Chinese submarine in Karachi, raises concern

[Hari Sud]

What concern?

A 2000 ton Kilo copy submarine will intimidate India when it is in Indian gun sights all the time. ..... Baloney.

I see the media is already intimidated. It is them spreading the scare tactic news.

Relax, submarines and other warships will crisis cross Indian Ocean. We cannot stop them. All we got to do is to keep them in our gun sights.

 

[Compersion]

I think they are on a training to learn about International law and customs because Karachi provides them hands on experience since that is where they can inspect where the Mumbai attackers had used the facilities and where and how KSM was arrested and also other issues. The crew must also be taking lesson on what is a non-state actor and what happens if a state has no control over non-state actors.

They can share all that with USA, Israel and other foreign countries that combine into the matrix of such events and appreciate PRC indistinctness .

Also

Did India buzz the PRC submarine on a open radio channel and say that they are entering Indian waters and move out of there.

While taking the lessons on International Law and customs in Karachi the Submarine crew can announce to the world:

"PRC supports freedom of navigation in international waters, including in the [x], and the right of passage in accordance with accepted principles of international law."

 

[Nicky G]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...e-ties-not-a-concern/articleshow/47880591.cms

 

[no smoking]

I think they are on a training to learn about International law and customs because Karachi provides them hands on experience since that is where they can inspect where the Mumbai attackers had used the facilities and where and how KSM was arrested and also other issues. The crew must also be taking lesson on what is a non-state actor and what happens if a state has no control over non-state actors.

If that is the case, the best place to learn is Mumbai not Karachi.

They can share all that with USA, Israel and other foreign countries that combine into the matrix of such events and appreciate PRC indistinctness .

Are you kidding me?
The Americans were the first trainers of most of terrorists in this world.

Did India buzz the PRC submarine on a open radio channel and say that they are entering Indian waters and move out of there.

I guess they did and Chinese navy crew laugh their ass off. And then India made an apology for the wrong message.

While taking the lessons on International Law and customs in Karachi the Submarine crew can announce to the world:

"PRC supports freedom of navigation in international waters, including in the [x], and the right of passage in accordance with accepted principles of international law."

That is what we having been claiming.

 

[prohumanity]

India need not worry ...India needs to make its military power and patriotism stronger and all wars will be postponed till eternity. No body can dare to mess with a powerful India. Do not fear . Do not listen to fear mongers.

 

[Compersion]

If that is the case, the best place to learn is Mumbai not Karachi.

Are you kidding me?
The Americans were the first trainers of most of terrorists in this world.
I guess they did and Chinese navy crew laugh their ass off. And then India made an apology for the wrong message.
That is what we having been claiming.

If you are making a joke out of what happened in Mumbai and even International law that is unfortunate. It seems you are taking it personally. Please don't.

International and customs with reference to Non-State actors is a evolution and I am sure the PRC interlocutors (the more knowledgeable ones) that deal with policy and are in tune with managing amenableness recognize its contours.

To elaborate a little when i said there are USA, Israel and other foreign countries that combine into the matrix of such events the prism is that it is not a India vs PRC only calculation. PRC is having regional and international events being quantified into Indian calculations (and we are lapping it up) and the regional and international community (do not) appreciate PRC indistinctness.

The Indian Ocean is factually in the physical backyard of India and the South China Sea supports freedom of navigation in international waters and the right of passage in accordance with accepted principles of international law. Like you said PRC has been saying something and claiming it. I am sure Indian Navy would like to have a good look at the (casino) PRC Aircraft Carrier one day (if not already).

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/w...s-nearly-collide-in-south-china-sea.html?_r=0

Does PRC want a set of rules and standards in case they come into contact with Indian armed personnel even on the Seas. Seems the radio contact was laughing matter like you said.

International and Regional paradox and not bilateral.

 

[anupamsurey]

No problems with China docking its Subs,
the biggest boost is we knew about its where about. no doubt even chinese knew that we knew.
it would have been scandalous, and sucker situation, if they had managed to sneak unnoticed by INS.
It would have been even better, if we could sink this sub when it was harbored in Pakistan, but, alas it will take few more years for such black ops.
altogether we need some posturing by INS to show chines that it is not funny.

 

[avknight1408]

No problems with China docking its Subs,
the biggest boost is we knew about its where about. no doubt even chinese knew that we knew.
it would have been scandalous, and sucker situation, if they had managed to sneak unnoticed by INS.
It would have been even better, if we could sink this sub when it was harbored in Pakistan, but, alas it will take few more years for such black ops.
altogether we need some posturing by INS to show chines that it is not funny.

No way these subs will go unnoticed by IN. The moment the chinese subs cross malacca strait our guys at A&N will definitely spot them. A&N is a gift straight from heaven.

 

[no smoking]

No way these subs will go unnoticed by IN. The moment the chinese subs cross malacca strait our guys at A&N will definitely spot them. A&N is a gift straight from heaven.

