China's Deceptively Weak (and Dangerous) Military

[Ray]

@hbogyt

Surely, you are not an Aborigine, or are you?

The Chinese government does not recognise dual nationality.

The Chinese government does not recognise dual nationality. If you are an Australian/Chinese dual national, you should travel on your Australian passport, obtain a visa for China and present yourself as Australian at all times. See Information for dual nationals for more information.
China | Travel advice | Smartraveller: The Australian Government's travel advisory and consular assistance service

So, flying the Chinese flag is futile and false.

In fact, it shows that you wish to enjoy the benefits of Australia, while having your loyalties to China!

 

[hbogyt]

@hbogyt

Surely, you are not an Aborigine, or are you?

The Chinese government does not recognise dual nationality.



So, flying the Chinese flag is futile and false.

In fact, it shows that you wish to enjoy the benefits of Australia, while having your loyalties to China!

You missed the point completely. I used Aborigines as a counter-example to disprove your entire theory that the flag one flies on a single forum reveals his loyalty. One counter-example is all that's required to defeat such sweeping accusations. You're right in that China doesn't recognise dual citizenship, but Australia does. Go figure.

It shows nothing but your rudeness. Australians are happy to display sentimental attachment to their country of origin. Others do it too. You don't even know me. It's a stretch to construe one's true heart from this act alone. I've already stated where my loyalty lies and no intention to prove anything to you. You're in denial. Pursuing this topic further only derails the thread and makes you look silly.

Don't think that I have no recollection of you guys said to OOE. Someone questioned his loyalty despite flying a Canadian flag. So, it would seem that certain minorities are stuck in a catch-22.

Edit: FYI I fly the Australian flag on some other forums. What does that show? Try again with your crystal ball please.

 

[nimo_cn]

Ray is paranoid, he believes that anyone who ever speaks for China has a hidden intention.

To original Chinese like us, he always discount our credibility by comparing us to 50 cents.

To immigrant Chinese like you, questioning where your loyalty lies is a common tactics.

He cant accept the fact that China is already being accepted by many.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ray]

You missed the point completely. I used Aborigines as a counter-example to disprove your entire theory that the flag one flies on a single forum reveals his loyalty. One counter-example is all that's required to defeat such sweeping accusations. You're right in that China doesn't recognise dual citizenship, but Australia does. Go figure.

Your example of Australian Aborigines is ersatz and wholly synthetic, apart from being bogus.

The native people of Australia are Aborigines. Their land was taken away by the settlers from UK. They have good reasons for grouse. Quite similar to the feelings of the people of Tibet and Xinjiang (there was a serious terrorist attack yesterday).

Substituting to compare your feelings towards Australia with that of the Aborigines, when you are but only another type of settler is patently spurious and devilishly deceptive.

If Australians are racists and you cannot handle that, you can always quit their shores, or if you do not want to do so, fight for your rights as an Australian within their shores and with their laws!

Australia recognises dual citizenship and I am aware of that. China does not. Therefore, when you claim to be an Australian citizen, it is most amusing to find you flying the Chinese flag, when China out-rightly rejects and does not recognise this duplicity of loyalty. If you are a non citizen to China, then flying the Chinese flag is indicative of gross perfidiousness.

Maybe you should go figure instead.

It shows nothing but your rudeness. Australians are happy to display sentimental attachment to their country of origin. Others do it too. You don't even know me. It's a stretch to construe one's true heart from this act alone. I've already stated where my loyalty lies and no intention to prove anything to you. You're in denial. Pursuing this topic further only derails the thread and makes you look silly.

Being sentimental about one's origin is no crime. But if I may remind you that National flags serve not only as a means of identity but also as a symbol for a country's history and ideals. And to which all citizens are wedded. Although flags originated from a simple concept, today they represent much more than mere signage.

Therefore, one is clear who is in denial.

Don't think that I have no recollection of you guys said to OOE. Someone questioned his loyalty despite flying a Canadian flag. So, it would seem that certain minorities are stuck in a catch-22.

