China sweeps aside civilians in rush for hydropower

W.G.Ewald

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Need to be spoon-fed? It is in English. Do your own homework. I am not Fox news to tell you want to think. I provided the article. The rest is up to you.
It is Chinese who are "spoon-fed" by their government.

If there were evidence in that enormous report which would have supported your argument, a reasonable person would have quoted it.

But there isn't, and you can't, evidently.

Don't know why you are obsessed with Fox News. Chinese guy here has screen name of CCTV
(official Chinese news) and there is no problem with that?
 

ice berg

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It is Chinese who are "spoon-fed" by their government.

If there were evidence in that enormous report which would have supported your argument, a reasonable person would have quoted it.

But there isn't, and you can't, evidently.

Don't know why you are obsessed with Fox News. Chinese guy here has screen name of CCTV
(official Chinese news) and there is no problem with that?
Any resonable person would have read it and then comment, unless you are an american used to watch Fox news.

Too used to watching TV and too lazy to read an article? Not even the index?
 

W.G.Ewald

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Any resonable person would have read it and then comment, unless you are an american used to watch Fox news.

Too used to watching TV and too lazy to read an article? Not even the index?
Every reply by you is just another evasion and personal attack. Perhaps you should check with t_co about your debating tactics. :-D
 

Tianshan

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Any resonable person would have read it and then comment, unless you are an american used to watch Fox news.

Too used to watching TV and too lazy to read an article? Not even the index?
you know w.g. edwald is an indian right?

just look at any of his posts to see.

on topic, i am very glad that indians are so focused on "what is wrong with china", instead of "what is right with india". they have killed their own economic growth story in this obsession and i hope they continue.
 

ice berg

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Can anyone tell with authority what is the value of a Shanghai and Beijing City Hukou permit.
Well, I am certainly not an authority, but the permit gives you access to social welfare, education opportunities for your children , healthcare etc.
Also what is the value of a Taiwan, Macua, Hong Kong (Citizenship). Are people from Taiwan, Macau, Hong Kong asked to apply for Hukuo permits. Can PRC citizens travel freely into Taiwan, Macau and Hong Kong do they need a Hukou permit.
Is this ubranisation that one speaks by PRC being done to "smaller" cities and not major cities like Beijing and Shanghai.
The urbanization IS the smaller cities. You only hear about the big ones though because they are more visible.
Is this a way to placate the rural people into thinking they have upgraded themselves by providing Hukou permits in smaller cities and regions.

The dream of working and living in Beijing and Shanghai is only for certain people. The best treated Chinese in PRC are still the people from Taiwan and Hong Kong, Macau next follows overseas Chinese from American and UK and after that the PRC citizens in big cities and after that PRC citizens in small cities and after that PRC citizens in villages. It is like a caste system.
Social mobility. You dont have that in a caste system. You born a dalit, you die a dalit. Therefore not the same.
Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau are the top level of Hukua that is beyond the reach of majority of PRC people. Yet the government claims the regions to be "One Country"
Hukou of any major chinese cities are enough, not just those you mentioned
The communist party was built on the support of the countryside. How times have change.
Half of chinese population now lives in the cities.
related to the thread is the below news item:

China's Soviet-Style Suburbia Heralds Environmental Pain - Bloomberg
Read above
 

ice berg

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Every reply by you is just another evasion and personal attack. Perhaps you should check with t_co about your debating tactics. :-D
I have provided books and OECD reports. Not my fault that certain poster have trouble reading references. I guess if I dont provide you with a vid clip, then I am been evasive. :-D
 

ice berg

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you know w.g. edwald is an indian right?

just look at any of his posts to see.

on topic, i am very glad that indians are so focused on "what is wrong with china", instead of "what is right with india". they have killed their own economic growth story in this obsession and i hope they continue.
No, I believe he is an american, However born in the cold war, his view is coloured by that. Well, he is just a product of his time.
 

W.G.Ewald

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No, I believe he is an american, However born in the cold war, his view is coloured by that. Well, he is just a product of his time.
As a product of my time, I admire Chinese who worked with AVG (Flying Tigers) and who protected survivors of the Doolittle raid on Tokyo. The latter paid a terrible price exacted by the Japanese.
 

W.G.Ewald

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I have provided books and OECD reports. Not my fault that certain poster have trouble reading references. I guess if I dont provide you with a vid clip, then I am been evasive. :-D
To paraphrase Mark Twain, OECD reports are "chloroform in print."
 

CCTV

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As a product of my time, I admire Chinese who worked with AVG (Flying Tigers) and who protected survivors of the Doolittle raid on Tokyo. The latter paid a terrible price exacted by the Japanese.
Your Fox News did not tell you where Japanese ' s oil and steels from at that time. We know the US keep supply steel and oil to Japan until 1941 and Japan 's invasion happened at 1937.

Did they tell you at that time Japan's oil and high grade steel heavily depend on import ,mainly (80%)from US.
 
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bennedose

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Where does it say that all migrants into city is forced because their land was taken from them? Just because some are forced dosnt means all are forced.
And individuals cant fight? hehehe.

China Protest Forcing Nuclear Retreat Shows People Power - Bloomberg

Protests in a southern Chinese city last week that forced local authorities to abandon plans for a uranium-processing facility highlight the growing willingness of ordinary people to challenge the state on environmental issues.
LOL

Every time I point out that protests are not allowed in China someone posts this exact same news item about one solitary, single protest that stopped a reprocessing plant. I made a post and asked a question that no one answered - I will post that question again in a separate post.

Meanwhile thank you for admitting that some Chinese are being forced in China's rush for urbanization. Now the only thing we need to agree on is what percentage are being forced and what they can do to get justice. When cities expand agricultural areas get occupied and agricultural land residents get displaced. This is quite natural. The question is what happens to those agricultural area residents?

