China's first indigenous carrier CV17

J20!

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CV17 update:




CIWS installation ongoing:

Type 1130

24-cell hq10 launcher - export designation FL3000N
Blast deflectors installed and painted
Primary APARs yet to be installed. Each measuring 4.5m x 4m
Satcomms atop the surface search radar
 

shiphone

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Satcomms atop the surface search radar
382 radar--- 3D search radar
so called SATCOM is the TACAN-Tactical Air Navigation System
---------------------

some shots of the carrier during this long National Day Vacations...
source: DSWC by LongShi... I think some indian twitter might has got these retweeted days ago.

 
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J20!

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Stills from this CCTV report also featuring an address by Hu Wenming, chief of the CSIS:






Pic from inside the hanger:

 

J20!

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The Chinese Navy's second accommodation ship pennant number 89 has joined CV17(?) dockside. This means large numbers of Navy personnel are getting acquainted with her. Builders trails seem close...



Hi Res pics from Henri K dated January 9th. The APAR's have been installed now.


 

J20!

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Close-up of the accommodation ship 89:



January 11 2018 and the engines are being tested:



I reckon they'll be taking her out as soon as all that scaffolding comes off her superstructure.
 

lcafanboy

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The Chinese Navy's second accommodation ship pennant number 89 has joined CV17(?) dockside. This means large numbers of Navy personnel are getting acquainted with her. Builders trails seem close...



Hi Res pics from Henri K dated January 9th. The APAR's have been installed now.


Even though a copy of VARYAG it is rather commendable job..........

I wish we too had gone the same way and rather than buying Gorshkov, we should have gone for Varyag along with its blue prints and should have towed it to Russian dock for repairs, renovation and weapons, EW suite & Radar fitment...............

Once here a complete reverse engineering for another 2 would have Given 3 potent Air craft Carriers to Indian Navy by now enough to hold on till 2030-35 after which we could have moved to Nuclear powered Catobar Carriers..........
 

nongaddarliberal

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Even though a copy of VARYAG it is rather commendable job..........

I wish we too had gone the same way and rather than buying Gorshkov, we should have gone for Varyag along with its blue prints and should have towed it to Russian dock for repairs, renovation and weapons, EW suite & Radar fitment...............

Once here a complete reverse engineering for another 2 would have Given 3 potent Air craft Carriers to Indian Navy by now enough to hold on till 2030-35 after which we could have moved to Nuclear powered Catobar Carriers..........
How useful are aircraft carriers in conventional navy vs navy battles? From what I read, it seems aircraft carriers are mostly used for air assaults on land from sea, but seem to be very vulnerable against other modern navies. The Gotland class sub repeatedly simulated torpedo kills on the Nimitz class carrier without being detected. And if there is a large barrage of supersonic missiles flying towards a carrier, there's nothing much that can be done to stop them. If India is serious about countering PLAN, then we must build 30-40 new attack subs, with a mix of nuclear and conventional. I don't see how useful our aircraft carriers, especially the skijump ones will be.
 

J20!

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How useful are aircraft carriers in conventional navy vs navy battles? From what I read, it seems aircraft carriers are mostly used for air assaults on land from sea, but seem to be very vulnerable against other modern navies. The Gotland class sub repeatedly simulated torpedo kills on the Nimitz class carrier without being detected. And if there is a large barrage of supersonic missiles flying towards a carrier, there's nothing much that can be done to stop them. If India is serious about countering PLAN, then we must build 30-40 new attack subs, with a mix of nuclear and conventional. I don't see how useful our aircraft carriers, especially the skijump ones will be.
Subs versus Carriers is an old argument that won't be proven either way for a long time.

The US Navy has historically used its mammoth carriers to bomb targets on land since WWII, but that's not their only use. Carriers are the most effective tool for Area Air Defense and Sea Control. Functions submarines cannot do.

STOBAR or CATOBAR, carrier based aircraft can sanitize and control 500+ miles of air and sea space with ease. This provides safe space for other functions of the Navy, be it ASW or amphibious elements to function under the carriers protective bubble.

Plus, carriers operate withing a CBG, meaning Area Air Defense vessels are a present to ward off aerial raids and Anti-Ship Missiles in addition to the carriers own fighters. Whether supersonic or subsonic, an ASM is easy pickings for a supersonic fighter carrying WVR and BVR Ait-to-Air missiles.

Not to say that carriers are not vulnerable to submarines, they are. But a Gotland or any other conventional submarine would be hard-pressed to keep up with a carrier in open water. My point is Carriers + Submarines. One cannot replace one with the other.
 

Armand2REP

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Subs versus Carriers is an old argument that won't be proven either way for a long time.