OOE has been a staunch Canadian and he has not indicated any false sentimentality towards Mainland China, nor flown the Flag of China. That is the difference.

Edit: FYI I fly the Australian flag on some other forums. What does that show? Try again with your crystal ball please.

If you fly the Australian Flag in other fora, one wonders why you are shy not to do the same here.

What does the flying of different flags in different fora show? Ask a chameleon.

It is said that the chameleon changes colour because of the necessity of camouflage.

Camouflage is the use of any combination of materials, coloration or illumination for concealment, either by making animals or objects hard to see (crypsis), or by disguising them as something else (mimesis).

Ray is paranoid, he believes that anyone who ever speaks for China has a hidden intention.

To original Chinese like us, he always discount our credibility by comparing us to 50 cents.

To immigrant Chinese like you, questioning where your loyalty lies is a common tactics.

He cant accept the fact that China is already being accepted by many.

Good to find the 'Leader' in action.


No, I am not paranoid.

As usual you are dabbling in erroneous deductions and indulging in being delirious.

You forget inflation. So, how can you be a 50 center? The labour has got expensive in China and they do no longer want to be shortchanged. Forgot that?

As far as Mainland Chinese are concerned, they reject anything that is not spouted by the Chinese Communist Party. Since the world is not trained to believe what the Govts state, unlike the Mainland Chinese, as the Gospel, it is but natural that the free world disbelieves Communist propaganda and false statistics or even their pious, but mealy mouthed platitudes and homilies.

As far as 'immigrant' Chinese, who actually could be second or third generation out of China and thus are more credibly classified as 'of Chinese origin', well, they should fly the flag of their Nation, and not fancifully of the desired nationality or ethnic origin. If they want to indicate location, as some do, instead of nationality, they can fly the flag of their location to indicate their current status.

 

[hbogyt]

Your example of Australian Aborigines is ersatz and wholly synthetic, apart from being bogus.

The native people of Australia are Aborigines. Their land was taken away by the settlers from UK. They have good reasons for grouse. Quite similar to the feelings of the people of Tibet and Xinjiang (there was a serious terrorist attack yesterday).

Substituting to compare your feelings towards Australia with that of the Aborigines, when you are but only another type of settler is patently spurious and devilishly deceptive.

If Australians are racists and you cannot handle that, you can always quit their shores, or if you do not want to do so, fight for your rights as an Australian within their shores and with their laws!

Australia recognises dual citizenship and I am aware of that. China does not. Therefore, when you claim to be an Australian citizen, it is most amusing to find you flying the Chinese flag, when China out-rightly rejects and does not recognise this duplicity of loyalty. If you are a non citizen to China, then flying the Chinese flag is indicative of gross perfidiousness.

Maybe you should go figure instead.




Being sentimental about one's origin is no crime. But if I may remind you that National flags serve not only as a means of identity but also as a symbol for a country's history and ideals. And to which all citizens are wedded. Although flags originated from a simple concept, today they represent much more than mere signage.

Therefore, one is clear who is in denial.



OOE has been a staunch Canadian and he has not indicated any false sentimentality towards Mainland China, nor flown the Flag of China. That is the difference.



If you fly the Australian Flag in other fora, one wonders why you are shy not to do the same here.

What does the flying of different flags in different fora show? Ask a chameleon.

It is said that the chameleon changes colour because of the necessity of camouflage.

Camouflage is the use of any combination of materials, coloration or illumination for concealment, either by making animals or objects hard to see (crypsis), or by disguising them as something else (mimesis).





Good to find the 'Leader' in action.


No, I am not paranoid.

As usual you are dabbling in erroneous deductions and indulging in being delirious.

You forget inflation. So, how can you be a 50 center? The labour has got expensive in China and they do no longer want to be shortchanged. Forgot that?

As far as Mainland Chinese are concerned, they reject anything that is not spouted by the Chinese Communist Party. Since the world is not trained to believe what the Govts state, unlike the Mainland Chinese, as the Gospel, it is but natural that the free world disbelieves Communist propaganda and false statistics or even their pious, but mealy mouthed platitudes and homilies.

