Chinese to be made compulsory in Sindh schools

niharjhatn

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I shared my experiences of China, have you even been? Go experience the world before you talk about people who have.

You took a year of French yet no one learns French? :lol: It is standard curriculum in most Western secondary schools, not to mention the official language of 43 countries and territories making up 17% of the UN General Assembly. As a travel language, It is the second most important language for getting around Europe, the most important in Africa, quite useful in the South Pacific and Caribbean, Canada, IOR. It is the second most recognised lingua franca after English.

How important is Hindi or Mandarin for that matter? A few countries with diasporas? When I was running through language tapes for South Asia, I was taking Urdu, not Hindi.
I have to agree with you - French is definitely much more widespread than Hindi, and is present in more diversity than Mandarin (whichi is only really widespread by sheer virtue of emigration).

Ultimately however, it pales in comparison to English, which has dominated the world due to the British and Americans. Whilst French can be considered as second most recognised lingua franca after English, such status is rather meaningless. Ultimately, everything rides on context, and were we to take America for an example, whilst French may be more useful and recognised as the second lingua franca after English in some areas, in others, Spanish would.

It is not surprising that French is so widespread, as after all, the role that France played in Europe (and the world!) in the last couple of centuries is akin to that of the Ancient Greeks of old - functioning as the cultural hub of Europe.

India has always had an issue with exclusitivity of languages, the teaching of Sanskrit, even in the relatively recent days of Ambedkar, was tightly controlled - when there is such restrictions in place within a nation, how can it spread?

The way the ideas and teachings delivered through Sanskrit had stormed into consciousness of not only Indians, but numerous other asian nations (and beyond!) millenia ago would perhaps suggest a more widespread dispora speaking Indian languages, however, this is not the case; and I think the exclusitivity of Sanskrit had a major role to play in this.
 

kickok1975

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Most Difficult Language To Learn

1) Chinese: Many factors make Chinese very difficult to learn. For example the characters (Hanzi) used in the writing system seem to be archaic and obscure. Every word is a different symbol and it's not phonetic so it gives you no clues as to how it is pronounced. The tone system also is a pain because Mandarin has four tones. One other reason is, Mandarin has a large number of homophones. For example, the pronunciation "shì" is associated with over thirty distinct morphemes. Some people try to learn this language for that specific reason, being difficult and different.

2) Arabic: The first challenge is the script. Most of the letters have four different forms, depending on where they stand in the word, also, vowels are not included when writing. The sounds are tough, but the words are tougher. An English-speaking student learning a European language will run across many familiar-looking words, but English-speaking Arabic students are not so lucky. Arabic is a VSO language, which means the verb usually comes before the subject and object. It has a dual number, so nouns and verbs must be learned in singular, dual, and plural. A present-tense verb has thirteen forms. There are three noun cases and two genders. The other problem is dialects. Arabic spoken in Morocco is as different from Arabic spoken in Egypt and from Modern Standard as French is from Spanish and Latin.

3) Tuyuca: a language of the eastern Amazon. Tuyuca has a sound system with simple consonants and a few nasal vowels, so is not as hard to speak. However it is heavily agglutinating. For example one word, "hóabãsiriga" means "I do not know how to write". It has two words for "we", inclusive and exclusive. The noun classes (genders) in Tuyuca's language family (including close relatives) have been estimated at between fifty and 140. Most fascinating is that Tuyuca requires verb-endings on statements to show how the speaker knows something. Diga ape-wi means that "the boy played soccer (I know because I saw him)". English can provide such information, but for Tuyuca that is an obligatory ending on the verb. Evidential languages force speakers to think hard about how they learned what they say they know.

4) Hungarian: First of all, Hungarian has 35 cases or noun forms. That fact alone makes it a candidate in this list. Hungarian is full of very expressive, idiomatic words, and suffixes. The high amount of vowels and their deep-in-the throat sound makes it very hard to speak as well. It takes more effort to learn it and maintain what you learned then most other languages.

5) Japanese: One main reason why Japanese is so hard is that the written code is different from the spoken code. Therefore, you can't learn to speak the language by learning to read it, and vice versa. What's more, there are three different writing systems to master. The kanji system uses characters borrowed from Chinese. Students need to learn 10,000 to 15,000 of these characters through rote memorization; there are no mnemonic devices to help. Written Japanese also makes use of two syllabary systems: katakana for loan words and emphasis, and hiragana for spelling suffixes and grammatical particles. The State Department allows its students three times as long to learn Japanese as it does languages like Spanish or French.

