China Stalls India's Move On Hizbul Mujahideen, United Jihad Council Chief: Salahuddin

[brational]

Cunning Chinese are worried because once they put pressure on Pack, terrorist activities will grow in Xinjiang (with Baki aid). Moreover, China may lose the free pass in Packland. Chinese are not fools, they know the repercussions if they step on to the tail of Baki dogs.
Chinese veto simply reflects their fear of terrorist attacks in Xinjiang.
Better we act on own rather than crying in UN assembly. Let China sing the Baki tune. We must explore the Uighurs too, because it is better to aid uighurs and let China blame us. China will keep on blaming us even if we do nothing to aid uighurs. [emoji624]

 

[Compersion]

At least Americans were paying in cash and western connections ...

Pakis ought to demand better terms and benefits in terms of the service they are providing and have provided to PRC some will say. One might say that this service will be in perpetuity and everyone knows when Pakis feel and react when they are not given enough respect and terms according to what they deserve which some will say is justified according to their status.

 

[no smoking]

At least Americans were paying in cash and western connections ...

Pakis ought to demand better terms and benefits in terms of the service they are providing and have provided to PRC some will say. One might say that this service will be in perpetuity and everyone knows when Pakis feel and react when they are not given enough respect and terms according to what they deserve which some will say is justified according to their status.

Obviously, Pakistan doesn't agree with you.
Generally, Chinese offered more than Pakistan asked while Pakistan returned more than Chinese offered.
Both sides are quite happy about this relationship.

 

[Compersion]

Obviously, Pakistan doesn't agree with you.
Generally, Chinese offered more than Pakistan asked while Pakistan returned more than Chinese offered.
Both sides are quite happy about this relationship.

I only use the words you provide : "quite happy". Why not happy. We know how a relationship is not judged and determined by two individuals and not determined by a single moment in time. "Quite Happy" will not do for Pakis anytime. It might work for PRC at this time.

The Pakis requests and demands to the USA after 1968 is well known and one can say justify what they did and frankly USA paid a lot of money and looked away many times. The Americans (credit to them) have started to delink since the system output one can say was not aligned. But it has nothing to do with American not being happy with Pakistan but simply because of alignment.

The reason why Yahya Khan picture is not hanging on every wall in PRC is unknown.

Also we know that Nawaz Sharif few years ago drove by himself in a car from Pakistan to Agra by road - He said the memory of that was strong. Why does he say that.

Like I said earlier Pakis have strong emotional realizations. Two Nation Theory is it a emotional realization (a sense of belonging to something bigger).

And the beauty is PRC has set a standard where what they did not even do (is it able??) in North Korea (in fact anywhere in the world) what they will try and do in Pakistan and what they have promised the nation of Pakistan. They have set the standard high.

And India is not objecting.

It would be good if Pakis have development and would bring stability.

The Pakis stock exchange is doing really well must be because of the PRC. The IMF not the PRC gave loan to Pakis. The PRC must have told IMF to do that. The Pakis are "quite happy" about these.

The Indians know that Pakis if they ask Indian help economically and structurally it will be much better compared to PRC but we are not given a chance at this point of time. There is also many other parameters that India might be focusing on bigger and more mature areas.

At this time India is "really happy" what PRC is trying to do with Pakistan.

I am sure the PRC people know already they must never say and ask the Pakistan people what they have done for PRC.

PRC please dont disappoint Pakistan.

 

[no smoking]

I only use the words you provide : "quite happy". Why not happy. We know how a relationship is not judged and determined by two individuals and not determined by a single moment in time. "Quite Happy" will not do for Pakis anytime. It might work for PRC at this time.

Said by who? An Indian? Yes, you know lot better than Pakistan.

The Pakis requests and demands to the USA after 1968 is well known and one can say justify what they did and frankly USA paid a lot of money and looked away many times. The Americans (credit to them) have started to delink since the system output one can say was not aligned. But it has nothing to do with American not being happy with Pakistan but simply because of alignment.

Wrong, it got everything to do with American. They just don't need Pakistan as much as before.

The reason why Yahya Khan picture is not hanging on every wall in PRC is unknown.

Also we know that Nawaz Sharif few years ago drove by himself in a car from Pakistan to Agra by road - He said the memory of that was strong. Why does he say that.

Like I said earlier Pakis have strong emotional realizations. Two Nation Theory is it a emotional realization (a sense of belonging to something bigger).

Don't know what you are trying to say here.

And the beauty is PRC has set a standard where what they did not even do (is it able??) in North Korea (in fact anywhere in the world) what they will try and do in Pakistan and what they have promised the nation of Pakistan. They have set the standard high.

What the standard you are talking about here, can you be more specific?

And India is not objecting.

