"Christianity is not a Religion; it's a Philosophy"

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kseeker

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As we believe God is Omnipotent, similarly we believe God is not bound by genders since it was HE himself who created mankind in genders.

@kseeker, I hope your question was answered.
Sort of, not completely though. Omnipotent makes some sense however, that's debatable.

Perhaps, believers called GOD as Father since our society is/was dominated by males !

I am no expert in religion however, I read somewhere on the internet. According to Hindu mythology, Gods came from by ADI SHAKTHI, Adi Shakthi is again omnipotent but she is referred as female ! :hair:
 
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happy

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Sort of, not completely though. Omnipotent makes some sense however, that's debatable.

Perhaps, believers called GOD as Father since our society is/was dominated by males !

I am no expert in religion however, I read somewhere on the internet. According to Hindu mythology, Gods came from by ADI SHAKTHI, Adi Shakthi is again omnipotent but she is referred as female ! :hair:
Well, you have a point. I believe that it is impossible for mere humans to gauge the power of God. So I guess, this issue will remain under debate until the end of time.

I believe Hindu mythology revolves around the female as it was believed that since female gives birth/life through birth, she was considered as more powerful than male as we all know that giving life is more difficult than taking it :).
 

kseeker

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Well, you have a point. I believe that it is impossible for mere humans to gauge the power of God. So I guess, this issue will remain under debate until the end of time.
I agree !

I believe Hindu mythology revolves around the female as it was believed that since female gives birth/life through birth, she was considered as more powerful than male as we all know that giving life is more difficult than taking it :).
Couldn't agree more on this :)
 

Armand2REP

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Is it written in Bible or believers says so ?
It is written...

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out,

I beg to differ on this, My argument is very simple.

When one uses a crucifix as a physical representation/symbol of faith, that person is practicing idolatry by using an small idol (crucifix).

When a Christian holds his/her crucifix fixed in necklace to comfort himself/herself during the time of repentance, thanks giving or praying etc.., he or she is in fact worshiping the crucifix i.e. a small form an idol, thus practicing idolatry.
Where do you differ? If you draw comfort from a cross then you believe it is a conduit to God which is idolatry. If you wear it as jewelry to identify your faith, then it is symbolism.
 

kseeker

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It is written...

Where do you differ? If you draw comfort from a cross then you believe it is a conduit to God which is idolatry. If you wear it as jewelry to identify your faith, then it is symbolism.
So, you mean to say, wearing or holding crucifix is just Symbolism and not an idolatry ?
 

apple

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A DFI classic post, from the newest member of my ignore list. The text in red are my factual corrections

Some"Some" as in 100% of Christians think that since Jesus died for our sins, now we have the license to commit as much sin as we wantNo Christian thinks that, because we're all already savedPre destination is a complicated subject which I'm not willing to discuss here, particularly with you, but you're largely wrong.....but othersothers as in 100% of Christians disagree. On the other hand even the most righteous non-Christian is still condemned to hell even though he may never have even heardas has been raised a few times, in this very thread, for people who have not heard of Jesus, your statement is incorrect
Interesting post my objectives to your points in red.

If that be so then Bible should be a philosophical I think this is where my problem with your text, and indeed this whole thread, lays. I am a Christian. I don't care if Christianity, or the Holy Bible, is considered to a philosophy by anyone. document. It is not.

Christianity is based on:

1. God exists. And His existance is beyond our understanding
2. God created the world out of nothing ie creatio ex nihilo, about 6,000 years ago. Only certain Christian groups hold that Bible should be understood non figuratively and even amongst those groups "the date" when God founded everything is not universally agreed on.
3. Creation was in six days and seventh God rested. See above, same situation
4. Jesus was born of a virgin. Yes
5. You either believe or go to hell for eternal burning. Unless, for the second time in this post and who knows how many many times for the thread, you have never heard of Jesus.

1. If you see Upanishads, you will find all thoughts well argued. But Bible starts abruptly: In the beginning... No background, no philosophical preparation, nothing. Just like that.