No, you don't have that scale of anti-submarine patrolling force supervising 24-7, even Americans don't have the number to do it. They rely on submarine sonar arrays which cost them billions dollars to build up, which India doesn't even start yet.

 

[amoy]

China to build four submarines in Karachi

BAQIR SAJJAD SYED — PUBLISHED OCT 07, 2015 06:41AM

ISLAMABAD: China will build in Karachi four of eight submarines that it is selling to Pakistan.

Minister for Defence Production Rana Tanveer Hussain told at the inauguration of the Defence Export Promotion Organisation (DEPO) Display Centre in the federal capital that the deal for the acquisition of submarines from China had been finalised and four of them would be built here.

He further said that construction of the submarines would simultaneously begin in Pakistan and China.

China, he said, would transfer the technology to Pakistan for submarine construction.

The implementation of the agreement would augment the existing submarine related capacity. One of the three Agosta 90-B submarines in Navy’s fleet — PNS Hamza commissioned in 2008 — was assembled at the Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works. The other two Agosta 90-B submarines — PNS Khalid and PNS Saad — were also indigenously overhauled and retrofitted with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems in 2011.

Also read: Govt endorses summary to get 8 submarines from China, defence committee told

The three Agosta 90-B submarines of French design form the core of Pakistan’s current submarine fleet that also includes two ageing Agosta-70 submarines.

Mr Hussain did not specify when the construction would begin, but said it would be happening soon. A training centre would be set up in Karachi for this purpose.

The minister did not either say which type of submarines were being purchased from China. It is, however, speculated that the deal was for Yuan-class Type-041 diesel-electric submarines equipped with AIP systems.

Navy has been pursuing different options for expanding its submarine fleet. Naval officials say that more submarines were needed to address force imbalance with India, which too is increasing and modernising its fleet of submarines.

Pakistan had earlier explored the options of buying submarines from France and Germany, but those deals did not materialise.

PRIVATE-PUBLIC PARTNERSHIP: Mr Hussain said the government would encourage private-public partnership in defence production to improve the efficiency of the sector.

“We can compete with the best in the world only through a national effort,” he said, adding that the government would extend all possible cooperation to private sector in this regard.

He said that this was “the beginning of a new approach”.

The minister said the country needed indigenously developed hardware, which was also technologically innovative.

NEW NAVAL SHIPYARD: The minister expected progress on the proposal for a new deep-sea shipyard planned in Gawadar.

“The summary for the new shipyard is with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and his approval is expected,” he said.

The shipyard is planned to be constructed by foreign investors on build-operate-transfer basis.

“We have already earmarked land for this purpose,” the minister said.

Mr Hussain hoped that the new shipyard would be able to get substantial maritime related business from Gulf and Arab countries.

Published in Dawn, October 7th, 2015
http://www.dawn.com/news/1211363/china-to-build-four-submarines-in-karachi


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[amoy]

China and Pakistan Join Forces Under the Sea

Indeed, recent PN procurement decisions mostly favored Beijing as a reflection of balancing operational needs and budgetary constraints. For instance, PN plans to procure modified Jiangkai frigates, continues to build the Azmat class missile fast attack craft using Chinese technologies, and in October 2015 inking a deal to build four S-20 (Type-039A Yuan class export variant, without AIP) in China and the other four in Pakistan. Even before negotiations began in earnest from 2011, Islamabad has cultivated the “Sino card”, for example incorporating submarine technology transfer into an agreement signed with Beijing in April 2007.

Therefore, in the foreseeable future, one may observe the gradual “Sinicization” of PN’s undersea strategy. This includes the procurement of more and more Chinese hardware that will soon supplant the existing Western makes, including submarines. But that is not all; PN appears also keen to adapt the PLA Navy’s undersea operational concepts. The latest Sino-Pakistani naval exercise exemplifies this evolving, holistic PN strategy towards addressing the undersea challenge. This inaugural joint ASW training component should be expected to continue in subsequent exercises. In fact, PLA Navy’s regular stopovers in Karachi and most recently in Gwadar have included submarines in the recent years. These boats were not just intended as technological showpieces to Islamabad but more practically, to hone interoperability with PN in the undersea arena, getting acquainted with the local operating environment, and most likely tracking and conducting mock attack runs on Indian naval targets, especially submarines. In times of war, this will pay off as the two navies jointly prosecute such missions against conceivably Indian submarines, leveraging on the growing bilateral interoperability and technological commonalities.

It is clear that Pakistan looks forward to a multifaceted format of naval cooperation with China, which will thereby institutionalize the process of building interoperability and technical commonalities. During an interview with Beijing Review in March 2013, Rear Admiral Khan Hasham Bin Saddique, Commander Pakistan Fleet called for a bilateral memorandum covering not just naval exchanges but also training and exercises, as well as shipbuilding, which includes submarine technical cooperation. With the latest joint ASW training, Beijing has answered part of this call. It will become a matter of time that the Sino-Pakistani naval nexus gains greater traction in the undersea arena.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-pakistan-join-forces-under-the-sea-14829?page=2



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