of the Pentagon. :rofl:

Upon reaching home, this is the message I dispatched to Brig. Cattar. (Name has been changed to protect the guilty.)

"Cattar

I was amused that you sent a minion to the Pentagon to request that I sign a copy of Fighting to the End for you. It was also rewarding to see that the cover was removed. I guess the cover's intimation was too salient for GHQ? As your messenger no doubt informed you, things did not go as planned. It seemed that he also had to send a rather rangila return message. Such is the perils of his job, I presume.

Cutting to the chase, you may find that the "be nice to your face, stab you in the back" approach works well with U.S. diplomats and those in uniform who suffer the nonsense of the ISI and the Pak Army per force or out of ignorance. However, it does not work with me.

I am utterly exhausted with your country's dangerous policies that have resulted in the deaths of Americans and our allies in Afghanistan. I am disgusted with your organization's continued support to groups like the Haqqani killers, the LeT (or whatever new name under which they operate) among others.

I find the treatment that I received from your organization and the ISI, which you represent in your present capacity, to be worthy only of the worst countries and appallingly gendered. Frankly, I can't understand why your organization(s) think(s) that bullying me will silence me in expressing my outrage against your country's numerous crimes. Being PNG'ed is like being pregnant: you can't get more pregnant.

That my country still writes checks to underwrite and incentivize your country's perfidy is gob-smacking.

I have absolutely no intention or desire to return to the country that your organization has ruined for the indefinite future.

You should know that while I am one of the few who will say these things clearly and publicly, many in the U.S. government share my views. They are simply more constrained than I am in saying so.

As the owner of this message, I will be posting this exchange to my social media as a public record of this exchange.

Warmest Regards,

C. Christine Fair, PhD
Cattar is a chap called Brigadier Abdullah Dogar - the Defence Attache to the US
 

hit&run

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

From ~45 to ~50 min about Modi and Nawaj Sharif meet.
 

hit&run

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

On helping Pakistan instead Iran who had good role after 9/11 and great chance missed using Chabhar port instead Karachi............she said we built a day care and put a priest in charge. HA HA HA HA HA............I had a massive laugh after so many days.
 

bennedose

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

Sridhar - an expert on Pakistan on BRF has done this annotation of the video. Here is a cut and paste

SSridhar said:
This is a summary [with some annotation] of Ms. C. Fair's talk at the Hudson Institute while introducing her new book, "Fighting to the End: Pakistan Army's Way to War". The video has been posted earlier here. Ms. Fair claims to have written the book by analyzing the Green Books (published since the 1970s), studying the military journals and extensive field study.

