Chinese Develop Special "Kill Weapon" to Destroy U.S. Aircraft Carriers Advanced mis

Discussion in 'China' started by LETHALFORCE, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Now, I don't understand what the hype about this is all about....

    AFAIK, the tracking of a missile on land by the radar is obstructed due to things like buildings and other interference due to the topography which is uneven... That is why low flying missiles like cruise missiles cannot be picked up properly and efficiently with high probability of tracking...

    But, on the sea, apart from the waves, it is pretty simple "terrain" (if i may use the term)... No obstructions or anything... I don't see a reason why a ship borne radar would not be able to pick up a medium to low flying missile and possibly deploy Baraks to shoot them down....

    They claim to employ "stealth", but I beg the question, how stealthy can such a huge missile be ??? Slight tweaks of the radar and we ought to be able to track it properly...

    Please correct me if I'm wrong...

    IMHO if the above is true, I think we're unnecessarily panicking for a useless weapon...
     
  2. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    the difference also is Monk the BM is flying at Mach 10 you have a very small window to be precise the carrier's survival will come down to milliseconds, and all your eggs in one basket on the carrier is also a flaw this missile reveals.
     
  3. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Then, I guess we'll have to use more powerful radars to track from longer distances and faster interceptors to shoot it down....
     
  4. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    AEGIS has X-band radar that is best right now and it still would not be able to take on a supersonic cruise missile flying MACH 3 so against a MACH 10 Ballistic misisle I don't think it has a chance.
     
  5. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Ok... thanks for the technicalities...
     
  6. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    also firing more than one would also be a challenge, along with dummy missiles.
     
  7. Payeng

    Payeng Daku Mongol Singh

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    Why can't you target the guiding satellite instead supposing you know that the missile is approaching?
     
  8. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    you would have to know exactly when missile will be fired, and which satellite is guiding it.
     
  9. Payeng

    Payeng Daku Mongol Singh

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    IIRC chinese would have 5 geostationary system in thier compassystem, they fire a missile and destroy one within the range. what say?
     
  10. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    I disagree. A one off incident during peacetime is hardly any proof. The satellite they shot down was LEO (All US military and comm sats are HEO) and it was maneouvered into the missile's path for a successful intercept. In the conventional sense, they cant match the USA. They can't even reach USA, without using ICBMs.

    Maybe true in 9 cases out of 10, but never underestimate the enemy.

    China is the only country in the world with a cyber arm in the military. Maybe, they can bring down US sats using soft-kill? Also regarding the CEP, I dont think the warhead would be a conventional BM warhead, but a maneuverable warhead.

    ABL is still not tested mate. The only thing they have right now is the THEL, and that too a land based version. It can shoot down rockets/missiles, but a warhead is designed to be heated during atmospheric re-entry, and the laser will not cause much difference. (As a reference of how the laser operates, check this link http://www.missilethreat.com/missiledefensesystems/id.63/system_detail.asp
    AEGIS was designed to counter AShMs, and had to be modified to intercept BMs with fixed trajectory.

    Youre right, CIWS has no chance.

    Air-Borne Laser

    We cannot tell at this stage how effective this will be, but one thing is for sure, the USN is taking this very seriously.
     
  11. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    US is the country that developed Windows, Linux and infact u can say COMPUTERS. By saying China is the only country in the world with a cyber arm in the military u are under estamating US. Hacking civilian network is easy than military network. What China is doing during peace time will not be easy during a war. US states attack on its satellite by any foreign country using any means US will retialate with nuclear strike. This is the place where US has a advantage over china.
    I just wanted to say that without real time guidence it would be difficult for BM to hit a AC.

    Every re-entry vehicle can be heated only till a particular point. While entring in atmosphere the re-entry vehicle is most vernerable to laser based defence as it would alread be heated.
    One more thing technology always move forward.
     
  12. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    BMD Watch: China targets U.S. carriers

    http://www.spacewar.com/reports/BMD_Watch_China_targets_US_carriers_999.html

    [​IMG]


    BMD Watch: China targets U.S. carriers

    The Dong Feng 21 missile.
    by Martin Sieff
    Washington, April 1, 2009
    China is developing a new, nasty surprise for the U.S Navy's aircraft carrier battle groups -- a super-long-range anti-ship ballistic missile with a range of 1,200 miles.

    The U.S. Naval Institute reported on its Web site Tuesday that the new weapon has already been under secret development for years. It is a modified version of the Dong Feng 21 missile that, in addition to its range, can carry a warhead capable of doing serious, and possibly lethal, damage to an 80,000-ton nuclear-powered U.S. supercarrier.