In China they become urban residents. So far so good. How much compensation they get is another matter. I will ask about that after I get some information. The 70 page pdf that you have not read has no information on the quantum of compensation. Maybe there is none because the state or collectives own all the land. But I digress..

When an agricultural land resident holding an agricultural hukou becomes and urban resident, his hukou does not change automatically to a non agricultural hukou. That means this person, who was displaced from his land and forced to become an urban resident, possibly accommodated in some newly built flat that he has to pay for is not entitled to pension, medical benefits, old age pension, maternity leave and unemployment benefit. The man loses his land and home and gets virtually nothing in return. Technically, the government hopes he gets employed by some magic, which is how "urbanization" is supposed to help.

China's castes system is an interesting one.
 
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bennedose

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I suggest you read it again. This time read it without a ready conclusion.
Right now you have a theory and trying to fit the article into your theory.
This is funny. It reminds me of a petty communist functionary being tasked with re education of a dissident during the cultural revolution. The text won't change. But the idea is to make the mind change.

Can't Chinese get rid of these silly hangovers from the cultural revolution? Differences of opinion will exist. No need to get worked up. You have not read that pdf yourself. But even re education in the cultural revolution was often illiterates re educating the educated.
 

ice berg

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LOL

Every time I point out that protests are not allowed in China someone posts this exact same news item about one solitary, single protest that stopped a reprocessing plant. I made a post and asked a question that no one answered - I will post that question again in a separate post.
Your laziness is making me bored:
Protest and dissent in the People's Republic of China.
Is typing those words too hard for you?
Protest and dissent in the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Meanwhile thank you for admitting that some Chinese are being forced in China's rush for urbanization. Now the only thing we need to agree on is what percentage are being forced and what they can do to get justice. When cities expand agricultural areas get occupied and agricultural land residents get displaced. This is quite natural. The question is what happens to those agricultural area residents?
Good that you dont claim any more that the whole urbanization is forced. We are getting somewhere.
Regarding to compensation:
Viderekoblingsmerknad
Or you just google. Cant be that hard?
In China they become urban residents. So far so good. How much compensation they get is another matter. I will ask about that after I get some information. The 70 page pdf that you have not read has no information on the quantum of compensation. Maybe there is none because the state or collectives own all the land. But I digress..
See answer above or google. Expropriation = compensation by law.
When an agricultural land resident holding an agricultural hukou becomes and urban resident, his hukou does not change automatically to a non agricultural hukou. That means this person, who was displaced from his land and forced to become an urban resident, possibly accommodated in some newly built flat that he has to pay for is not entitled to pension, medical benefits, old age pension, maternity leave and unemployment benefit. The man loses his land and home and gets virtually nothing in return. Technically, the government hopes he gets employed by some magic, which is how "urbanization" is supposed to help.
China's castes system is an interesting one.
heheheheh. It always make me giggle when an Indian tryting to excuse their "great" caste system.
The difference between Indian caste system and China is social mobility.
Ever heard of that?
In india you born a dalit, you die a dalit.
In China, you can move up the ladder.
 

ice berg

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This is funny. It reminds me of a petty communist functionary being tasked with re education of a dissident during the cultural revolution. The text won't change. But the idea is to make the mind change.

Can't Chinese get rid of these silly hangovers from the cultural revolution? Differences of opinion will exist. No need to get worked up. You have not read that pdf yourself. But even re education in the cultural revolution was often illiterates re educating the educated.
This is funny. It reminds me of a petty frog in a well who have never been to the outside.
In this case you have never been to China, never bothered to read the article yet have the gale to question others?
You didnt know the article existed until I pointed out for you.
Keep moving the goal posts:)
 

Dovah

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heheheheh. It always make me giggle when an Indian tryting to excuse their "great" caste system.
The difference between Indian caste system and China is social mobility.
Ever heard of that?
In india you born a dalit, you die a dalit.
In China, you can move up the ladder.
But in India Dalits can form one of the largest regional political parties and a Dalit lady can form a government in the most populous (and backward) state in the country. :(
 

ice berg

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But in India Dalits can form one of the largest regional political parties and a Dalit lady can form a government in the most populous (and backward) state in the country. :(
How many dalits can survive on her assets? What about the " memorials" that she builded?

You must be running out of politicians to use such controversial charater as your exemple.

If there is one thing in common between India and China,then that is corrupt politicians.
 

Dovah

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How many dalits can survive on her assets? What about the " memorials" that she builded?
Irrelevant, you said people "born dalit die dalit"( while Chinese can pull themselves out of their misery). I gave you an example how people born in dalit families can elevate themselves to the very top.

You must be running out of politicians to use such controversial charater as your exemple.
Irrelevant again.

:(
 

bennedose

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In China, you can move up the ladder.
But you cannot move across the Hukou caste border. Agricultural hukou. Kicked out of your home into urban flats. No land. No job no benefits.

This hukou system is very interesting. As per the 70 page pdf that you are yet to read, urban hukou were changed to rural hukou in the 1960s when the government felt that the economy did not have enough money for benefits. That sounds like a scam to me. City dwellers are promised benefits, but when the government has no money .Out you go. You are no longer eligible for the benefits.

II hear that a lot of Chinese have become personally wealthy. In India wealthy individuals often buy a rural estate several acres in size and build a retreat far away from flats, elevators and traffic. What does a Chinese who wants to live out of the city do? Is he/she allowed to build a large private estate? What happens to his hukou?

Sometimes this wealthy man in his large estate in India may get into his car and drive 500 km to another city for a friend's birthday. Or students may simply leave their city hostel for a weekend and travel to a hill destination hundreds of km away for a weekend. Is this sort of casual travel permissible in China?
 

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