Chinese Ships Ram Vietnamese Vessels

DBF1954

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Vietnam has to find a way to protest while not escalating the conflict into a war. I think the way it's done is fine considering the situation. China doesn't like nations in SE Asia to take a stand against them but the geography will not change and we will have to live with an occasional protest from Beijing :)

Historical claims are someting for scholars. What counts on the ground is what number of troops, ships or airplanes you can deploy. Look on a map and see that Vietnam will always be faster in action than anyone else. The Chinese and others know very well that Vietnamese can fight. Therefore I see no big changes coming as reality on the ground is as it is.
 

nimo_cn

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Xisha, unlike other parts of south china sea, is not disputed. After China recovered it from South Vietnam, it has been quiet for quite a long time.

The contention over scs between China and Vietnam focuses on what chinese call Nansha. for the last 30 years, China doesnt have the ability to protect it, giving Vietnamese a chance to snatch islands from China.

Now China is marching deep into SCS, what Vietnam steals from China in Nansha is gonna be lost.

Vietnamese are smart, at this point they choose to shift the contention from Nansha to Xisha, trying to escalate the situation in a place that was not disputed. By doing that, China will be put in an awkward position, and may have to negotiate with Vietnam, then Vietnam will back off from Xisha but demand China to go easy on Nansha.

Two steps forward first, then one step backward, that is the strategy they are employing.

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Ray

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I simply reply to Vietnam poster claim Vietnam has more history on parcel. As for local people there aren't civilian live in scs
Your are right.

China can claim Vietnam.as being China.

bắc thuộc, "belonging to the North"

It is only after Lê Lợi's defeated the Chinese at the Battle of Tốt Động – Chúc Động (1427), that Viets got rid of the Han and the converted Han who were termed as barbarians by the Han.

The Battle of Tốt Động – Chúc Động (1426) was the decisive battle in the 14-year Lam SÆ¡n uprising which established Vietnam's independence from Ming China in 1428. The battle took place over three days from 5–7 November 1426 in the Red River Valley between Tốt Động and Chúc Động, two villages of ChÆ°Æ¡ng Mỹ District, near Hanoi. Lê Lợi's forces routed the Ming army forcing them to sue for peace and recognise Vietnam as a tribute bearing but independent state.

Now, take out an ancient tattered map from China and declare that Vietnam is a part of China!
 

Ray

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Get hold of maps of Ching Shih, or Cheng I Sao, who was a prominent pirate in middle Qing China, and who terrorized the China Sea in the early 19th century. She commanded over 300 junks manned by 20,000 to 40,000 pirates while another estimate has Cheng's fleet at 1800 and crew at about 80,000.

Her maps would be a 'historic' document to lay claim to everything China claims as her own.

China should lay claim to Sri Lanka too. because of the Ming–Kotte War which was a military conflict between the expeditionary forces of the Chinese Ming empire with the Sinhalese Kotte kingdom, located in the southern territories of present-day Sri Lanka.

Admiral Zheng He and his troops invaded Kotte, conquering its capital.[2] They took captive Alakeshvara, his family, and principal officials.The Sinhalese army hastily returned and surrounded the capital, but they were repeatedly defeated in battle against the invading Chinese troop.

This would come handy

Straight-away, their dens and hideouts we ravaged,
And made captive that entire country,
Bringing back to our august capital,
Their women, children, families and retainers, leaving not one,
Cleaning out in a single sweep those noxious pests, as if winnowing chaff from grain...
These insignificant worms, deserving to die ten thousand times over, trembling in fear...
Did not even merit the punishment of Heaven.
Thus the august emperor spared their lives,
And they humbly kowtowed, making crude sounds
Praising the sage-like virtue of the imperial Ming ruler.
""
Yang Rong (1515) about the confrontation in Ceylon
The Islamic countries will be delighted and support China because Zheng He or Ma he was a Muslim.

See how much the Muslims have done for China and you chaps are butchering the poor Uighurs for wanting to be Muslims!
 
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amoy

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Vietnam has to find a way to protest while not escalating the conflict into a war. I think the way it's done is fine considering the situation. China doesn't like nations in SE Asia to take a stand against them but the geography will not change and we will have to live with an occasional protest from Beijing :)

Historical claims are someting for scholars.
I think Vietnam is quite successful in voicing their protest worldwide. Even they staged a scene in Taipei - I guess many Vietnamese probably have no idea abt the connection btwn 9-dash and ROC (Taiwan) and Taiwan's stance over SCS :lol:

Thousands of Vietnamese protested in front of Taipei Station



Vietnamese has evoked bitter memories of the war against Vietnam. Chinese veterans observed the 30th anniversary of recapturing border mountains - quite unusual!


I 've been VN - perhaps mutual resentment resurfaces.
 
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Compersion

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Worried over Chinese assertiveness, Vietnam wants India to 'rise quickly | The Indian Express

Mattoo said China was losing the trust of its neighbours and losing all friends. "Outside North Korea and Pakistan, there is not even one state that is not concerned by Chinese foreign policy behaviour," he added.
its a pity because chinese people probably like and prefer other countries and are good people overall.

(non)peaceful rise is having a pertinent impression onto the chinese people - is it disjointed from PRC policy.
 