Where you get that? India is the object, one of the most important objects for both countries.

It would be good if Pakis have development and would bring stability.

The Pakis stock exchange is doing really well must be because of the PRC. The IMF not the PRC gave loan to Pakis. The PRC must have told IMF to do that. The Pakis are "quite happy" about these.

If Pakistan gets any loan from IMF? It is American's effort, Chinese doesn't have that power over IMF.

The Indians know that Pakis if they ask Indian help economically and structurally it will be much better compared to PRC but we are not given a chance at this point of time. There is also many other parameters that India might be focusing on bigger and more mature areas.
At this time India is "really happy" what PRC is trying to do with Pakistan.

Glad you are "really happy" about the cooperation between Pakistan and China.

I am sure the PRC people know already they must never say and ask the Pakistan people what they have done for PRC.

Why ask some question we already know the answer?

PRC please dont disappoint Pakistan.

Don't worry, we won't as long as our common friend--India is here.

 

[Compersion]

Said by who? An Indian? Yes, you know lot better than Pakistan.

Wrong, it got everything to do with American. They just don't need Pakistan as much as before.
Don't know what you are trying to say here.
What the standard you are talking about here, can you be more specific?
Where you get that? India is the object, one of the most important objects for both countries.
If Pakistan gets any loan from IMF? It is American's effort, Chinese doesn't have that power over IMF.
Glad you are "really happy" about the cooperation between Pakistan and China.
Why ask some question we already know the answer?
Don't worry, we won't as long as our common friend--India is here.

When PRC ask for the red carpet and want to come into India.

When PRC send a signal to us that we ought to listen to PRC and it is premature to do anything and warned us.

Seems kind of PRC.

With that.

What is the PRC singing these days a nursery rhyme. Why it can talk in such comfortable terms with India. Why can use such intellectual terms and words is it stress-free.

Please don't disappoint Pakistan. India has given the hint and warning.

It will be good for the region if you fail and if you do not fail (being "quite happy").

India can make PRC make some really funny decisions.

Q. Why does PRC want Red Carpet to come to India. Why does PRC talk like they want to abandon Pakistan with India. Do you think Pakistan has not notice.

Sometimes i am impressed how Pakistan can make others to make decisions but i realize it is out of fear that they will do harm to it. One cannot remove Pakistan from its calculations (credit to them but not sure it is the right way).

PRC wants to have a reason to abandon Pakistan and it is risky how they are going about it. PRC wants something substantial in return. Is the choice there. Does India know nothing it is doing.

PRC understands that if it were to abandon Pakistan it would embolden India. Sure India will get embolden but on its own and not because someone realizes what is good for them. Also Pakistan is understanding and watching closely what PRC is doing this time (they are being embolden - Pakistan needs to see the strength in the relationship with India and what they have done before and later for others like PRC - (1) being a thorn and (2) even by having closer economic relationship with India).

What else PRC wants to tell to India.

PRC sees no potential and benefit of having close and strong relationship with India is that what is being said with relationship with Pakistan. India is a small country with small reserves and small human resources. India will not be good for PRC.

Please go ahead with Pakistan. Please do not disappoint Pakistan. PRC is the favorites there is no pressure.

I am sure India has hinted to PRC people that closeness with Pakistan is hasty. Abandoning Pakistan will make PRC stronger. PRC needs to abandon Pakistan on its own. But why would Pakistan allow that to happen in a smooth way. (PRC holds many US Treasuries. Why not withdraw some and invest in Pakistan. Why keep that many Treasuries.)

Many PRC policy seems wonderful and thoughtful from the outside but when one looks closely it is messy. And Pakistan has PRC by its crown jewels. America has massive distance in between and much of the west does also.

India is not objecting because we would really like someone to develop and make Pakistan strong and stable. Its honest we want people of Pakistan to understand that. But we also know the reality and have given warning and hint to PRC like PRC was kind enough to do for us please do not disappoint Pakistan.

Objecting:
"say something to express one's disapproval of or disagreement with something."
"residents object to the volume of traffic"

Pakistan Stock Exchange
IMF


And India will not be part of the reason if PRC fails in Pakistan. Be assured about that. The Americans know that. The Pakistan people know that.

Pakistan also is understanding slowly that if India gets into Pakistan it will only make PRC perform better (will leave the analysis of that for later). Will PRC abandon Pakistan if India gets closer with Pakistan (a question Pakistan is also asking these days wondering what will be the reason why PRC keeps relationship to be "quite happy" only).

Pakistan is watching how and what PRC deliver carefully this time. Standard is high. Too many emotions and promises made by PRC to Pakistan. It is a monthly review it seems now. Iron brothers, sky high, water deep and Yahya Khan ...

