Chinese Troops Intrude into Indian Territory in Ladakh!!!

what options India have if china doesn't pull back from ladakh?


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Kunal Biswas

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They should have encircled them by three sides, And IAF should be deployed in the region so does PJ-10 as back up, this would send bell ring how serious we are..
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Re: India moves infantry regiment to Ladakh to counter Chinese incursi

Ladakh incursion: India, China face-off at the ‘gate of hell’ - Firstpost

Yarkandi caravan guides on the great Himal's routes to Leh, might have mapped the journey thus: from the great plains, climb into the pass of the black gravel, the Karakoram. From there, cross the Chip-Chap, the very quiet river, to reach Daulat Beg Oldi, the spot where the great and rich man died,. Then, you reach a long open space, the Depsang plateau, leading on to the Qazi Langar, a qazi, or cleric once ran a kitchen. Then comes the camp at Burtsé, named for shrubs that can heal wounds, and burn well. Now, ahead, lies the Mur-go, the gate to hell.

Earlier this summer, a platoon of People's Liberation Army made the journey so evocatively described by the great mountaineer Harish Kapadia, planting itself in abandoned Indian army huts. Indian army sources say this isn't the first time Chinese patrols have entered the area—but they have never held a position like this before. Flag meetings have been called to resolve the issue, but India has also positioned troops some 500 metres away.

Does the gate to hell lie ahead?

For years now, Indian military strategists have worried about just such an outcome. Fears of growing Chinese nationalism, backed by military might, have grown on the back of China's increasingly muscular posture on its eastern seaboard. Back in 2008, Defence Minister AK Anthony is believed to have issued a formal directive calling on the armed forces to prepare for a two-front war. In 2010, former Army Chief Deepak Kapoor publicly spoke of preparing for a two-front war. Mulayam Singh Yadav, India's former Defence Minister, even told Parliament in November 2011 that he had evidence China was "going to attack us soon".
Antennae-on-LoC_380

The Siachen sector, next to Daulat Beg Oldi, in India. Praveen Swami/ Firstpost

India has responded, the defence expert Ajai Shukla notes, by significantly enhancing its offensive resources—notably, by committing to set up an entire new mountain strike corps. Its built a string of forward airstrips in the region, including one at Daulat Beg Oldi, allowing for troops to be moved quickly. Last March, though, a leaked letter by former army chief General VK Singh warning of "hollowness" in Indian defences provoked anxieties about whether India was ready for the emerging threat.

The facts behind these fears are simple. China's declared military budget for this year is $117 billion, up from $106.4 billion in 2012-2013 and $91.5 billion in 2011-12. For the past decade, China's military budget has expanded at about 12%, ahead of its economic growth. The country expanding its cruise and ballistic missile arsenal; the new Dong Feng-21D, comes with a manoeuvrable warhead that constitutes the first serious threat to United States carriers supremacy in the Pacific. It has rolled out a prototype for a fifth-generation stealth fighter and inducted an aircraft carrier.

Fearsome as China's military build-up might be, though, it isn't clear if Indians need to be terrified. Eight of China's 18 Group Armies—the equivalent, roughly, of an Indian corps—face out on its south-eastern seaboard. Throughout China's military modernisation drive, the United States defence department has noted in its 2012 report, "Taiwan contingency planning has dominated the agenda". "Even though cross-Strait tensions have subsided since 2008, Taiwan remains a critical mission, and the PLA continues building capabilities aimed at Taiwan and at deterring, delaying, or denying possible third party intervention in a cross-Strait conflict".

Taiwan isn't, moreover, China's only military concern. In the Koreas, the PLA must plan for possible war; in Xinjiang and Tibet for insurgencies; on the high seas, for control of trade routes and oil.

Last year, in a talk delivered around the same time Yadav was holding out his prediction of imminent assault, the scholar Kanti Bajpai offered several sound military reasons why the risks of war with China are low. He pointed to the difficulties in destroying India's Air Force, necessary to secure China's logistics; the robust defensive positions occupied by India's Army in the Himalayas; the limited capabilities of the PLA navy to wage a campaign in the Indian Ocean.

Bajpai concluded by asserting that "war between the two countries is not very likely unless one or the other engages in highly provocative, ill-judged behaviour—and even then, with nuclear weapons and air power, it would be very risky to go to war".

Events in Daulat Beg Oldi, though, are leading China sceptics to argue that its behaviour exactly that: ill-judged and highly-provocative. The foundational cause of the 1962 war, the Burtsé incident shows, persists: the fact that India and China cannot agree on their frontiers. The two countries, the scholar Wahegurupal Singh Sidhu notes never even demarcated the Line of Actual control after the ceasefire agreement of November 21, 1962—which means there is "disagreement on both sides as to the precise location of the LAC in many areas".

Brigadier John Dalvi's must-read book on the causes of the 1962 war, as well as the assessments of experts like AG Noorani, show prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru's ill-conceived policies on the border led India into a crisis it wasn't prepared for—but still has to live with.

