China warns Obama about Dalai Lama

[ppgj]

well. Once CHinese labour cost gos up as you said and finish all necessary infrastructures...then CHina will have finished its industrialization and already become a developed country...

you are assuming that your industrialisation will continue forever in the same way even after US's collapse. it will have to saturate and come down. also you are forgetting the chain reaction the US collapse will set off and its effect on the world and china(which will be more pronounced than anywhere).

at that time with its huge population advantage, CHina will can easily deprive USA of its global hegemony....

your hegemony will only come when YUAN becomes the most favoured currency for trade.

 

[nimo_cn]

I think people are missing the point here. We don't deny the fact USA is still the NO.1 right now and that it will hold that position in a forseeable future.

But there is another fact that we can not neglect, which is USA has peaked now, while China is ascending.

 

[ZOOM]

Obama is going to CHina with a begging bowl...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/world/asia/15china.html

But how dow we believe such american source as a news? since you chinese, particuler you yourself doesn't approve any western source as a valid pieace of information other then your chinese propoganda.

 

[badguy2000]

But how dow we believe such american source as a news? since you chinese, particuler you yourself doesn't approve any western source as a valid pieace of information other then your chinese propoganda.

well, I always hear the articles from two sides ,then have a comparation.....because I am unlike you, I can read the news from both sides.

furthermore, to overmatch USA, we have to study USA closely,so we have to learn to read english news resources.

 

[mattster]

I think people are missing the point here. We don't deny the fact USA is still the NO.1 right now and that it will hold that position in a forseeable future.

But there is another fact that we can not neglect, which is USA has peaked now, while China is ascending.

China is ascending because it has a socialist dictatorship that can push thru anything it wants to do in the name of development without any debate.

That works for China so far, because people who had nothing are very happy to trade personal freedom for economic prosperity. But what you dont get is that as your population gets more educated and prosperous the younger generation may not be willing the make the same bargain.

It will be a lot harder to come to consensus then compared to now. Then China will have the same gridlock that burdens Western democratic systems of government and your growth rate will slow down.

Your growth rate is mainly a function of your keeping the yuan artificially low.
How long do you think you can play that game ?? At most in my estimate for another 5 years before countries that have serious trade imbalances start applying tarriffs on Chinese products.

The real test of China's ascendency will be seen when about 80% of the Chinese population reach the middle class, then China will have to compete on a level basis with western countries without the cost advantage, or the currency advantage, and with a more cantankerous political system that does not march to the beat of a CCP trumpeteer.

The same is true for India as well; I often hear the same argument from Indians that talk about their growth rate is much higher than the US growth rate and that therefore it is slowly moving forward while major Western countries have peaked off.

The point is when you are so far behind, there is literally no place to go but up.

 

[bittu]

Well China had more then 1 trillion in foreign reserve, would that be interest of China that US dollar maintains this value? If US dollar goes down, what would that 1 trillion worth after?

 

[badguy2000]

Well China had more then 1 trillion in foreign reserve, would that be interest of China that US dollar maintains this value? If US dollar goes down, what would that 1 trillion worth after?

well, if US dollars collapses, it just means that USA sells its hegemoney to China at the price of 1 trillion USD.

 

[Vladimir79]

the following are the brief of main economyies.


China:
low/mid-income labour+high literacy+excellent infrastructure+full industry chains

High literacy??

Illiteracy Jumps in China, Despite 50-Year Campaign to Eradicate It - washingtonpost.com

Even higher education in China is turning into a joke.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/world/asia/03china.html


Industry chains? The only succesful supply chains in China are those owned by Western business selling to their manufacturers. Domestic supply chains are broken by oversupply which has led to empty cities and overstocked warehouses.

Excellent infrastructure?? Is that why everytime there is a minor earthquake the whole region erupts into chaos? CCP has identified over 6,000 bridges in need of replacement. You can't even maintain the infrastructure you have built it is such shoddy construction.

Low/middle income labour?? Have you not been keeping up with the demographic shift in China? The workforce is aging faster than any developing country on earth. Factories in the South are shutting down in the tens of thousands because people are too old to become migratory workers. The issue only increases with time.

The breakneck growth at all costs has dramatically effected the longterm prospects of Chinese prosperity. I wouldn't be pissing on India's grave when they are doing a far more sustainable model of longterm growth.

 

[badguy2000]

High literacy??