6) Navajo: This fascinating language can be the most difficult as well. During World War II, the language was used as a code in the Pacific War by bilingual Navajo code talkers to send secure military messages over radio. This had the advantage of being an extremely fast method of encrypted communication. The code was never broken by the Japanese, who were mystified by the sounds they intercepted. Navajo was not chosen as a code language only because it is very hard but also because there was no published grammar or dictionary of the language and because native speakers were readily available. Nearly everything that a language must do is done differently by Navajo than by English. For example in English, we only mark one person on the verb--third person singular, present tense (I read --> he reads) with a suffix. Navajo marks all of the persons with a prefix on the verb.

7) Estonian: This language makes the list too. Estonian has a very rigid case system. "Case" is a grammatical system under which words inflect based on their grammatical function in a sentence. There are twelve cases in Estonian, more than two times the number of cases that exist in most Slavic languages. Apart from the fact that Estonian has many cases, this language is also hard because it has many exceptions in grammar rules, also, many words mean several different things.

8) Basque is also up on top based on a study made by the British Foreign Office. The Basque language has 24 cases. It is impossible to link Basque with any Indo-European language. Basque is probably the oldest known spoken language in Europe. Basque is called an agglutinative language, meaning it likes to use suffixes, prefixes and infixes, so new words are frequently formed by adding a common tag onto the end or the beginning or in the middle of a simpler word. Basque is synthetic, rather than analytic. In other words, Basque uses case endings to denote relationships between words. Basque doesn't just change the end of the verb, it changes the beginning too. In addition to the Indo-European languages moods, Basque also has a few more moods (ex. the potential) and, finally, Basque has a complex system of denoting subject, direct object and indirect object - all of which are crammed into the verb itself.

9) Polish: This language has seven cases and Polish grammar has more exception than rules. German for example has four cases all of which are logical. Polish cases however seem to need more time and effort to learn the logical pattern (if any) or rules; you might have to learn the entire language. Polish has seven cases and Polish grammar has more exception than rules. German for example has four cases all which are logical, Polish cases seem to have no pattern or rules; you have to learn the entire language. Furthermore Polish people rarely hear foreigners speak their language, so with no accent or regional variation, pronunciation must be exact or they will have no idea what you are talking about.

10) Icelandic is a very hard language to learn because of its archaic vocabulary and complex grammar. Icelandic kept all the old noun declension and verb conjugations. Many Icelandic phonemes don't have exact English equivalents. The only way you can learn them is by listening to recordings or to native speakers.
 

Godless-Kafir

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I posted plenty of pics, they got deleted for being OT so I stopped bothering. The economic data collected on REAL inflation are valuable indicators of what is really going on, more valuable than a picture of people frying rats. No one sitting on his toilette is going to know those numbers unless they get out to the markets and take price quotes. You won't learn that from PBOC or MOFCOM.



Yeah, and Arabic has little use outside of Arab countries. French is far more wide spread. When Arabs reach peak oil production, how important is it going to be while developing West Africa comes into its own?



The nationalists would disagree with you.
Ok, then start a thread to post all your Chinese adventures and expose them to the world.

East Africa is just a excuse, forget about it.

However the basic 1,2,3-10 is from India, Math is the one true universal language, O-1 combination is used in every thing now.
If England gave english the Hindu-Arab numeral is far more widely used. Everyone has to know how to count in this world be it japanese or Greek.
 
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Armand2REP

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I have to agree with you - French is definitely much more widespread than Hindi, and is present in more diversity than Mandarin (whichi is only really widespread by sheer virtue of emigration).

Ultimately however, it pales in comparison to English
I never said it didn't. The fact I am speaking English is a testament to that.

It is not surprising that French is so widespread, as after all, the role that France played in Europe (and the world!) in the last couple of centuries is akin to that of the Ancient Greeks of old - functioning as the cultural hub of Europe.
France was a leading imperial power and it still retains the largest overseas collectives of any nation on earth so you can still find French in most regions of the world. The dominate role American globalisation has played with the introduction of their English has diminished its importance somewhat, but France still is a cultural Mecca that high society Americans wish to emulate.

India has always had an issue with exclusitivity of languages, the teaching of Sanskrit, even in the relatively recent days of Ambedkar, was tightly controlled - when there is such restrictions in place within a nation, how can it spread?