For last 2,000 years Christians have been trying to prove the existence of God and failing. His existance is beyond our understanding. You seem, to a non Hindu, to have a good grasp of concepts of Hinduism. But "proofs" aren't that important for Christians, faith is. I'd query your claim Christians have been trying to prove God's existance. Some Christians, sure. But, all... don't believe that Centuries before Jesus, Nyaya had advanced nine proofs for existence of Brahma. They are the superset of all the }proofs" of Christian "philosophers". They were pounced upon by all the other Hindu schools of philosophy and shredded to pieces, and were discarded. All Hindu philosophers are agreed that such proofs cannot exist.

2. Ex creatio, in all fairness, was considered in Chhandogya, but rejected summarily.

Aruni replied to his guru "My dear how can anything come out of nothing?". Matter was not pursued further.

Christian philosophers have tried to prove it can happen. Augustine depended on Plato and his IDEAS. If something can be thought of it exists. Ergo, creatio ex nihilo can be thought and hence did happen. QED. But my dear, you can think of a barren woman's son too. No doubt Augustine's philosophy failed spectacularly in every sphere, be it creation, free will, hell fires or whatever.

Later Aquinas tried Aristotelian logic. And we know how deficient it is compared to Nayaya, Buddhist and Navya Nyaya logic. Latest is Kalam argument, a few centuries old. That is even a more spectacular damp squib.

Someone's logic is a damp squib, Thomas Aquinas was using deficient "Aristotelian" logic... While your points might make sense to you I; A) have no idea what, and mostly, who you're talking about and suspect that B) Once again you're raising points of no important to Christians. Kind of a Strawman argument. Is strange you mention Thomas Acquinas in this context, and not on the "proof" of God's existance as, to my understanding Aquanis's largeest influence on current "Christian Philosophy" would be an appreciation of his work by some who "prove" God by imaging Him as a doing i.e. as a verb and seek to comprehend omnipresence by His lack of application of power.

3. Creation was in six days? Really? And God was tired by Sunday ans slept!! Really? An omniopotent God gets tired? Once again, taking the Bible literally is not advised

It is known that world is much older. Latest estimates show it to be 13.8 billion yrs old. BUT, even there there are problems. Some quasars are found to at least 30-40 billion years old!!

4. Jesus born of virgin. Such thoughts are much older in western civilizations, though such a phenomenon cannot happen, else it would have repeated by modern science. Umm... what? How about I.V. insemination? And once again omnipotent.

5. Believe or go to hell. In fact NT goes further than that. If you have heard of Jesus, even accidentally, and fail to believe then hell is for you. Why didn't you write this in your introduction?

What about newly born babies who die? They too should go to hell Good point. No doubt Christian hell must be full of babies too. What is this philosophy? Augustine did invent a concept of Limbo for such babies. Call it the fate of Trishanku, neither here nor there.

In fact Christianity is not at all based on any philosophy. Rather an attempt has been made to push philosophy under it. Disagree with you, but respect your opinion and can understand why you'd believe that.
 

happy

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A DFI classic post, from the newest member of my ignore list. The text in red are my factual corrections



Interesting post my objectives to your points in red.
Well, I don't think that those who posted those comments did it out of ignorance. NO, they did it just to satisfy their carnal urge of trying to be self righteous.
 

Armand2REP

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Then why in Medieval age scientists were persecuted? Why Galileo was tortured? Christian Church supported Geocentric theory. Not to mention Earth is 6000 years old and it was created by God.
There is more than one Christian church. Catholicism was created as a means of control, the Protestant Reformation fixed its inequities and corruption for those wise enough to leave it. God created the universe in a week by cosmic time. His day is 800m years according to science. Big Bang theory is conveyed in Genesis.

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light

Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out
Big Bang was a massive explosion of light that sent all matter on an expanding course... it is described as best as ancients knew how in the first day of creation.

On the second day the oceans were made. This is the first requirement for life according to science.

On the third day the continents formed and plants grew, the is the second requirement to create an oxygen atmosphere.

On the fifth day the first life on the planet came to sea, this is the next step according to evolution.

On the sixth day the beasts and then man were placed. According to evolution they came from the water which according to the bible was the first life. The Bible doesn't say they stepped out of the water but it doesn't say they didn't either. In that 500m years before man, the animals were not described except as appearing. The Bible doesn't deny how they evolved.