    The Naval Institute report said details of the new anti-ship ballistic missile were first revealed on a Chinese blog that U.S. military analysts regard as a credible source for information about the People's Liberation Army and Navy. The report was translated into English and can be viewed at the naval affairs blog Information Dissemination: informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2009/03/plan-asbm-development.html.

    "The range of the modified Dong Feng 21 missile is significant in that it covers the areas that are likely hot zones for future confrontations between U.S. and Chinese surface forces," the Naval Institute noted.

    The report also describes the new missile as being difficult to locate and track on radar because of its combination of "a complex guidance system, low radar signature and a maneuverability that makes its flight path unpredictable."

    The report said the new missile can fly at speeds of up to Mach 10 -- 10 times the speed of sound. That is about 7,500 miles per hour at sea level. It can fly more than 1,200 miles in less than 12 minutes.

    The weapon was not developed in isolation. The Naval Institute report said it can be guided on to its giant aircraft carrier targets by a combination of low-Earth-orbit satellites, radar and unmanned aerial vehicles.

    U.S. naval analysts believe that the Chinese allowed details of the new ASBM to be published unofficially because the weapon is already operational, the report said. "The Chinese rarely mention weapons projects unless they are well beyond the test stages," it said.

    The new Chinese weapon, if it is operational or likely to be so soon, marks a huge advance in naval warfare and heralds a shift in the balance of power at sea that could prove strategic in its scale. It would be, as the Naval Institute report pointed out, "the first time a ballistic missile has been successfully developed to attack vessels at sea. Ships currently have no defense against a ballistic missile attack."

    China has slowly but relentlessly and steadily built up already an overwhelming concentration of short-range anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles to dominate the Taiwan Strait. Already, they have made the strait a death trap for U.S. carrier battle groups in any time of war. However, the U.S. carrier force has retained its great capability to project power hundreds of miles against land-based targets while remaining out of range of land-based and light warship-based ASBMs.

    The new anti-ship Chinese ballistic missile, however, if it proves successful and reliable, could have the capability to threaten U.S. warships operating more than a thousand miles away from Chinese land bases, effectively driving U.S. naval power in the event of any conflict with China back into the Central Pacific. It will also spur urgent U.S. efforts to adapt and advance existing ballistic missile defense technology to provide defenses against the new threat.

    Along with the Chinese naval buildup, U.S. Navy officials appear to view the development of the anti-ship ballistic missile as a tangible threat.

    Respected analyst Raymond Pritchett writes on the U.S. Naval Institute blog at blog.usni.org/?p=1964 that senior U.S. Navy officers appear to be taking the new threat very seriously indeed.

    "The Navy's reaction is telling because it essentially equals a radical change in direction based on information that has created a panic inside the bubble," he wrote. "For a major military service to panic due to a new weapon system, clearly a mission kill weapon system, either suggests the threat is legitimate or the leadership of the Navy is legitimately unqualified. There really aren't many gray spaces in evaluating the reaction by the Navy ... the data tends to support the legitimacy of the threat."

    China's naval commanders are certainly riding high and feeling confident these days. On March 8 they harassed a U.S. survey ship, the USNS Impeccable, which appears to have been on an intelligence-gathering voyage in international waters near the major Chinese strategic submarine and bomber bases on the island of Hainan.

    The new weapon also confirms reports from United Press International's Andrei Chang that the Chinese navy is no longer satisfied with simply being able to prevent the U.S. Navy and its carrier battle groups from operating in China's home waters. Beijing appears determined to create the weapons systems that will allow it to assert command of the seas at least 1,000 miles out into the ocean beyond its shores.
     
  13. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    New Concerns Over Chinese 'Carrier-Killer'

    http://www.military.com/news/article/April-2009/new-concerns-over-chinese-carrier-killer.html

    New Concerns Over Chinese 'Carrier-Killer'
    April 01, 2009
    U.S. Naval Institute

    With tensions already rising due to the Chinese navy becoming more aggressive in asserting its territorial claims in the South China Sea, the U.S. Navy seems to have yet another reason to be deeply concerned.

    After years of conjecture, details have begun to emerge of a "kill weapon" developed by the Chinese to target and destroy U.S. aircraft carriers.

    First posted on a Chinese blog viewed as credible by military analysts and then translated by the naval affairs blog Information Dissemination, a recent report provides a description of an anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) that can strike carriers and other U.S. vessels at a range of 2000km.

    The range of the modified Dong Feng 21 missile is significant in that it covers the areas that are likely hot zones for future confrontations between U.S. and Chinese surface forces.

    The size of the missile enables it to carry a warhead big enough to inflict significant damage on a large vessel, providing the Chinese the capability of destroying a U.S. supercarrier in one strike.