The US Navy has historically used its mammoth carriers to bomb targets on land since WWII, but that's not their only use. Carriers are the most effective tool for Area Air Defense and Sea Control. Functions submarines cannot do.

STOBAR or CATOBAR, carrier based aircraft can sanitize and control 500+ miles of air and sea space with ease. This provides safe space for other functions of the Navy, be it ASW or amphibious elements to function under the carriers protective bubble.

Plus, carriers operate withing a CBG, meaning Area Air Defense vessels are a present to ward off aerial raids and Anti-Ship Missiles in addition to the carriers own fighters. Whether supersonic or subsonic, an ASM is easy pickings for a supersonic fighter carrying WVR and BVR Ait-to-Air missiles.

Not to say that carriers are not vulnerable to submarines, they are. But a Gotland or any other conventional submarine would be hard-pressed to keep up with a carrier in open water. My point is Carriers + Submarines. One cannot replace one with the other.
Simple fact is ASW is your biggest naval weakness and one modern SSK can sink your entire task force.
 

lcafanboy

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How useful are aircraft carriers in conventional navy vs navy battles? From what I read, it seems aircraft carriers are mostly used for air assaults on land from sea, but seem to be very vulnerable against other modern navies. The Gotland class sub repeatedly simulated torpedo kills on the Nimitz class carrier without being detected. And if there is a large barrage of supersonic missiles flying towards a carrier, there's nothing much that can be done to stop them. If India is serious about countering PLAN, then we must build 30-40 new attack subs, with a mix of nuclear and conventional. I don't see how useful our aircraft carriers, especially the skijump ones will be.
Just look at 1971 Indo-Pak war. A small carrier ins Vikrant wreaked Havoc on East Pakistan, bombing Cox bazar and enforcing a complete blockade leading to surrender of 93000 strong Pak army. 1991 gulf War, and Japanese raid of pearl Harbor. And you will know how effective and deadly an aircraft carrier group is in a war.

Coming to Gotland simulation of Nimitz kill. War excercise and simulation doesn't provide actual results as during excercise or simulation a lot of weapons and counter measures are not active and several secret tactics, electronic warfare systems, manouvers aren't shared with even closed allies, but during actual war all these things are active and add to it naval personnel too are more active during actual war. Also during actual war a carrier does not operate single rather it operates in a group which contains several ships and submarines sniffing around for enemy ships and submarines. Fighter planes that sanitize the whole area which could be around 500 KMS in radius.

And even if the carrier does gets hit by a small missile or torpedo it doesn't cause much harm to it until a barrage of missiles and torpedoes hit it, it's unsinkable.

So aircraft carriers are deadliest weapons during war.
 

Sancho

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How useful are aircraft carriers in conventional navy vs navy battles? From what I read, it seems aircraft carriers are mostly used for air assaults on land from sea
Carriers are needed to project power, be it against enemy shore bases or in our case to maintain sea control over a maritime region. A CBG can control a large area at sea and deny access to ports in those areas or cut off a sea lane. But they are also the first line of defence against enemy navies, be it against surface vessels, fighters or sub hunting in larger areas.

but seem to be very vulnerable against other modern navies. The Gotland class sub repeatedly simulated torpedo kills on the Nimitz class carrier without being detected.
Even Chinese SSKs reportedly surprised USN carriers during exercises, which showed how effective AIP is today to avoid detection. But that only works when the sub is already in the area, because with the low speeds DE / AIP subs have, they can't keep up with CBGs.

If India is serious about countering PLAN, then we must build 30-40 new attack subs, with a mix of nuclear and conventional.
Very true, sadly we are more facinated by USN, although we should be more line Russian navy.
 

J20!

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Illustration by South China Morning Post.
I've seen this illustration before and I think the SCMP shot themselves in the foot here.

That's a common illustration of the never-built Ulyanovsk carrier with its one of a kind CATOBAR + STOBAR setup. Someone or the SCMP themselves just relabeled everything with Chinese systems like the HQ-10 on the Liaoning.

The Type 001A has no catapults as per that illustrated, nor does it have the 12 VLS cells for ASM like te Kuznetsov does. They were removed and sealed on the Liaoning and are not present at all on the Type 001A.
 

J20!

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Simple fact is ASW is your biggest naval weakness and one modern SSK can sink your entire task force.
Is it? Care to elaborate on that more... Assertive one-liners don't really prove much of a point mate.
 

Armand2REP

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Is it? Care to elaborate on that more... Assertive one-liners don't really prove much of a point mate.
Every annual China Report to the US Congress says the same thing as the last...

"The PLAN continues to lack a robust deep-water ASW capability"

The fact your clone of the pre-1989 Thomson CSF sonars are the mainstay of your ASW capability says it all.
 

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