The way the ideas and teachings delivered through Sanskrit had stormed into consciousness of not only Indians, but numerous other asian nations (and beyond!) millenia ago would perhaps suggest a more widespread dispora speaking Indian languages, however, this is not the case; and I think the exclusitivity of Sanskrit had a major role to play in this.
When you have 20+ official languages in one country, it is kind of hard to get it to be popular abroad when you can't even form one national language. The French language is a cultural sense of pride an unites Francophones across the globe. Even though Quebec has been separate for a long time, they almost vote to separate from English just to keep French distinctiveness.

If India wants Hindi to be a major player in global languages, they need to adopt it as the dominant language first.
 

roma

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If India wants Hindi to be a major player in global languages, they need to adopt it as the dominant language first.[/QUOTE]

as in another of my posts i reckon it might not be such a good idea for india to want hindi to be a " major player" as you call it , in global languages . India would be better off IMHO to continue to policy of english for the world and hindi for communication at home .
 

roma

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Most Difficult Language To Learn

1) Chinese: Many factors make Chinese very difficult to learn. For example the characters (Hanzi) used in the writing system seem to be archaic and obscure. Every word is a different symbol and it's not phonetic so it gives you no clues as to how it is pronounced. The tone system also is a pain because Mandarin has four tones. One other reason is, Mandarin has a large number of homophones. For example, the pronunciation "shì" is associated with over thirty distinct morphemes. Some people try to learn this language for that specific reason, being difficult and different.

.
nice post - interesting - thanks
btw would you be kind enough to let us know the source url so i can follow-up with further enquiries directly to them ? ( i did some google search but didnt come up with anyting official - just a lot of personal opinions )
 

niceguy2011

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Chinese – the language the whole world wants to learn - Life & Style - The Independent

Chinese – the language the whole world wants to learn

There's been some noise this week in the southern Pakistani province of Sindh following the announcement that from 2013, learning standard Chinese will become compulsory for all students from sixth grade onwards.

There are those who say the move will erode Pakistani culture and those who say it simply makes sense as the world's most populous nation sits right on Sindh's doorstep.

But what the issue does to the rest of the world is - once again - highlight just how wide the use of the Chinese language is fast becoming.

With more than 1, 372 billion Chinese (or Mandarin) speakers in the world, it is the planet's most-used language, in front of English (1,302 billion). More and more, it is also becoming the language of the internet.

According to the Internet World Stats, there were by the end of 2010, an estimated 444.9 million people using Chinese on the internet, second only to English and its web community of 536.6 million.

And those two languages are a long way ahead of the rest of the top five internet languages on the planet - Spanish (153.3 million), Japanese (99.1 million) and Portuguese (82.5 million).

The total number of Chinese-speaking internet users has surged an incredible 1,478.7 percent over the past 11 years, according to IWS, which charts "internet usage, population statistics, travel statistics and internet market research data for over 233 individual countries and world regions."

The main reason the world is turning en masse to the Chinese language comes from pure economics. In January this year China took over from Japan as the world's second largest economy - and estimations are that it will topple the United States from its lofty perch as the biggest economy in the world by 2020.

So the people in Sindh can take some heart from the fact that they are not alone - not by a long shot.

The Swedish education minister in July announced that all primary schools in the country would offer Chinese within a decade, while in America the number of public and private schools offering the language to its students has risen to 1,600 from 300 in a decade, according to government estimations.

MS
 

Armand2REP

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Chinese the language of the internet? Only in Greater China. If you want to get to most of the web, you have to do it in English.
 

Singh

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I bet over half of Sindhi children do not know how to read or write or even do simple mathematical calculations.
 

Oracle

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Chinese in Sindh schools

STILL mired in its indecisiveness about an effective language in education policy and its implementation, the Sindh government has decided to move a step further into the realm of mass confusion on the education front.

It has now announced that children in the province will have to learn the Chinese language (does it mean Mandarin?) as a compulsory subject from Class 6 onwards. This policy is to take effect from 2013.

Why the government is so overly keen about this policy, described by critics as 'stupid', is not known. As an incentive, it has even promised to offer foreign scholarships to students studying Chinese. As is our wont, a handful of unqualified policymakers have taken the hasty decision with no planning having gone into it. We have been assured that the issue will be taken up on a priority basis. In effect it means that the curriculum will have to be drawn up, textbooks printed and teachers trained in the next 18 months.