So creationists nut jobs can deny evolution and the big bang, but I say Genesis supports the theory.

May be, but no where Bible says God can be of both genders, God is simply called Father, not Mother why? I agree ancient Aramaic and Arabic "he" was used, dont know much about it, but today we can certainly call God Mother, no we dont why? And now here Bible says God can be both called he and she.
Because early Abrahamic religion was male dominated with men providing for the family. This is the role of God to us so he has a paternal identity. In my view God has no gender so arguing that with me is moot.

He/she is not among us. We know God is very powerful so if God was within us, then no one could kill each other as killing each other means killing God. Further if we all have Gods among us, then from our brutal fighting among us, it appears we all have different Gods within us as 1) if we have same God then he/she would not allow their different organs to fighting among them as same God is among us, so which God is among us is certainly different. We all know man cant kill God, but God can kill. If we all have Gods within us, then we are all God, and hence we kill each other so God kills each other and such God is not peace loving for sure.
Calling God a He/She doesn't make for good connections. We all have the Holy Spirit within us, it is our personal connection to God, of which there is only one. God gave us free will and sent Satan to tempt man. He created us because he was lonely and making a bunch of worship robots would be too boring. He had to give us challenges and choices. People choose to be good or evil.

I dont see difference. If God's ours beyond of ability to imagine, then we must accept some thing as symbol of God, in addition adding idols make worshipping place beautiful. Idolatry this word came from worshipping in front of idol which others thought we are worshipping idols actually. Infact idol was created to reflect God through symbol to common public. Much like Crucifix. You respect Crucifix, we respect idols, but we dont worship nor respect them. They are symbol of God.
In the Old Testament, worship places were as simple as a stone slab used as an alter. God never told us to make ornate churches to show his glory. In fact, The most important example Christ set was to be humble and his disciples were required to give away all earthly possessions. The cross has no meaning to me.

I am sure God does not exist, and many logics to prove it. But nevertheless believing in God decrease your headache as well as gives mental peace. And also believing in God keeps a fear alive that if we do sin(generally all sins are bad works) then God will punish us in after life. So we should not commit sin. Then we can go to Heaven. This Hell and Heaven concept helps to keep society clean.
99% of the world believes in a higher power and afterlife. Why is that? Atheists are usually cynical and skeptical people. It doesn't sound like they have much peace or contentment in their lives. I don't want to live like that. It doesn't hurt me to believe in something far greater than myself and that my spirit is eternal. It brings me peace and comfort. It also makes me a better person.
 

Eesh

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@apple #46

I wouild have been thankful if you had given an itemised reply to my itemised points.

1. Are we saved by "sacrifice" of Jesus? If so, then there is no further need of him. Period. No need of baptism, pope or church.

2. If pre-destination is a fact, then Jesus becomes irelevant. Why are you shy of discussing pre-destination? Do it in a seperate thread, please. I will reply you point by point.

3. So bible is not a philosophuical document. So you too agree.

4. God is beyond comprehension. Yes. Then why are xian sites full of "proofs" of his existence? Either you pretend or don't know that even Aquinas tried his hand on this exercise. Heard of him? That man who justified Inquisition, quoting bible?

5. Six day creation. After it was shown to be outrageously wrong, many christians advanced (a) Young earth (b) no st young earth (c) God'sday is not same as man's day. How many of what makes the other?

6. Is biblical virgin birth really IV insemination? Astounding, to say the least. If In say the most you would not like. But IV insemination does not pre suppose virginity, in fact cannot. AND birth would leave the mother with a burst hymen. Or Jesus was born by a C-section?

7. To start with Aristotelian logic is deficient. Aquinas brought it into such a disrepute that for centuries philosophers took LOGIC as a bull takes a red rag.

8. If I cannot interpret bible myself then I have to be mortally dependent on YOUS, giving a twisted meaning to every thing. Was creation in SIX days out of NOTHING or NOT?
 
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Waffen SS

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There is more than one Christian church. Catholicism was created as a means of control, the Protestant Reformation fixed its inequities and corruption for those wise enough to leave it. God created the universe in a week by cosmic time. His day is 800m years according to science. Big Bang theory is conveyed in Genesis.
So here are you claiming Catholics are not true Christians? Like Shia's say Sunnis are not true Muslims?