The last round of India-China, in December 2012, ended with excellent atmospherics—but there's been little forward movement. In essence, China has refused to bargain territory it holds in Aksai Chin, on the northern reaches of the LAC, while India will make no concessions on Arunachal Pradesh, to its east. China refuses to accept the LAC as a border, and thus has every interest in keeping it unsettled with low-grade incursions—or, from its point of view, demonstrations of presence in territory it claims to be its own. There have, by some estimates, been over 500 of these—though none, it bears mention, have ended in actual shooting.

In a thoughtful commentary, Singapore-based scholar PS Surayanarayana observed that "enter into a border settlement when both recognise that the cost of not settling the issue outweighs the cost of a continuation of stalemate"—which, put another way, is no time soon.
The disputed region.

India's eastern border with China

For both countries, there are excellent reasons to avoid a crisis: a burgeoning trade relationship, multiple crisis with other neighbours, and, above all, the absence of any dividend from war. Yet, neither is willing to pay the political costs that will come with territorial compromise.

The problem with simmering conflicts is that they can only too easily burst into full-blown ones: nations can't always rely on the wisdom of politicians to avert crisis. In 1986, China moved troops into Sumdorong Chu, facing Tawang—the site of one of India's worst defeats in the war. Then army chief General Krishnaswami Sundarji flew in an entire brigade north of Tawang, leading to a build-up and belligerent language. Rajiv Gandhi's advisors blamed Sundarji for precipitating a crisis—leading the army chief to suggest the prime minister to "please make alternate arrangements if you think you are not getting adequate professional advice".

Sundarji's resolve paid off—and the crisis petered off. India's now done the same thing in Burtsé, though on a much smaller scale. The odds are this face-off will end peacefully, but we can't work on the assumption the outcomes of future confrontations will have a happy ending.

In 1928, the colonial explorer F Ludlow travelled down the Karakoram towards Daulat Beg Oldi. Ludlow's map told him of a camp where three huts were available. "It did", he wrote. And when I arrived, I found them all occupied — one by a dead pony, the second by a dead donkey, and the third by a dead Yarkandi". Further ahead "a pile of stones and mud had been erected against the face of a cliff to form a shelter from the wind. I looked inside this shelter and found it contained three skulls and other gruesome human remains".

That, we can only hope, doesn't turn out to be a vision of the future as well.
 

hit&run

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People who say incursion are normal and are due to differing perceptions of both sides then they do not know how armies plan their moves even regular patrols for specific objectives.

Better they shouldn't talk.

Chinese army helicopters violated Indian airspace: sources | NDTV.com

Indian government officials have confirmed that on the night of April 15, two helicopters gave support to the Chinese as they set up temporary posts on the Indian side of the disputed border.
Mods now we have two thread on this topic please merge.
Regards
 

nimo_cn

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Please take care while eating Pigs(read Chinese in this case) since they might be contaminated as were 20,000 Pigs in China.:lol:
dont forget adding the most important ingredient curry!

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
 

tramp

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Government hopes row with China in Ladakh will be resolved peacefully - The Times of India
NEW DELHI: The government is confident that the trouble with China in the Ladakh region will be resolved peacefully.

Briefing reporters on Tuesday, the ministry of external affairs attributed the trouble in Ladakh region to the difference of perceptions on the line of actual control.

The MEA has described the trouble as 'face-to-face situation', a condition which arises due to difference in perception on LAC and calls for exercise of restraint.

The govt has asked China to maintain status quo prior to this incident.

According to Times Now, Army chief Gen Bikram Singh has reached Jammu and Kashmir and will take stock of the situation.

Meanwhile, the second flag meeting between the local commanders of the two armies, which started at 10.30am, is still underway.

Local military commanders are meeting in a bid to resolve the situation arising out of the incursion by Chinese troops in Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector in Ladakh.

The flag meeting is being held in Daulat Beg Oldi sector, sources said.

India had raised the issue with China last week during the first flag meeting on April 18, immediately after the incident of the Chinese incursion came to light.

Apart from summoning the Chinese ambassador to South Block, the joint secretary in MEA, who is heading the India-China joint working mechanism to deal with issues on the boundary from the Indian side, spoke to his counterpart in Beijing last week, emphasising on the need to resolve the issue.

Foreign secretary Ranjan Mathai had summoned the Chinese ambassador Wei Wei to South Block and stressed the need for resolving the issue, the sources said.

The Chinese side said they will look into the issue and respond accordingly.

However, when contacted the Chinese embassy in New Delhi reiterated the comments made by their foreign ministry spokesperson in Beijing on Monday.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying had said on Monday that "China's frontier troops have been abiding by the agreement between the two countries and abiding by the LAC agreed by the two countries.

"Our frontier troops have been patrolling on the China's side of LAC", Hua had said, adding, "Our troops are patrolling on the Chinese side of the LAC and have never trespassed the line".

Chinese embassy officials maintained that China is ready to work with the Indian side to further the coordination and cooperation on the issues of boundary.

A platoon-strength contingent of China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) came 10 km inside the Indian territory in Burthe in DBO sector, which is at an altitude of about 17,000 feet, on the night of April 15 and established a tented post there, according to highly placed sources.