  • Pakistani military journals are not like normal military journals that one sees in the US or India. They do not discuss battles, military issues etc.
  • A reading of these journals indicates that Pakistan claims to be the only source of resistance to the rise of India and its hegemony. It has launched an asymmetric warfare against India since 1947 and though this has only brought it increasingly diminishing returns, it is persisting with its revisionism. It has been decisively defeated in 1971 and even in 1965 India could have decisively defeated it. Yet, it is not revising its policy.
  • Most people see Tehrik-e-Taliban (TTP) as a Pashtun problem, but its backbone lies in Punjab with the Punjabi jihadi terrorist groups of HuJI (Harkat-ul-Jihadi-Islami), JeM (Jaish-e-Muhammad), HuA (Harkat-ul-Ansar) and HuM (Harkat-ul-Mujahideen)
  • The conventional wisdom about Pakistan has been that it is a 'security-seeking state'. It would discard its Islamist proxies and the concept of 'strategic depth' if Kashmir is solved to its 'satisfaction'. Since c. 2008, another thesis was also floated that if Kashmir issue is resolved, the Afghanistan problem would also disappear. These are false.
  • There is no legitimacy to Pakistan's claims on Kashmir because the Maharajah acceded to India through an Instrument [of Accession]. Pakistan's claim on Kashmir is ideological and this does not square with a 'security-seeking' Pakistan because within Pakistani defence literature, Kashmir was never claimed as a buffer-state between itself and India, except for a recent Kayani article. The US has mistakenly treated Pakistan for six decades as a 'security-seeking' state and tried to buttress their military so that they felt more secure against India etc. This has failed because fundamentally Pakistan is *NOT* a security-seeking state; it is an ideological and 'greedy' state. Pakistan's goals vis-a-vis India are primarily, not exclusively, ideological. So, appeasement strategies, such as those by the US, are dangerous. 'Greedy states' are revisionist in nature and appeasement only encourages more greediness and 'further appeasement'. Glasser, U of Chicago, defines a 'greedy state' as one which is fundamentally dis-satisfied with status-quo and desirous of additional territory even when it is not required for its security. This definition describes Pakistan accurately for its desgns on India (Kashmir) and Afghanistan. Its 'strategic depth' concept is not a later-day invention attributed to Gen. Zia or Gen. Aslam Beg. Pakistan inherited this from the British.
  • Pakistan's revisionism dictates that even a rising and dominating India is in itself a defeat for Pakistan, even if here were to be no military defeat. The primary tool to defeat India is through an ever-increasing jihadi terrorism on it under a nuclear umbrella and a set of alliances with nations. Pakistan has a unique way to define 'victory' and 'defeat'. An example is its take on the humiliating 1971 defeat. Pakistani military journals do not describe that as a defeat because they had survived to fight another day. A Pakistani COAS told me, in the light of the Kargil defeat, "For us, doing nothing against India is in itself a defeat because that would tantamount to accepting Indian hegemony". The idea within the Pakistani military is that even if there was a very low probability of winning, Pakistan *must be seen trying* against India. While India would want to defeat the Pakistani military in an engagement, Pakistan simply wants to survive a fight. Anybody who opposes the military has to pay a heavy price. Within Pakistan itself, the Pakistani Army has not only threatened violence against political dispensations through coercion, but also has actually committed violence against anyone impeding them.
  • Partition really looms large in Pakistani defence litereature. There is a heart-burn that the division of India was unfair in 1947 not only because of the 'moth-eaten' Pakistan that resulted ultimately but also because India got most of the infrastructure and institutions. Those parts which became part of India had experienced more democratic traditions and experience in running institutions etc. However, even here, East Pakistan had many of these but the elites of West Pakistan chose to treat the East Pakistanis as second-class citizens. The Pakistani military also claims that, apart from these, it also got the 'restive portions' of India, namely the NWFP. It was thus not only an 'unfair' Partition but also an 'unfinished' Partition, because of Kashmir, Hyderabad and Junagadh. The Pakistani military also claims that India is implacably opposed to Pakistan, to its very existence as exemplified by the 1971 war. Its problems with Afghanistan, its perceived fear of India, its alliances with the US, and increasing proximity between India and the USSR on the one hand and that between Afghanistan & USSR on the other, all wrapped into a dogged pursuit of 'strategic depth'. Though some authors, these days, are talking in terms of Pakistan going up its 'strategic depth', it is nonsense because there are different forms of pursuing the same. This was the same approach of the British too. It only changes forms.
  • Is the past a prologue? Jihad is an instrment that was started by Pakistan in c. 1947, not as usually believed by many
    in c. 1990. The evolution of this 'jihad doctrine' is very evident in Pakistani military literature. While the Americans were training the Pakistani Army in the 1950s in counter insurgency [against a Communist invasion], the PA was secretively reverse engineering this into 'how to start an insurgency'. This slowly transformed into 'jihad' [as local situation within Pakistan also became conducive with Mawdudi et al]. By the turn of the 1970s, Pakistani military writers were already talking about what happens when, not if, Pakistan gets nuclear weapons. ZAB, as early as 1964, understood the need for nuclear weapons. Though ZAB went to Ayub with this request, he shrugged it off but said Pakistan could buy one off-the-shelf if needed. It was in the 1970s, when ZAB came to power, that the writers began saying that Kashmir should be re-opened after Pakistan acquired nuclear capability. So, Pakistan developed the concept of asymmetrical warfare as early as the 1970s, not 1990s.
  • What are the 'endogenous game changers' for a better Pakistan? Democratic transition could be one as many think. But, recent democratic changes offer only a limited optimism as the Army keeps important portfolios. The Pakistani Army knows how to get its bidding done without directly intervening. Unless the civilians have a complete control over the Army and unless the civilians show a different strategic culture and appreciation and handling of threat perceptions, which are significantly different from what the Army has been doing hitherto, democratic transition is not going to change matters. The 'Ideology of Pakistan' started with Gen. Ayub Khan when he re-aligned the school curriculum in line with this ideology. He has devoted an entire chapter to the Ideology in his book, "Friends, not Masters". The Pakistani Army diffused this idea by inculcating young minds. Some people talk of the Pakistani civil society as a game changer. The Pakistani civil society has a lot of uncivil elements. The small decent civil society members are no match to the uncivil elements at large in the society, as the followers of Jama'at-ud-Dawah on the Twitter prove. The present civil society is more conservative than their parents. So, the civil society cannot be an impetus for change. Others talk of the 'youth bulge'. This is a non-starter. Economics can be a game-changer too, but IMF is going to pay-off Pakistan each time.
  • The PA has been recruiting officers from more and more areas of Pakistan as part of their 'nation-building' goal, and these recruits do not share the views of the Punjabis. Punjabis in the Punjab are much more supportive of 'militarized jihad' than Punjabis elsewhere outside the Punjab. Non-Punjabis living in the Punjab think in the same way as the Punjabis. Ethnicity matters less than where you are born in Pakistan [or, more correctly, where you live]. If the PA continues to recruit from other parts of Pakistan because of its national goals, they are not going to share the 'core values' of the PA.
 