Illiteracy Jumps in China, Despite 50-Year Campaign to Eradicate It - washingtonpost.com

Even higher education in China is turning into a joke.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/world/asia/03china.html


Industry chains? The only succesful supply chains in China are those owned by Western business selling to their manufacturers. Domestic supply chains are broken by oversupply which has led to empty cities and overstocked warehouses.

Excellent infrastructure?? Is that why everytime there is a minor earthquake the whole region erupts into chaos? CCP has identified over 6,000 bridges in need of replacement. You can't even maintain the infrastructure you have built it is such shoddy construction.

Low/middle income labour?? Have you not been keeping up with the demographic shift in China? The workforce is aging faster than any developing country on earth. Factories in the South are shutting down in the tens of thousands because people are too old to become migratory workers. The issue only increases with time.

The breakneck growth at all costs has dramatically effected the longterm prospects of Chinese prosperity. I wouldn't be pissing on India's grave when they are doing a far more sustainable model of longterm growth.

you should have told your "great discover" to the investors all over the world....

 

[Vladimir79]

you should have told your "great discover" to the investors all over the world....

You should save your critiques of India when you don't even know what goes on in your own backyard.

 

[royalharris]

You should save your critiques of India when you don't even know what goes on in your own backyard.

stop criticizing other people before changing the your fate of raw material output county. even if india i think have better future with it fast developing ecnomic and technology.

By the way, your military aviation technology is still strong, maybe the only remained one worthy of your boast.

 

[Vladimir79]

stop criticizing other people before changing the your fate of raw material output county. even if india i think have better future with it fast developing ecnomic and technology.

Title of the thread is about China and their boasts, if you can't keep on topic I suggest you leave.

By the way, your military aviation technology is still strong, maybe the only remained one worthy of your boast.

Of course it is as well as much of the rest. We aren't the second largest exporter of arms without a reason. China isn't even in the top ten.

 

[no smoking]

Of course it is as well as much of the rest. We aren't the second largest exporter of arms without a reason. China isn't even in the top ten.

Don't worry, since we are geting richer every day, we'll buy it out from your gov or private.

 

[roma]

The English

Don't worry, since we are geting richer every day, we'll buy it out from your gov or private.

who have been around as a nation for a long time , and are a rather capable yet polite nation would call that " counting your chicikens before they hatch "

 

[roma]

What is the MAIN reason china is sooooo afraid of DL ?
DL and tibetans are showing other "chinese citizens " that "rebellion" against the central govt as a community in a foreign nation, is possible.
That is the #1 issue.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Obama's disappointing trip to China | Midwest Voices

Obama's disappointing trip to China

By The Kansas City Star Editorial Board

When Hillary Clinton made her first visit to Beijing as secretary of state, she remarked that human rights could not be permitted to “interfere” with larger concerns, such as global climate change and financial-market mayhem.

It was an unfortunate way for the new administration to begin its relationship with China. Sadly, this week President Obama only reinforced the message.

In a formal appearance with Chinese President Hu Jintao, Obama mentioned that he had talked with Hu about human rights. He noted that Americans believe all people possess fundamental liberties that should be available to everyone, including religious and ethnic minorities.

Yet Obama passed up opportunities to make his point more forcefully. He shied away from contact with dissidents, representatives of Chinese human rights groups and even ordinary Chinese.

Asked by a reporter about China’s censorship of the Internet, he answered with a reference to America’s vigorous political debates, but didn’t criticize China directly. Even that subdued response was nixed by Chinese censors.

The two powers agreed to cooperate on the economy, military relations and climate change but there weren’t any breakthroughs. Washington needs Chinese help on North Korea and Iran, but little progress was made on those fronts.

Outwardly, the relationship continued as it has — complicated and somewhat contentious on the surface, with an underlying, if surprising, stability.

But Obama’s visit was a kind of test. No doubt the Beijing leadership, striving to carve out a sphere of influence in Asia, now mulls an interesting question: If Obama lacked the assertiveness to put more emphasis on human rights, where else might the U.S. give way?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Chinese officials rip Obama interview from newspaper -- latimes.com

Chinese officials rip Obama interview from newspaper
Many copies of the Southern Weekend were missing the page carrying Obama's exclusive interview, even though it didn't cover anything controversial.
November 20, 2009


Beijing - Even after he left Beijing, President Obama apparently fell afoul of the Chinese censors.

An exclusive interview he gave to Southern Weekend -- a weekly supplement to the Southern Metropolis Daily newspaper -- was published in Thursday's editions, but the page that carried the interview was removed from many copies. And the official online edition of the newspaper had no coverage of the event.