Big Bang was a massive explosion of light that sent all matter on an expanding course... it is described as best as ancients knew how in the first day of creation.

On the second day the oceans were made. This is the first requirement for life according to science.
Is it possible to make ocean with out making water and soil?

On the third day the continents formed and plants grew, the is the second requirement to create an oxygen atmosphere.

On the fifth day the first life on the planet came to sea, this is the next step according to evolution.

On the sixth day the beasts and then man were placed. According to evolution they came from the water which according to the bible was the first life. The Bible doesn't say they stepped out of the water but it doesn't say they didn't either. In that 500m years before man, the animals were not described except as appearing. The Bible doesn't deny how they evolved.
Here it contradicts, plants also have lives, you know it or no? Here your theory fails. So hence plants grew up in land to make oxygen then first life came in land rather than sea, but Science says first live came from sea, it was Amiba. So it fails.

Bible says like this- Adam and Eve were created by God, suddenly they committed sin God was angry and sent them to earth. If Bible does not deny evolution then how Adam and Eve can be said was made by God with out evolution? And we know at first monkey looking creature came then after evolution that became human, but according to Bible God created human directly, it indicates Bible indirectly denies evolution.

Calling God a He/She doesn't make for good connections. We all have the Holy Spirit within us, it is our personal connection to God, of which there is only one. God gave us free will and sent Satan to tempt man. He created us because he was lonely and making a bunch of worship robots would be too boring. He had to give us challenges and choices. People choose to be good or evil.
If God loves then why did he send Satan to tempt us after all? If he created us because he is lonely then why did he expel us from Heaven? If he is lonely then why he does not live in Earth with his creation Human instead of Heaven? Finally if we Humans have our Human Gods then Aliens also have their religion and God, so which God created this? If we had no idea of Satan after all then we would have eternal peace.

In the Old Testament, worship places were as simple as a stone slab used as an alter. God never told us to make ornate churches to show his glory. In fact, The most important example Christ set was to be humble and his disciples were required to give away all earthly possessions. The cross has no meaning to me.
It is early Christianity, all religion in their early stages were pure and good. There are various sects in Hinduism who does not do idol worship, such as Brahmo, they believe God is eternal and God does not stay in idols. Majority of Christians and Hindus believe that God is in Crucifix and Idols.

99% of the world believes in a higher power and afterlife. Why is that? Atheists are usually cynical and skeptical people. It doesn't sound like they have much peace or contentment in their lives. I don't want to live like that. It doesn't hurt me to believe in something far greater than myself and that my spirit is eternal. It brings me peace and comfort. It also makes me a better person.
It is purely a personal matter. I already said God exists or not but believing in it keeps your mind cool.:cool2::cool: that's why I gave you a story.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/military-aviation/55830-dutch-f-16-mistakenly-strafes-range-control-tower.html Read here my comment and wake up.:wakeup::wakeup:

Hell I want to send you PM. Can you enable it? :pray::pray:
 
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Eesh

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@Armand2REP #48


Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

That was fourth day when sun and moon were created. How on earth or in heaven were the days determined?

Bible does NOT support evolution. Luther and later Calvin were for LITERAL interpretation of bible. So much for reformation.

I wonder why Darwinism has been attacked by the church? Why were the Stopes trials?

At the Reformation the vast authority of Luther was thrown in favour of the literal acceptance of Scripture as the main source of natural science. The allegorical and mystical interpretations of earlier theologians he utterly rejected. "Why," he asks, "should Moses use allegory when he is not speaking of allegorical creatures or of an allegorical world, but of real creatures and of a visible world, which can be seen, felt, and grasped? Moses calls things by their right names, as we ought to do....I hold that the animals took their being at once upon the word of God, as did also the fishes in the sea."

Lols. You have given some garbled version of Avataras.
 
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happy

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There is more than one Christian church. Catholicism was created as a means of control, the Protestant Reformation fixed its inequities and corruption for those wise enough to leave it. God created the universe in a week by cosmic time. His day is 800m years according to science. Big Bang theory is conveyed in Genesis.
Can you please explain the bold part ? It is interesting to know how we can come to the conclusion that it was cosmic time because that is also not mentioned anywhere in the Bible ??