As far as 'immigrant' Chinese, who actually could be second or third generation out of China and thus are more credibly classified as 'of Chinese origin', well, they should fly the flag of their Nation, and not fancifully of the desired nationality or ethnic origin. If they want to indicate location, as some do, instead of nationality, they can fly the flag of their location to indicate their current status.

Not sure if you're serious or trolling or just dyslexic.

I'm going to recap and explain what I wrote before. The minor reason for flying the Chinese flag is the ever so slight alienation by certain Australians. On certain forums, they'd sometimes deride you for flying "their" flag. I'm not desperate to fit in and suck up to them, so I just use the Chinese flag on those forums (case in point, WAFF).

The "main" reason is to make clear to Indian members why I seem to side with China. Had I flown the Australian flag. Some of you were bound to get suspicious and accuse me of a 50 cent army impersonating as an Australian. To be frank, I don't actually side with China all that much. It's mostly because of the Anti-China bias prevalent on this forum that makes an otherwise neutral, objective statement sound partial to some.

Whether my counter example is contrived or not is irrelevant. It simply shows that a flag doesn't show one's true character. Taiwanese fishermen flew or threatened to fly the Chinese flag, does it mean they were going to aid and abet the Chinese any time soon. In both cases, they're merely demonstrating discontent towards their government.

The national flag may serve those purposes wherever you decide to make your presence known, it certainly does not always have that meaning to everyone especially on internet forums. I wouldn't expect someone who didn't grow up in a multicultural society to understand. In fact, most people wouldn't care at all what happens on the internet. It's the internet for god sakes! Incidentally meanings are normative. Everyone assigns their own.

OOE's experience and my own combined shows that no matter what flag you fly, your loyalty will be questioned on this forum. Get it? Why do you always argue along a tangent?

Well if you don't know why I flag certain flags on certain forums, why not ask nicely? You ask a question that's merely rhetorical then proceed to bash me more. The same thing happened in a One Child Policy thread where you carried on impudent commentaries on the Chinese government for pages on, until I finally explain in plain enough English exactly what penalties the system dispenses on violators. At least you conceded that time. This is a step backward.

Australia recognises dual citizenship -- MY country doesn't care about my parallel allegiances so long as I don't disadvantage her, not saying that I do have parallel allegiance. Why are you so worked up? Again, not sure if serious or trolling [insert meme].


So mainland Chinese always toe the party line huh? Such a sweeping statement once again. The existence of dissidents disproves that immediately. Perhaps the problem is not that the Chinese are sheeps, but rather that you're conditioned to reject everything the Chinese government says that conflicts with your preconceptions.

 

[Ray]

Not sure if you're serious or trolling or just dyslexic.

As the Chairman must I have to troll? Would you claim that Mao Tse Dong was trolling when he said that the Chinese were frogs in the well? Think that over.

Dyslexic? It appears you are disadvantaged in the cranium region. I would hasten to add, I am not stating that there is a vacuum!

I'm going to recap and explain what I wrote before. The minor reason for flying the Chinese flag is the ever so slight alienation by certain Australians. On certain forums, they'd sometimes deride you for flying "their" flag. I'm not desperate to fit in and suck up to them, so I just use the Chinese flag on those forums (case in point, WAFF).

If I am proud to be an Indian, I could not care less if any other Indian challenged me on my citizenship. And I would shame them to retract their accusation and not change my flag. For your information, I am originally from East Bengal that became East Pakistan and then Bangladesh. Notwithstanding what other Indians may state, I would continue flying the Indian flag and not resort to ducking under the Bangladeshi flag.

Your actual loyalties, or call it sentiments or even ethnic loyalty is towards China and your voluminous 'justifications' seems to be a bit vacuous.

The "main" reason is to make clear to Indian members why I seem to side with China. Had I flown the Australian flag. Some of you were bound to get suspicious and accuse me of a 50 cent army impersonating as an Australian. To be frank, I don't actually side with China all that much. It's mostly because of the Anti-China bias prevalent on this forum that makes an otherwise neutral, objective statement sound partial to some.