In the short interview, Obama did not address any controversial issues, answering instead bland questions about China's economic development, his love for basketball and trade relations.

The Southern Metropolis was chosen by the White House for the presidential interview because of its reputation for being the hardest-hitting newspaper in China. The newspaper, published in Guangzhou, was not available on most newsstands Thursday.

 

[Vladimir79]

Why is the CCP censoring his lackluster statements? That is a bit overkill even for the oppresive Chinese regime.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

President Obama In China: Please Don?t Mention Human Rights Or Democracy | Stirring Trouble Internationally - A humorous take on news and current affairs | Stirring Trouble Internationally provides an witty, alternative viewpoint on todays news sto

President Obama In China: Please Don’t Mention Human Rights Or Democracy

Obama Hu Jintao Anton Goryunov writes from Moscow: Do you think that US President Barack Obama would raise the issue of human rights and democracy generally during his current visit to China?

Will he, for example, tell Chinese President Hu Jintao during their private little chat something along the lines of: ‘Look, Hu, I know we owe you a hell of a lot of money, but I really need to tell you that you should stop throwing people in jail for their political views and religious beliefs and introduce democratic elections. Or we will find it hard to work with you and your people.’ And President Hu would smile and nod, like all Chinese people do when they’re pissed off big time, and say that he’ll give it a thought when he has a free moment.

Do you think this sort of thing could happen? I personally think that it has about the same chances of happening as NASA finding life on the Moon.

The truth of the matter is that it suits the United States that China remains communist and undemocratic because, let’s face it, if China had a proper free market and a democratic political system it would have been ten, or even a hundred times more powerful by now and would pose a serious threat to American dominance. China’s economic boom is a sham. As long as the communists are running things it would never become a genuine superpower with a modern economy. It will be big, yes, but it will also be clumsy and inefficient and corrupt and look after the chosen few. And it will be using cheap ineffective labour that is never a good thing for any modern economy.

Hundreds of millions in China have no rights, no voice, no social protection, with many talented and resourceful people being denied the right to open their own businesses and prosper in a proper capitalist way. They toil at huge enterprises for low salaries, producing cheap goods for the West. And the West is only too happy to consume these cheap goods, pumping billions into the Chinese economy and propping up the vicious communist regime. (Some people even compare what is happening now with the way Western banks and big companies were supporting Nazi Germany until it all turned sour for them.)

For America to pretend that it cares about democracy around the world and yet, ignore a ruthless communist regime in China smacks of blatant hypocrisy, pure and simple. It is absurd to see the US, along with other Western countries, developing closer links with a dictatorship that should have been ostracised and condemned for its crimes against its own people. But economic considerations are more important for America and that is why it is allowing the communist thugs in Beijing to continue mismanaging the economy, ripping off their people and suppressing all forms of decent.

The Obama Administration in this respect is no different from the previous ones. In fact, President Obama would probably be even more supportive of China, considering the mess that America has found itself in, created by the big banks. The US owes a lot of money to the Chinese and obviously has no desire to raise the issue of democratic reforms and get the Chinese communists all upset.

President Obama has already demonstrated his unwillingness to appease his good friends in Beijing by refusing to meet the Dalai Lama, who had visited the US earlier this year. And this alone tells us that this Administration has a pragmatic approach to human rights and democracy abroad. It is all very nice US officials to talk about freedom when it suits them and when they need to interfere into the affairs of other countries, like it happened in Iraq, is happening in Afghanistan and would probably happen in Latin America.

So don’t expect President Obama to upset his Chine hosts. He’ll be all smiles and handshakes and praise for the communists leaders, reading from the autocue and sticking to the nice script.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Why is Obama acquiescing to China on key issues? - By Daniel Blumenthal | Shadow Government

Obama's Asia trip: a series of unfortunate events



The New ForeignPolicy.com
Global News : Passport : Ricks : Drezner : Walt : Rothkopf : Lynch
The Cable : The AfPak Blog : Net Effect : Shadow Govt. : Madam Secretary : The Call
Obama's Asia trip: a series of unfortunate events
Wed, 11/18/2009 - 2:48pm

By Daniel Blumenthal

Before President Obama and Chinese President Hu Jintao released their joint statement, Obama's Asia trip was underwhelming. But after the statement, Obama's foray into Asia went from empty to harmful.