The motive? Ostensibly to win the goodwill of an "all-weather friend and neighbour with whom trade relations are growing with every passing day". But few are convinced of the need to thrust another foreign language on children.

Expectedly, the decision has caused quite a ruckus. But unfortunately, the online chatter, bordering on hysteria, has not taken this as an occasion to demand that the government revisit its language in education policy that can be described as equally 'crazy' as making Mandarin compulsory. Our present language policy poses as many challenges as the teaching of Mandarin would.

This is a pity because we have already made quite a mess of education in the country. Sindh has been the worst off and a recent report on the knowledge of rural schoolchildren tested nationally in 2008 places Sindh at the bottom of the heap.

Without going into all the causes of this failure, one can confidently identify the key ones — the poor quality of teachers who are selected on grounds of political loyalty and not academic merit. The teachers lack proficiency in the mother tongue of the child. There is the misplaced overemphasis on teaching English as the panacea of all ills. Wouldn't it make sense if efforts are first directed towards revamping the school system, focusing on the home language of the child as the medium of instruction, improving textbooks and using the modern methodology of language teaching?

If we have to follow the Chinese example, we would gain by studying China's education system instead, which is rated quite high internationally. A big poster that greets incoming passengers at Pearson International Airport (Toronto) announces: "The number of Chinese currently learning English is five times the population of the United Kingdom."

Teachers who have lived and taught in China confirm that learning English is a high priority area in many schools in that country. But before our champions of English jump to the conclusion that I am advocating a switchover to English in our schools, some more information about the Chinese education system would be helpful.

True, English teaching is highly coveted in China, but all schools up to grade 10 are required to teach in their own language.
Sarah Siddiqi who taught science in Souzhou for a year found the level of knowledge of the schoolchildren in the basic sciences equivalent to world standards. International assessment tests confirm this.

In its eagerness to compete with the industrialised world, China has introduced a parallel three-year international curriculum taught at the high school level in English. But the condition is that the child must have completed high school in the Chinese system in his own language. A-level comes another two years later. .

Only a handful of schools offer these international courses, mostly, Cambridge/International Baccalaureate/American Advance Placement. Thus Souzhou, a city of six million, has only four schools offering the international exams for which they hire education agencies mainly from Britain. Since the Chinese are focused in their planning, they concentrate on subjects that do not require as much language skills as the social sciences.

Physics, chemistry, mathematics, accounting business studies are generally the subjects offered. Of course the students' proficiency in English — especially the spoken language — is not at all adequate, but they rote learn to success. But I feel what must be noted is that they have already acquired their basic knowledge in various subjects in the 10 years of schooling in Mandarin.

English has been introduced as a subject in many schools in the major cities of China from the primary level. But Siddiqi did not find the children very fluent in the language. According to her most children carry an electronic English-Chinese dictionary with them and refer to it throughout the lessons. She describes this as being "helpful and distracting" at the same time.

Foreign teachers in the universities are provided the help of interpreters in the classroom. Lack of English language skills is compensated by the amazingly large number of Chinese books translated from foreign languages that are freely available. This handicap in English notwithstanding can one say that China is not doing well on the world stage?

Have the Chinese been consulted about this brainwave of the Sindh government? Do they think it is feasible? But the Chinese are famous for maintaining a discreet silence when necessary.
 

roma

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how about for india to make vietnamese , filipino and indonesian available for study - not necesarily compulsory but just available and with government scholarships for furhter studies in these subjects ?
 

ejazr

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This must top the stupidest thing done by Zardari and Co. to please China. It is just not going to happen because they wouldn't have the resources to do so.

It is hard to say which of Hindi or Mandarin will be more dominant in business by mid century. ...... I would say Hindi would be far more dominant than Chinese as India has an open diverse economy while China is centrally planned and closed off. As for moving past English, not going to happen. Too much of modern culture revolves around it. If Bollywood can replace Hollywood... watch out!
I would say that Hindi or broadly speaking Hindu-Urdu is already gaining a much wider footprint than Mandarin in some areas already. For example in the Gulf Arab countries, most locals can converse in Hindi/Urdu and watch bollywood films. In Syria, the only posters that are allowed to be as large as the President is a bollywood film actor Amitabh Bachan. The same in Egypt. The Maulana Azad cultural centre in Egypt run by the Indian embassy there also runs free courses in Urdu and Hindi to teach it to the locals. Urdu particularly makes it easier for them to catch on because familiarity with the script.
 

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