China's Selling the J-31, But Who's Buying?

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
There is no need for a JV for 2-3 squadrons but PAF has ditached about 40 engineers to monitor the program since 2010.
Pakistan doesn't have the required industrial infrastructure to absorb this kind of aircraft yet.
Why only 40? I thought you will stop producing JF-17 from 2022/25 onwards and concentrate on this.

And once you have collaborated on 3g/4g fighter, isn't it natural progression to go for JV for 5g too. Well if money is a problem then that can be adjusted with work share agreement.

BTW, what is your AF vision for Fighter mix for 2020, 25 and 30?
 

sayareakd

Mod
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,952
Country flag
this is the most confusing part... why buy a jet when even the country of origin is not buying it? even if money is issue..why not buy less number but still have similarity between both their AF's? kickbacks?!!
well Pakistanis will say that SU 30 MKI was not purchased by RuAF...............

Best part PAF dont have any their Staff requirement, they will take what Chinese offer then sugar coated pills.........
 

Neo

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
4,514
Likes
964
Why only 40? I thought you will stop producing JF-17 from 2022/25 onwards and concentrate on this.

And once you have collaborated on 3g/4g fighter, isn't it natural progression to go for JV for 5g too. Well if money is a problem then that can be adjusted with work share agreement.

BTW, what is your AF vision for Fighter mix for 2020, 25 and 30?
Actually the JF-17's block 3 will remain the major frontline fighter till 2030 and we intend to induct between 250-300 for PAF and another 200-250 for the export to friendly countries. This will keep the production line open beyond 2025.
Currently 10 block 2 have been produced and we are upgrading the 50 block 1 to block 2 standard.
Block 3 is expected to absorb a lot of FC-20/J-31 technology and systems and will have a slightly different airframe.

FC-31 will be inducted in smaller numbers, max upto 68 to enhance offensive capabilities but PAF will remain a defensive force.

Afaik the FC-20/J-10C is not cancelled and it will equip at least two squadrons. Delay is caused by the engine as PAF wants the AL-31F and an official request has already been made to the Russian. With Moscow opening up towards Pakistan, this may finally see someprogress when Putin visits Pakistan early.next year.

My vision for PAF 2030 is:

250-300 JF-17
36-100 FC-20
40-60 FC-31
40 F-16
 
Last edited:

Blackwater

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
21,156
Likes
12,211
Actually the JF-17's block 3 will remain the major frontline fighter till 2030 and we intend to induct between 250-300 for PAF and another 200-250 for the export to friendly countries. This will keep the production line open beyond 2025.
Currently 10 block 2 have been produced and we are upgrading the 50 block 1 to block 2 standard.
Block 3 is expected to absorb a lot of FC-20/J-31 technology and systems and will have a slightly different airframe.

FC-31 will be inducted in smaller numbers, max upto 68 to enhance offensive capabilities but PAF will remain a defensive force.

Afaik the FC-20/J-10C is not cancelled and it will equip at least two squadrons. Delay is caused by the engine as PAF wants the AL-31F and an official request has already been made to the Russian. With Moscow opening up towards Pakistan, this may finally see someprogress when Putin visits Pakistan early.next year.

My vision for PAF 2030 is:

250-300 JF-17
36-100 FC-20
40-60 FC-31
40 F-16
:pound::pound::wave::wave::toilet::toilet:
 

Srinivas_K

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
7,420
Likes
12,945
Country flag
Actually the JF-17's block 3 will remain the major frontline fighter till 2030 and we intend to induct between 250-300 for PAF and another 200-250 for the export to friendly countries. This will keep the production line open beyond 2025.
Currently 10 block 2 have been produced and we are upgrading the 50 block 1 to block 2 standard.
Block 3 is expected to absorb a lot of FC-20/J-31 technology and systems and will have a slightly different airframe.

FC-31 will be inducted in smaller numbers, max upto 68 to enhance offensive capabilities but PAF will remain a defensive force.

Afaik the FC-20/J-10C is not cancelled and it will equip at least two squadrons. Delay is caused by the engine as PAF wants the AL-31F and an official request has already been made to the Russian. With Moscow opening up towards Pakistan, this may finally see someprogress when Putin visits Pakistan early.next year.

My vision for PAF 2030 is:

250-300 JF-17
36-100 FC-20
40-60 FC-31
40 F-16
No UAV's ??
 

Srinivas_K

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
7,420
Likes
12,945
Country flag
I thought we were discussing fighter squadrins only, not UAV, Awacs and other supporting equipment.
LASER/directed energy weapons that are under testing right now will mature. Fighter jet concept will evolve along with air doctrines.

One laser pulse is enough to down the fighter jet !!
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
Actually the JF-17's block 3 will remain the major frontline fighter till 2030 and we intend to induct between 250-300 for PAF and another 200-250 for the export to friendly countries. This will keep the production line open beyond 2025.
Currently 10 block 2 have been produced and we are upgrading the 50 block 1 to block 2 standard. Block 3 is expected to absorb a lot of FC-20/J-31 technology and systems and will have a slightly different airframe.

FC-31 will be inducted in smaller numbers, max upto 68 to enhance offensive capabilities but PAF will remain a defensive force.

Afaik the FC-20/J-10C is not cancelled and it will equip at least two squadrons. Delay is caused by the engine as PAF wants the AL-31F and an official request has already been made to the Russian. With Moscow opening up towards Pakistan, this may finally see someprogress when Putin visits Pakistan early.next year.

My vision for PAF 2030 is:

250-300 JF-17
36-100 FC-20
40-60 FC-31
40 F-16
Currently 10 block 2 have been produced and we are upgrading the 50 block 1 to block 2 standard.
When did that happen? Links please.
 