Take a tip from the Chinese posters – the Mainland variety – they seem to ducks taking to water when they are called 50 centers!

No one is ANTI China. It appears so because of your strong Chinese sentiment blinds you into such an erroneous belief. There is enough posts, including mine, which lauds China for their civilization and space successes. Maybe, you are the type who looks for negativity in every post on China.

Whether my counter example is contrived or not is irrelevant. It simply shows that a flag doesn't show one's true character. Taiwanese fishermen flew or threatened to fly the Chinese flag, does it mean they were going to aid and abet the Chinese any time soon. In both cases, they're merely demonstrating discontent towards their government.

A person who has no sign of stirring patriotism seeing or holding his national flag, reminds me of the lines


BREATHES there the man with soul so dead,
Who never to himself hath said,
'This is my own, my native land!'


If the Taiwanese fisherfolks flew the Red Communist Flag, then they should have the courage to go to China if they feel that that is their Nation. Can't justify disloyalty, can we?

In India, we have a saying – you do not punch a hole in the plate on which you feed.

Maybe that would not be applied in China and the Taiwanese flying the Red China flag is acceptable, if not honourable!

The national flag may serve those purposes wherever you decide to make your presence known, it certainly does not always have that meaning to everyone especially on internet forums. I wouldn't expect someone who didn't grow up in a multicultural society to understand. In fact, most people wouldn't care at all what happens on the internet. It's the internet for god sakes! Incidentally meanings are normative. Everyone assigns their own.

Is the internet a piece of outer space?

Does Internet mean that you sell your nationality, patriotism or even being a man of honour?

India is not only multicultural, it is multiethnic, multilingual and multireligious, and multi many things and we celebrate our diversity. So, learn about India before you claim that we are not from a multicultural Nation. We are more kaleidoscopic than Australia!

OOE's experience and my own combined shows that no matter what flag you fly, your loyalty will be questioned on this forum. Get it? Why do you always argue along a tangent?

OOE was on this forum before his health problems.

He was never questioned and instead, he was treated with great respect, not for which country ih

Well if you don't know why I flag certain flags on certain forums, why not ask nicely? You ask a question that's merely rhetorical then proceed to bash me more. The same thing happened in a One Child Policy thread where you carried on impudent commentaries on the Chinese government for pages on, until I finally explain in plain enough English exactly what penalties the system dispenses on violators. At least you conceded that time. This is a step backward.

It proves that I am ready to accept logic and the complaint that I am anti Chinese is outlandish. If one just wants to ram an argument without logic and one contests that, you all get het up and you starting ascribing all sorts of negativity

Australia recognises dual citizenship -- MY country doesn't care about my parallel allegiances so long as I don't disadvantage her, not saying that I do have parallel allegiance. Why are you so worked up? Again, not sure if serious or trolling [insert meme].

China does not. So , it is an affront to the Chinese policy to fly their flag when you are not a citizen.

So mainland Chinese always toe the party line huh? Such a sweeping statement once again. The existence of dissidents disproves that immediately. Perhaps the problem is not that the Chinese are sheeps, but rather that you're conditioned to reject everything the Chinese government says that conflicts with your preconceptions.

I am speaking about those who are on this forum. Call them sheep if you must. I am not saying so.

There are protests in China and of that there is no doubt. However, it is low key since the Chinese Communists are repressive. Remember the Laogai. It is still there. They call it Detention Centres. Check the thread on the same!

 

[hbogyt]

As the Chairman must I have to troll? Would you claim that Mao Tse Dong was trolling when he said that the Chinese were frogs in the well? Think that over.

Dyslexic? It appears you are disadvantaged in the cranium region. I would hasten to add, I am not stating that there is a vacuum!




If I am proud to be an Indian, I could not care less if any other Indian challenged me on my citizenship. And I would shame them to retract their accusation and not change my flag. For your information, I am originally from East Bengal that became East Pakistan and then Bangladesh. Notwithstanding what other Indians may state, I would continue flying the Indian flag and not resort to ducking under the Bangladeshi flag.