I was always of the view that 1 day in God's time was far longer than what we could comprehend but fixing it to a finite time is fascinating. Helps to know more about God.
 

Armand2REP

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So here are you claiming Catholics are not true Christians? Like Shia's say Sunnis are not true Muslims?
Not at all. Anyone who believes John 3:16 is a Christian. I am calling the ancient Catholic Church corrupt and abusive. You have to remember it was created by the Romans to unite an empire and to keep control of the masses during the Middle Ages. It took some doing to get over that.

Is it possible to make ocean with out making water and soil?
That is described on the second day...

And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

Now I find this passage interesting as it suggests that water particles collected in the atmosphere and rained into seas. This is one of two theories that researchers stipulate as to how water got here. The one this supports is the orbit of the young Earth passed through the water rich nebula of our forming solar system. The other is the theory it was brought by asteroids. Considering how much water is on the planet, I take the Biblical approach.

Here it contradicts, plants also have lives, you know it or no? Here your theory fails. So hence plants grew up in land to make oxygen then first life came in land rather than sea, but Science says first live came from sea, it was Amiba. So it fails.
How? The sea was created long before plants so your debunking theory fails. The Genesis creation story doesn't explain everything, but the order of events is what I am showing is correct.

Bible says like this- Adam and Eve were created by God, suddenly they committed sin God was angry and sent them to earth. If Bible does not deny evolution then how Adam and Eve can be said was made by God with out evolution? And we know at first monkey looking creature came then after evolution that became human, but according to Bible God created human directly, it indicates Bible indirectly denies evolution.
They were always on Earth. The Bible says man was made from the dust of the Earth. Does that statement deny evolution? It might read like it was instantaneous, but according to how long things actually took, 6 days being 6 billion years that process could have taken millennia. Life on this planet did come from its dust and it returns to dust when it dies. Genesis neither confirms nor denies the theory of evolution.

If God loves then why did he send Satan to tempt us after all? If he created us because he is lonely then why did he expel us from Heaven? If he is lonely then why he does not live in Earth with his creation Human instead of Heaven? Finally if we Humans have our Human Gods then Aliens also have their religion and God, so which God created this? If we had no idea of Satan after all then we would have eternal peace.
Like I said before, there is no point in God creating a bunch of robots to run around shouting praise God. He gave us the freedom of choice. He wants us to come to the conclusion on our own and it comes with obstacles. Like the saying goes, nothing worth having comes easy. God already tried giving us utopia and we screwed it up.

It is early Christianity, all religion in their early stages were pure and good. There are various sects in Hinduism who does not do idol worship, such as Brahmo, they believe God is eternal and God does not stay in idols. Majority of Christians and Hindus believe that God is in Crucifix and Idols.
Maybe so, what they believed back then doesn't concern me today. Only the word matters.
 

Eesh

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#53 @Armand2REP

6 days "could" be 6 billion years. Where is it mentioned by Bible, Augustine, Aquinas etc?
 
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Libertarian

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A philosophy that says only their way is the 'true' way and anyone who doesn't follow their way is evil and to be converted or killed.
Quit spewing Hindutva propaganda. Christianity does not promote conversions through violence of any kind. It actually goes against the central tenets of Christianity. It's not at all condoned in the Bible.
 

Defenceindia2010

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Quit spewing Hindutva propaganda. Christianity does not promote conversions through violence of any kind. It actually goes against the central tenets of Christianity. It's not at all condoned in the Bible.
This is not Hindutva propaganda this is a main stream though in Christianity which states that ''their way to salvation as being the only one and all who do not accept that will be condemned to Hell on the day of Judgment''. So lets get away from what is suppose to be and talk about what is practiced in the real world. :dharma:
 

Libertarian

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This is not Hindutva propaganda this is a main stream though in Christianity which states that ''their way to salvation as being the only one and all who do not accept that will be condemned to Hell on the day of Judgment''. So lets get away from what is suppose to be and talk about what is practiced in the real world. :dharma:
That's true, but violence is not permitted in Christianity.
 
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