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

Sridhar - an expert on Pakistan on BRF has done this annotation of the video. Here is a cut and paste
Excellent points. Ms. C.Fair is spot on.

The whole purpose of existence of Pak military is to destroy India by hook or crook.

Compare that with other rivals like Japan-China who both have progressed to new highs by not being solely influenced by military, but not Pak. The generals there will forego progress and economic development just to watch India bleed. They will interfere by any means to retain political control and local idiotic population who support them come hell or high water there do no good either to their own cause.
 

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

Sridhar - an expert on Pakistan on BRF has done this annotation of the video. Here is a cut and paste
:dafuq:

I've been out of the loop too long. C. Fair used to be a compulsive Paki lover !
 

mattster

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

It is 1 hour 25 min long. Watch it all. I assure you that you will not regret it. It will be time well spent. @Ray @Blackwater
"Fighting to the End: The Pakistan Army's Way of War" - YouTube

If you summarize the whole video it would simply be this:

1) Pakistanti Army will never change its mindset of using Jihadi terror under a nuclear umbrella.

2) Winning is not really the point for the Pak Army - keeping India pinned down and bleeding slowly is the main point.

3) The Army does not need to do a coup to run the show from behind the scenes.

4) The US cannot really influence the Pakistani mindset.

5) The so-called "civil society" in Pak, is actually mostly made up of Jihadi thugs and psychos that are worse than the ones spawned by the Pak Army.

I can't think of another country except for some sub-Saharan basket cases like Sudan that have such a hopeless prognosis for the future.
 
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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

This is not surprising for us, lot has been said about the pak army, but what about american policies viz pakistan, pakistanis getting f-16's through jordanians without any american diaproval means US still supports pakistan and it will continue to support pakistan no matter what, or just that pakistan has US by the balls.

I mean, had if osama was found in Iran, it would have been bombed but nothing in pakistan apart some same old documentries, accusing pak military of duplicity, but US never learns.
 

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak


Just to show how due to wests stupidity, pakistan got their bomb.
 
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Kaalapani

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak


Just to show how due to wests stupidity, pakistan got their bomb.
USA of A actually supplied Pakistan with bombs.Rest is propoganda.

Pakistan cannot get nuclear weapons without American help.
 
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Singh

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

From ~45 to ~50 min about Modi and Nawaj Sharif meet.
:dafuq:

I've been out of the loop too long. C. Fair used to be a compulsive Paki lover !
C Fair has been anti-Pak afaik. Also massively anti-Modi.

I was defending Modi, in a spat between @Daredevil and her on twitter iirc
 
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Daredevil

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

C Fair has been anti-Pak afaik. Also massively anti-Modi.

I was defending Modi, in a spat between @Daredevil and her on twitter iirc
She was Paki-lover as long as it served her but once she got PNGed, she became viciously anti-pak.
 
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Apollyon

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

C. Fair is a rabid bitch on the inside.
To Indians - Anti-Pak ≠ Pro-India

C Fair has been anti-Pak afaik. Also massively anti-Modi.
I was defending Modi, in a spat between @Daredevil and her on twitter iirc
Link plis :ranger:
 
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Singh

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

She was Paki-lover as long as it served her but once she got PNGed, she became viciously anti-pak.
Pnged ?
Anyways she is a small fry even on the lecture circuit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Daredevil

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

Pnged ?
Anyways she is a small fry even on the lecture circuit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PNGed - Persona Non Grata by ISI. he cannot enter Pakistan anymore. She also said on twitter that if she dies mysteriously then she holds ISI responsible.
 

Yusuf

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

She blocked me on twitter for saying the things she is now saying about Pak. She blocked me coz I was too anti Pak for her comfort
 

bennedose

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

Wonder if we have a case of "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" here?
 

Yusuf

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

Wonder if we have a case of "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" here?
Lol possible. But there was a time till she was pro Pak and anti India. She said its India that's fermenting trouble in Balochistan etc.

What she has said is something we Indians with even a little interest in strategic affairs have been saying for donkeys years. Its nothing new for us.
 

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Re: Christine Fair's New Book and brilliant video interview about Pak

Wonder if we have a case of "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" here?
That seems to be the case. She was 'in service' [ not exactly appointed by and for] with Pakistan till she turned against [ it seems] [why? anybody's guess] She earlier could have been clubbed with other western apologists, who are hired to be the face of Pak Army/ISI to bring 'western credibility' or creating the so called neutral sources.

I shall not name who are/ were in the position and who are recently on-board, but who track developments in Pakistan will know.
 

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