Shaming them doesn't work when you're the minority. It's like if you're getting discriminated against, you turn around and say, "Hey I'll discriminate against you." I wonder why African Americans never figured that out. Doesn't work and out of touch with reality. What's more, it's unnecessary.

Your actual loyalties, or call it sentiments or even ethnic loyalty is towards China and your voluminous 'justifications' seems to be a bit vacuous.

There's no point in discussing this further. My countrymen don't care. Yet, you're getting all worked up. Are you trolling?

Take a tip from the Chinese posters – the Mainland variety – they seem to ducks taking to water when they are called 50 centers!

No one is ANTI China. It appears so because of your strong Chinese sentiment blinds you into such an erroneous belief. There is enough posts, including mine, which lauds China for their civilization and space successes. Maybe, you are the type who looks for negativity in every post on China.

I look for erroneous arguments. I've also corrected Chinese members' illogical arguments. See the 'like' I received from maomao.

A person who has no sign of stirring patriotism seeing or holding his national flag, reminds me of the lines

Certainly not those who wants to get rid of the union jack. It's not what you feel or claim to feel, it's what you do for your country that defines you.

If the Taiwanese fisherfolks flew the Red Communist Flag, then they should have the courage to go to China if they feel that that is their Nation. Can't justify disloyalty, can we?

They're airing discontent with the act. Having trouble reading?

Is the internet a piece of outer space?

Does Internet mean that you sell your nationality, patriotism or even being a man of honour?

I haven't sold anything.

India is not only multicultural, it is multiethnic, multilingual and multireligious, and multi many things and we celebrate our diversity. So, learn about India before you claim that we are not from a multicultural Nation. We are more kaleidoscopic than Australia!

If Indian immigration to Australia is not limited to a few sub-groups, then Australia is more diverse than India.

OOE was on this forum before his health problems.

He was never questioned and instead, he was treated with great respect, not for which country ih

Oh yeah, that's certainly not the vibe I got from his private messages. It's a FACT that some Indian member on this forum pushed him to defend his loyalty. It's also a FACT that some Indian member called him stupid for his ethnicity.

It proves that I am ready to accept logic and the complaint that I am anti Chinese is outlandish. If one just wants to ram an argument without logic and one contests that, you all get het up and you starting ascribing all sorts of negativity

Indeed, only but after pages of China bashing despite your deficit in knowledge. I say again, ask if you don't know. Or is that just the way you solicit exchange of information?

China does not. So , it is an affront to the Chinese policy to fly their flag when you are not a citizen.

Oh you can read their minds now? Good for you!!! I await the day when you become a billionaire by predicting the next Chinese stock market crash. Why don't you ask the Chinese members on this board whether they like it or not for a start?

 

[Ray]

Shaming them doesn't work when you're the minority. It's like if you're getting discriminated against, you turn around and say, "Hey I'll discriminate against you." I wonder why African Americans never figured that out. Doesn't work and out of touch with reality. What's more, it's unnecessary.

I don't subscribe to being a defeatist.

You can be a friend to your enemy through lack of character, so said our Nobel Laureate.

In my profession I was a minority - real genuine minority! And yet, I stood my ground and they gave way.

African Americans once educated realised their potential and they did not give way then. Martin Luther King got them their way and now you have a Black President that one dreamt could happen.

If you want to be a door mat, you will remain so all your life.

There's no point in discussing this further. My countrymen don't care. Yet, you're getting all worked up. Are you trolling?

I am not trolling and that should be obvious to even the blind!

Which countrymen? Australian or Chinese?

If Australian, they sure do. The ideal example is the Indian origin Australian High Commissioner in India. He was vehement in taking up the Australian refrain, when there was this spate of racial problems pertaining to Indian students in Australia. Likewise, in the US. That guy Preet Bharara's, (the lawyer of Indian origin) record is his gunning for Indian origin and Indian diplomats to uphold "American values"! Therefore, for your own convenience you duck the issue with "My countrymen (taking that you mean Australians) don't care". They sure do, at least the non Chinese variety. I might tell you that there are my relatives and a whole lot of my school friends, who are Anglo Indians, and who have settled in Australia. They sure bat for Australia in a very nationalist, if not jingoistic way, if you will.