    Because the missile employs a complex guidance system, low radar signature and a maneuverability that makes its flight path unpredictable, the odds that it can evade tracking systems to reach its target are increased. It is estimated that the missile can travel at mach 10 and reach its maximum range of 2000km in less than 12 minutes.

    Supporting the missile is a network of satellites, radar and unmanned aerial vehicles that can locate U.S. ships and then guide the weapon, enabling it to hit moving targets.

    While the ASBM has been a topic of discussion within national defense circles for quite some time, the fact that information is now coming from Chinese sources indicates that the weapon system is operational. The Chinese rarely mention weapons projects unless they are well beyond the test stages.

    If operational as is believed, the system marks the first time a ballistic missile has been successfully developed to attack vessels at sea. Ships currently have no defense against a ballistic missile attack.

    Along with the Chinese naval build-up, U.S. Navy officials appear to view the development of the anti-ship ballistic missile as a tangible threat.

    After spending the last decade placing an emphasis on building a fleet that could operate in shallow waters near coastlines, the U.S. Navy seems to have quickly changed its strategy over the past several months to focus on improving the capabilities of its deep sea fleet and developing anti-ballistic defenses.

    As analyst Raymond Pritchett notes in a post on the U.S. Naval Institute blog:

    "The Navy's reaction is telling, because it essentially equals a radical change in direction based on information that has created a panic inside the bubble. For a major military service to panic due to a new weapon system, clearly a mission kill weapon system, either suggests the threat is legitimate or the leadership of the Navy is legitimately unqualified. There really aren't many gray spaces in evaluating the reaction by the Navy…the data tends to support the legitimacy of the threat."

    In recent years, China has been expanding its navy to presumably better exert itself in disputed maritime regions. A recent show of strength in early March led to a confrontation with an unarmed U.S. ship in international waters.
    © Copyright 2009 U.S. Naval Institute. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
     
  14. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    The Aircraft Carrier Killer Satellite

    old article

    http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htspace/articles/20070313.aspx?comments=Y

    The Aircraft Carrier Killer Satellite
    March 13, 2007: While China has backed off, in the face of widespread international criticism, from blowing up any more space satellites with its new anti-satellite satellite, they have found a new use for it. The chief designer of Chinese satellites and spacecraft, Qi Faren, announced that their anti-satellite system can be modified to attack aircraft carriers. American aircraft carriers, one presumes, because China does not expect to have any carriers for another three or four years.



    There's currently no treaty in force banning weapons in space. But the nations capable of putting weapons in space, have refrained from doing so for several decades. This is an informal agreement, and the United States has made it clear that is under no legal obligation to keep weapons out of space. If there were an arms race in space between China and the U.S., China would most likely lose.



    The Chinese anti-satellite system was not actually a space satellite, but rather an ICBM warhead modified to stay in orbit for a while, and home in on a satellite passing in the vicinity. A similar "fractional orbit" type weapon could be used to hit ships at sea, if you had other satellite (especially radar satellites) nearby to keep track of the moving carrier. China would also need a well designed and robust guidance system for the warhead. Since China has demonstrated its ability to reliably launch satellites, and solid fuel ICBMs, as well as an anti-satellite system, an anti-ship ICBM is not beyond their capabilities.
     
  15. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    Obviously this is an fascinating idea to have a flying object orbiting around the earth , and to use it like killer drone, but could be very tough for any country, you can modify a ballistic missile to a rocket a launcher or either way you can change a ballistic missile for other defencive use, but converting a warhead into a killer satellite is a very difficult or may I say a awesome thing. First you have to have structural change in it, you need an effective Guidance system, moreover you should have a protection for incoming interceptor missile, another point is that the reports say that similar fractional orbiter can be used to destroy a carrier, can n't there be the possibility of the orbiter burned up due to hit when it reenters into the earth atmosphere. There may be a anti-hit shield.
     
  16. futuresoptions

    futuresoptions New Member

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    The ultimate kill weapon is Nuclear weapon.
    Why does china waste time to create these type of silly weapons.
     
  17. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    This debate has been going for about 10 years ever since Adm (ret'd) Fallon suggested that the Chinese are using BMs as AShMs. It all stems from one poster describing how the MARV warhead should perform against a shipborne target.

    What do we know?

    We know the MARV warhead has been tested but to date, there has not been one live test against a moving target. No ship has ever been sunk by a MARV warhead.

    There is now thinking that the Chinese may have abandonned the MARV route as an anti-carrier weapon but keeping it against stationary targets. Terminal guidance for a BM should give it the accuracy of a cruise missile.

    In other words, don't always believe the hype but don't discount it either.
     

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