Before Obama arrived in China, the trip's policy successes were minimal at best. He showed up to a major trade forum, APEC, with no trade policy. If, as Evan Feigenbaum has said, the "business of Asia is business," without a trade policy Obama is putting America out of business in the world's most economically dynamic region. And then he was stiffed by Japanese Prime Minister Hatoyama's outright rejection of the American proposal for a high-level dialogue to resolve basing issues on Okinawa. Not exactly a sterling performance by the new team.

But then came the joint statement after talks with President Hu. Two items in the statement struck me: one about Taiwan, the other in regard to India.

On Taiwan, the statement says:

The two countries reiterated that the fundamental principle of respect for each other's sovereignty and territorial integrity is at the core of the three U.S.-China joint communiqués which guide U.S.-China relations. Neither side supports any attempts by any force to undermine this principle. The two sides agreed that respecting each other's core interests is extremely important to ensure steady progress in U.S.-China relations.

The three communiqués do indeed mention respect for territorial integrity. But it is highly arguable that "respect for ... sovereignty and territorial integrity" represent the "core" of the understandings that led to Sino-American rapprochement. The Taiwan issue was treated more delicately by earlier American statesmen. Their basic idea was that we would acknowledge, without accepting, the position that Taiwan is part of China. We would continue strong, unofficial diplomatic ties with the island and we would provide for its security through the Taiwan Relations Act (TRA). We thus found a way to normalize relations with China without letting China have its way with Taiwan. Both sides of the Strait have prospered since the U.S. rapprochement with China and the signing into law of the TRA and relations have been more or less peaceful.

Now consider the situation across the Strait today. China has built a military capable of destroying the island if America does not assist Taiwan. Though obligated by law, the Obama administration has not sold a single weapon system to Taiwan. There is in fact no U.S.-Taiwan agenda under the Obama administration. It is even more dangerous, then, to stress the parts of the Sino-American normalization documents that most appeal to China. Of course China wants us to reiterate that our respect for "territorial integrity" and "sovereignty" is at the core of the three communiqués. Beijing wants us to accept its argument that Taiwan is part of China and that we should respect their sovereignty over the island. Obama has thus far done so through deed. With the joint statement he comes closer to officially accepting the Chinese claim of sovereignty.

On India, the joint statement says:

The two sides welcomed all efforts conducive to peace, stability and development in South Asia. They support the efforts of Afghanistan and Pakistan to fight terrorism, maintain domestic stability and achieve sustainable economic and social development, and support the improvement and growth of relations between India and Pakistan. The two sides are ready to strengthen communication, dialogue and cooperation on issues related to South Asia and work together to promote peace, stability and development in that region.

Here, President Obama broke new ground in ways harmful to both American and Indian interests. India and Japan are the two countries within Asia that can check China's desired dominance. For now, China has less to worry about with Japan as the Hatayoma government sorts through its foreign policies. But India is a different matter. It stood firm against China's pressure when the Dalai Lama visited Arunachal Pradesh, an Indian territory claimed by China. Delhi was sending two messages. First, do not interfere in India's internal affairs; the Dalai Lama is free to visit anywhere in India. Second, Arunachal Pradesh is India's territory. China had been putting military pressure on the border region but the Indians did not back down. Delhi is also standing firm in its maritime competition with China in the Indian Ocean. The Indian Navy will not allow China to build a sphere of influence in that maritime region.

Beijing's India strategy is to tie it down in South Asia to stop it from breaking out as a major power. The strategy has three basic pillars. First, Beijing has supported Pakistan's nuclear and conventional military programs. Second, China wants an acknowledged sphere of influence in South Asia. And third, Beijing wants to resurrect the so called "hyphenated" approach to India. It thus needs the United States to again think of India as part of an India-Pakistan problem, rather than as an emerging great power.

During the Bush and Clinton administrations, Delhi and Washington negotiated an arrangement that acknowledged Delhi's global role and increasing influence. This arrangement is of mutual benefit. Pakistan matters less to India as Delhi expands its strategic horizons. As Pakistan's importance to India lessons, so will Indian-Pakistani tensions. But as India frees itself from the weight of its Pakistan problem it has greater maneuverability to increase its influence in East Asia. China is threatened by that.

Thus, China won a diplomatic victory by getting Washington to agree to "cooperate" on issues of peace and development in South Asia. If China and America work together on South Asian issues, such as peace between India and Pakistan, then China is the great power while India is simply another South Asian country that needs help from others to solve its problems. With the joint statement, Obama officially accorded India junior status in Asia.

We should not be surprised by China's positions. What is surprising -- and extremely problematic -- is that on these key issues Obama is acquiescing in them.