WeNeedTheTruth

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Pretty sure china has historical doc on parcel since Ming dynasty. Also Vietnam ram a chinese ship in 2011 so now you complain
Yeah, some chinese fishermen from Ming dynasty came there and nothing else. You have to do something that related to claiming sovereignty.
We did. China didn't.
I copy my #66 below, in case you haven't read:

We, Vietnamese, were owning and administrating Paracel Islands from 18th Century, we pitched the flag in 1816, we have a lot of documents about setting our sovereignty and administrating those islands, a lot of documents from the Westerners that recognize and affirm our right. What do you have? Some chinese fishermen visited it? You named it? Well, nothing you have done is relating to claiming sovereignty. The chinese never cared about Paracels until the 20th Century when it finally had a little power, and in 1974 you bring your navy there to invade our sovereign islands.
I can provide proofs and evidences here if you need to know.

By the way, since you are not a real American with that English (I know I'm not very good at English too, but I know who write good English and who doesn't), so please replace your flag. Thank you.

-----

Chinese attacked our ships many times before 2011. They harassed our ships inside our EEZ. Our action was just for self-defense purpose.
We never ram Chinese ship in china's EEZ.
This time, they deployed a giant oil rig 80 miles inside our EEZ. Why didn't they just drill whatsoever inside their EEZ? They have their legal EEZ too!
 
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Peace

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Viet Nam has many historical envidence, I will post one of them, written by a Belgiumese geographer Philippe Vandermaelen (1795–1869) - a member of Geographical Association (Société de géographie - French). The envidence belongs to World Atlas , which was published in 1827.



Here is the link of above picture for anyone would like to zoom in: Partie, la Cochinchine. Asie 106. - David Rumsey Historical Map Collection

The envidence clearly proved that Paracel Islands belongs to An Nam Empire ( French called Viet Nam as An Nam in the past)
 
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Peace

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Mods please delete #110, just wrong click while editing grammar. Thanks in advance !
 

nimo_cn

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Vietnam's economy is walking into a big trouble, they just gave up on hosting the next Asia Games, quoting financial difficulties. I am gonna say that is rare in a communist country, unless the financial difficulties are overwhelming.

With a troubled economy, people wont be pleased. Domestic anger needs to be diverted somewhere else before it gets out of control, hence the drama. Brilliant move by Vietnam.

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Kunal Biswas

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How about this, Stop being a drama queen and start posting some good sources to back your claims ..

hence the drama. Brilliant move by Vietnam.

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abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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Vietnam's economy is walking into a big trouble, they just gave up on hosting the next Asia Games, quoting financial difficulties. I am gonna say that is rare in a communist country, unless the financial difficulties are overwhelming.

With a troubled economy. Domestic anger needs to be diverted somewhere else before it gets out of control, hence the drama. Brilliant move by Vietnam.

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well what about your great(!) friend pakistan, there economy is worse than vietnam,
.
actually communist nations are not developed, but they SHOW themselves developed , for eg ussr.
.
vietnam have a good fdi by japanese companies
.
and it will come to its path very soon
.
people of brazil also protested against fifa so doesn't hosting a game doesn't means there is economic crisis
.
it is good move by vietnam to invest in social and economic sector than to host asian games where there is hardly any chance of vietnam winning a medal
 

nimo_cn

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Anti-China parade became violent, factories opened by Chinese were attacked by nationalistic Vietnamese youth.


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ThangLong

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So shame :(. I apologize to all company and people Chinese was attacked by Vietnamese. They are poor worker, uneducation :-<. I have no exculpation
 
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abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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So shame :(. I apologize to all company and people Chinese was attacked by Vietnamese. They are poor worker, uneducation :-<. I have no exculpation
it is not because they are uneducated, indians were uneducated though they achieved freedom by non-violence
.
.
its emotion , whenever the subject is national people became violent because of emotion and later the violent people feel that they did bad cause purification of emotion
 

amoy

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Many factories/shops VN rioters ransacked were actually Singaporean or Taiwanese, according to pictures.


Singaporean flag actually

No police being present on the scene, VN govmt deliberately leaves such violence unchecked.

History often repeats itself. The persecution of Chinese led to years of Sino-VN conflicts until the collapse of USSR.

The Hoa were highly represented in Vietnam's business and commerce sector before the Fall of Saigon in 1975. As of 2012, they comprise a well-established middle class ethnic group and make up a high percentage of Vietnam's educated and upper class.[3][4] Like much of Southeast Asia, the Sino-Vietnamese are dominant in Vietnamese commerce and business. They are estimated to have started 70% to 80% of pre-fall of Saigon's privately owned and operated South Vietnamese economy.[5][6] At present, Sino-Vietnamese comprise a small percentage in the modern Vietnamese economy, now mostly Vietnamese-run, as many Hoa had their businesses and property confiscated by the Communists after 1975, and many fled the country as boat people due to persecution by the new Communist government. Hoa persecution intensified in the late 1970s, which was one of the reasons for the Sino-Vietnamese War.[7]
Hoa people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Possibly Vietnamese will rush to vandalize ancient temples with Chinese inscriptions too, everywhere in Hanoi :tsk:

 

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