Defence minister AK Antony had said on Monday that India will take "every step" to protect its interests to resolve the situation arising out of the incursion.
 

sorcerer

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Being a "soverign" commic nation China has to be open for dialogues. China has to shave their 'diplomatic' face and keep it clean in front of the international community.
Its understood that China is new to the policies of diplomacy. They must be thinking that the whole world is some kinda coal mine and they can send in their slaves to mine it, just like they do inside their border with their own citizens.

One of the instrument they mastered is deception.In this case, they sent a team just with small fire arms. Scouts probably meaning what ever they do, should not be taken as an act of aggression so that they can 'get along' with their cooked up story.
Deception..what ever....

We do understand that India is nation which is built around the idea of tolerance and peace. We have always practiced diplomacy and ethics, not deception and threats. This is one reason for the respect which our country recieves from international community.

India has to make sure that, it does every right thing from part of a nation and as a nation across the table to find a solution to the situation. If everything fails, our actions will be understood by the international community- may be in a way isolate China.
Not many are happy with China now, China has ruffled not just the feathers of US via NK but also many of its neighbors.
China is heading badly for a diplomatic bukkake with China at the recieving end.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Armored Brigade consist of T-72 which cannot support Infantry where it is needed, Lack of Light tanks..

Where is Arty and AD ??
 

asianobserve

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This Chinese will be the most dangerous superpower if they become one. There should be no mistake who is the real strategic danger to Asia...
 

tramp

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Apparently similar incursions are common from the Chinese side. But they never stay on. Now the question is:

Has the Chinese policy changed with a new leadership in place?

With China already lighting small fires along the border with neighbors on the eastern front over South China Sea and an the ongoing Korea standoff, if they are lighting another fire on the southern front, they must be up to something. Are they trying show they are tough and can tackle issues on several fronts at the same time?

Or, is this part of posturing like all new leaderships in dictatorships -- party dictatorship or single person dictatorship -- turn to in order to consolidate their domestic position. Though the Chinese Communist party appears to be monolithic to the outside world, it is hardly so. And a new leadership, however strong it appears, need to do some posturing to consolidate positions and legitimize rise to power.,

It could be either of this. But India needs to act decisively. I heard Times Now saying its 18km into the LAC.
 

Decklander

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The situation might reverse in next few years once US starts large scale oil exports from Alaska region as its oil production from hinterland picks up. China will be forced to buy US oil to maintain balance of trade and the one trillion invested in US bonds will flow back to US within five years. That will give US a much bigger space to outflank China in terms of economic muscle and also create real problems for Russia as we can already see the effect of meagre US oil exports on world oil market. All the investments in oil sector and gold have started trumbling down. This year El Nino is likely to be weak which means a big chance of crop failure in Russia & china this year.
 

Decklander

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OMG, GOI is telling lies to the nation. Actually its 18 kms. Its time to teach these chinese a lesson. We must do what we did in Kargil and teach these guys another bloody lesson.
 

rock127

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Is this the beginning of Kargil II Chinese Version?? :hmm:

The situation was similar in 1999 where Govt downplayed its seriousness and soldiers paid the price. :tsk:
 

rock127

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dont forget adding the most important ingredient curry!

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
Who said we are going to eat Chinese(Pigs)???

The river turned into a curry for Chinese when 20,000 Pigs floated dead for days making it another typical weird Chinese delicacy.
 
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amoy

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This Chinese will be the most dangerous superpower if they become one. There should be no mistake who is the real strategic danger to Asia...
Are u trying to say u're more comfortable in a Malaysia of purely Malay Muslims free from Chinese and Indians?

Without China India's hegemony over the subcontinent could have come true, upsetting the regional peace.

What LAC? Is it mutually accepted? Even Ladakh culturally more affiliated with Tibet, was annexed by Kashmir Maharaja only in 1834.
 

sorcerer

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Some analyst said "Its hard for chinese to maintain that posion becuase it is an isolated spot.They wont be able to sustain it for long and they will go back."
wow! They will starve and then scramble on their knees back home.
*touching.

So everytime they put a lil excursion into our Indian territory, we just need to wait it out till they are hungry.
Problemo Solved.
 

SajeevJino

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still the Chinese are in India ..I want to play cricket with them to make relationship ...shit .
 

Decklander

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still the Chinese are in India ..I want to play cricket with them to make relationship ...shit .
Actually this is the worst problem of Khan-grass. They can't call off hockey and cricket tours of chinese teams and term it as the strongest possible action they do not play cricket.
 

sorcerer

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Are u trying to say u're more comfortable in a Malaysia of purely Malay Muslims free from Chinese and Indians?

Without China India's hegemony over the subcontinent could have come true, upsetting the regional peace.

What LAC? Is it mutually accepted? Even Ladakh culturally more affiliated with Tibet, was annexed by Kashmir Maharaja only in 1834.
Are you for real?
The whole world knows that its China who has made NK and PAK a real headache for international community.Regional peace..eh?
Reading it I felt like you had a nice trade off..You Chinese give the Pak so called technology, Pak gives you their commonsense?
:rofl:
China is preaching peace? Very funny.
Well..As usual, your media wont be reporting what all messups your politicians are doing with bordering nations.
We understand
 
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