Neo

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
4,514
Likes
964
When did that happen? Links please.
We completed the serial production of 50 block 1 earlier this year. Twelve JF-17 are schedulled to be built in 2014 and we're already half way in November. This is block 2.
Soon a new article with pics is expected in AFM with details of block 2 including the dual seat trainer.
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
We completed the serial production of 50 block 1 earlier this year. Twelve JF-17 are schedulled to be built in 2014 and we're already half way in November. This is block 2.
Soon a new article with pics is expected in AFM with details of block 2 including the dual seat trainer.
You are assuming.

Not a single of block 2 have rolled off Kamra. Actually not expected before 2015.
 

sayareakd

Mod
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,952
Country flag
You are assuming.

Not a single of block 2 have rolled off Kamra. Actually not expected before 2015.
they are making less than 60 percent of it minus engine. Just non essentials are made by them. Rest are knockdown kits from China.
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
they are making less than 60 percent of it minus engine. Just non essentials are made by them. Rest are knockdown kits from China.
58% of air frame to be exact was the count. Don't know if it has improved.
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
I am sure he does. The facility has the capicity to build and upgrade 18 aircrafts per year. Older block one jets are being upgraded as we build 10-12 new ones.

Wait for the new article to appear in AFM early next year.
Yes next year is 2015, the time I originally mentioned. Well but Air-Commodore says your AF hasn't received any yet. He says Dec. but I am adding one more month to make it 2015.

I hope you don't accuse him of lying.

As you have said

Currently 10 block 2 have been produced
But none delivered ( acc. to ACdr. ), isn't it strange?
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
26,919
Likes
98,471
Country flag
China's Newest Stealth Fighter

China displayed its new Shenyang J-31 fighters at the Zhuhai air show this week, sparking a wave of interest in the stealth fighter. As Robert Farley noted for The Diplomat, China seems more interested in selling this model than in using it. "Conceivably, the J-31 could occupy a low-end stealth fighter niche that currently has no other entrants," Farley writes.

However, The National Interest takes a closer look at the J-31 as a serious indication that "China's new stealth fighters might one day be able to match their American equivalents in battle." Many American analysts believe the J-31 is based in large part of stolen U.S. technology used in the F-22 and F-35 – meaning the J-31 (once it's out of development) may be an even match for America's own fifth generation jets. U.S. defense officials are already pointing to the J-31 (and China's other stealth fighter, the J-20) as proof that the Pentagon should double down on the F-35 program.
China's Newest Stealth Fighter | The Diplomat
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
26,919
Likes
98,471
Country flag
Is the JF-17 Really a Tough Sell for China and Pakistan?
An Egyptian contract for the JF-17 may have just slipped out of reach for China and Pakistan.

The JF-17 Thunder (also known as the FC-1 Xiaolong) is a lightweight, single-engine, multi-role combat aircraft developed jointly by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and China's Chengdu Aircraft Corporation. With a relatively low unit cost of $15-25 million, price is the primary selling point for this capable and versatile jet which Flashpoints' Robert Farley has described as conceptually a "modern MiG-21." Despite the seemingly positive bang-for-buck proposition, the JF-17 has had a hard time finding committed buyers. Indeed, part of the reason that defense procurement programs the world over have shirked the jet is prestige, but additionally, the jet remains largely unproven. While a few states have expressed interest, Pakistan and China received some bad news this week with the news that Egypt — a major regional military — will likely instead go with France's Rafale and Mirage 2000-series of jets.

As reported by Defense News, Egypt will likely acquire the Mirage fighters (specifically the 2000-9s and refurbished 2000-5s) off the United Arab Emirates, and is also currently in the process of negotiating a contract for 20 Rafale fighters. Egypt has additionally shown interest in the MiG-35. All of these options carry a significantly higher per-unit cost compared to the JF-17. The Rafale starts at around $90 million per unit, a considerably larger sum than the JF-17"²s modest asking price. While these jets certainly offer advanced capabilities over the JF-17 to make up for their higher price tags (particularly in the areas of avionics and maneuverability), the JF-17 being passed over will undoubtedly frustrate both China and Pakistan.

Egypt's decision to go with the more pedigreed jet offerings will prove uneconomical. As one analyst who spoke to Defense News notes, "Considering the current Egyptian economical situation, any purchase of Rafale or Mirages would have to be bankrolled by its Arab allies [Saudi Arabia and the UAE]." While the JF-17 would have likely been an entirely adequate solution to the Egyptian Air Force's needs, the government will go with a considerably more expensive option. This doesn't bode particularly well for the fortunes of the JF-17 elsewhere.

As Rob noted in his piece back in December, part of the importance of the JF-17 for China in particular is its potential to serve as a "gateway drug" for additional Chinese fighter exports. Each state that opts for the JF-17 is likely to consider the more expensive and advanced J-31 and other offerings. If economically constrained governments like Egypt are not price sensitive enough to see the appeal in the JF-17, China and Pakistan may have a harder time than foreseen competing with Russia for fighter sales. Even though Russian jets require considerably more expensive infrastructure to maintain and have higher operating costs, states continue to be attracted to the tried-and-true formula. If the JF-17 can't compete on the basis of price, it may fail to take off entirely.


Is the JF-17 Really a Tough Sell for China and Pakistan? | The Diplomat
=========

Ofcourse...No country will sell off their security for cheaper goods.

What they dont teach you at Chinese H@rvord

Adopting the Business model of selling TV sets into selling cheap Jets will result in getting deals grounded. [ Literally]


 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top