I look for erroneous arguments. I've also corrected Chinese members' illogical arguments. See the 'like' I received from maomao.

Bully for you!

Certainly not those who wants to get rid of the union jack. It's not what you feel or claim to feel, it's what you do for your country that defines you.

Isn't it obvious those who want to get rid of the Union Jack?

You conveniently waltz away from the essence of the poem Breathes There the Man... From the Lay of the Last Minstrel by Sir Walter Scott

Breathes there the man, with soul so dead,
Who never to himself hath said,
'This is my own, my native land!'

They're airing discontent with the act. Having trouble reading?

One does not show discontent by flying the adversary's national flag in place of their own Nation' flag. That would be taken by any other nation to be totally disloyal.

The Tibetan or the Uighurs are not very happy with China. Can they unfurl the Free Tibet Flag or the Uighur separatist flag and the Chinese saying that its just that they are showing discontent! They will be dumped in the Laogai and the key thrown away!

I haven't sold anything.

And the connection?

I thought you understood English.

My comment - Does Internet mean that you sell your nationality, patriotism or even being a man of honour? leads you to feel that I am discussing the market place?

To help you along, sell here means To give up or surrender in exchange.

If Indian immigration to Australia is not limited to a few sub-groups, then Australia is more diverse than India.

Diversity of India

Diversity of Physical Features -
Racial Diversity
Linguistic Diversity - Indo-Aryan languages, Dravidian languages, Austroasiatic, Tibeto-Burman, and English too! In fact, there are as per the Indian census of 1961 recognised 1,652 different languages in India
Religious Diversity - Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Islam with the whole gamut of sects, Christianity with its whole gamut of denominations, animism, Brahmos, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, and the Bahá'í Faith, According to a 2001 census of India, the religion of 80% of the people is Hinduism. Islam is practised by around 13% of all Indians, 23 million Christians, over 19 million Sikhs, about 8 million Buddhists and about 4 million Jains
Cultural Diversity - Diversity in Music and Dance forms, dress and dressing, visual art, sculpture, martial art forms, architecture, cuisine, traditions, customs, traditions, procedure for marriages, religious festivals (of the same religion, if you will),

I might add, that the above is of the people of India and not of settlers, as in Australia.

Oh yeah, that's certainly not the vibe I got from his private messages. It's a FACT that some Indian member on this forum pushed him to defend his loyalty. It's also a FACT that some Indian member called him stupid for his ethnicity.

Really?

That is not the impression that I got. His PM to me and e mails indicated where his heart lies, and it was definitely Canada.

PM to you? Whatever for? You are some close blood brother?

Indeed, only but after pages of China bashing despite your deficit in knowledge. I say again, ask if you don't know. Or is that just the way you solicit exchange of information?

It does not require rocket science or even brains to realise the same. Surprising it seems to have gone over your head.

Can anyone fly the Flag of Tibet?

I have no deficit of knowledge. In fact, I have demolished many a Chinese posters tall claims with links and quotes and that is why nimo-cn feels I am paranoid. Do check up some old thread on China, who are the Han, its languages and its differences, cultural and ethic difference and how it was Sinicised and on the Bai Yues and so on and so forth.

I sure solicit information, but am not very partial to accepting false and contrived rigmarole, prompted by misplaced nationalism or aimed to obfuscate and deflect.

Oh you can read their minds now? Good for you!!! I await the day when you become a billionaire by predicting the next Chinese stock market crash. Why don't you ask the Chinese members on this board whether they like it or not for a start?

That you are of Chinese stock is proved. You think, dream. live and sleep money and only money. That is why you think of issues like billionaire and stock market! Now, that required no rocket science did it? One has to be merely observant and that is all that is required.