"Wrong, it got everything to do with American. They just don't need Pakistan as much as before."

 

[no smoking]

Q. Why does PRC want Red Carpet to come to India. Why does PRC talk like they want to abandon Pakistan with India. Do you think Pakistan has not notice.
What else PRC wants to tell to India.

Where did you get that impression? Investing 46b dollars in a country is really not a sign of abandoning her.

I am sure India has hinted to PRC people that closeness with Pakistan is hasty. Abandoning Pakistan will make PRC stronger. PRC needs to abandon Pakistan on its own. But why would Pakistan allow that to happen in a smooth way. (PRC holds many US Treasuries. Why not withdraw some and invest in Pakistan. Why keep that many Treasuries.)

I am sure that is not the message Chinese received.

Many PRC policy seems wonderful and thoughtful from the outside but when one looks closely it is messy. And Pakistan has PRC by its crown jewels. America has massive distance in between and much of the west does also.

Pakistan is still receiving huge amount of military and economic aid from American each year.

India is not objecting because we would really like someone to develop and make Pakistan strong and stable. Its honest we want people of Pakistan to understand that. But we also know the reality and have given warning and hint to PRC like PRC was kind enough to do for us please do not disappoint Pakistan.

Well, India really need to review its communication capability. Obviously, neither China, nor Pakistan feels that.

And India will not be part of the reason if PRC fails in Pakistan. Be assured about that. The Americans know that. The Pakistan people know that.

Pakistan also is understanding slowly that if India gets into Pakistan it will only make PRC perform better (will leave the analysis of that for later). Will PRC abandon Pakistan if India gets closer with Pakistan (a question Pakistan is also asking these days wondering what will be the reason why PRC keeps relationship to be "quite happy" only).

Pakistan is watching how and what PRC deliver carefully this time. Standard is high. Too many emotions and promises made by PRC to Pakistan. It is a monthly review it seems now. Iron brothers, sky high, water deep and Yahya Khan ...

"Wrong, it got everything to do with American. They just don't need Pakistan as much as before."

Has anyone told you that you should start your analysis from ground reality instead of your own emotional belief?
God, I really don't know what you are talking about! You are talking something happening on another planet.

 

[Compersion]

Where did you get that impression? Investing 46b dollars in a country is really not a sign of abandoning her.
I am sure that is not the message Chinese received.
Pakistan is still receiving huge amount of military and economic aid from American each year.
Well, India really need to review its communication capability. Obviously, neither China, nor Pakistan feels that.
And India will not be part of the reason if PRC fails in Pakistan. Be assured about that. The Americans know that. The Pakistan people know that.
Has anyone told you that you should start your analysis from ground reality instead of your own emotional belief?
God, I really don't know what you are talking about! You are talking something happening on another planet.

Even North Korea did not get 42 billionsss - but why and that is a much closer alliance and even has history of comrade and companionship. Was it because the 42 billionsss equivalent was done much earlier and it was a guise for making it a hegemony and military control. What is the breakdown of 42 Billions in Pakistan and wont Pakistan people ask that eventually.

PRC has planned it. Pakistan wants to be part of bigger group and feeling but it knows when to react - Soviet Union, America, India.

Please don't treat Pakistan to be kids and with lessened common sense. That is extremely dangerous. You seem to discount any disturbance and obstruction and even delinquency happening between PRC and Pakistan. You think Pakistan is absolutely under PRC control.

When they ask and have questions. Do you think the response from PRC will be of comrade and companionship. When they want more. When they doubt. Even with India the PRC wants a red carpet.

What happens if there is no development and advancement ... they already see how PRC behave and you can see from within Pakistan that analysis of PRC (the ground reality) and it goes all the way to the top (dont worry not all the way like you think but God knows the truth).

Do you think Pakistan will not have questions. Do you think Pakistan will not ask why PRC try and abandon it. Do you think Pakistan will not ask why "quite happy" but not "happy".

One reason why the West and America hand is still held on but the massive distance is the safeguard it has because Pakistan does not like being double crossed.

The funny thing and it hits the emotional chord strongly is that PRC does not even like Pakistan (making it the "first" demonstration of outward investment never done before is LOL). It is being used explicitly and Pakistan is not going to be silent about it. Too many references that Pakistan is being used to by PRC for a purpose.

That way why is it easy to make PRC think of abandoning Pakistan and also the reality that Pakistan will think why PRC wants to abandon it. To deviate that PRC will only announce and make Pakistan feel like you say "emotional beliefs" that they are Iron brothers, sky high, water deep and Yahya Khan ... that is the ground reality.

Pakistan is not a bunch of idiots that PRC is making them out to be. PRC knows it has (many different types of) restive characters on the far west.

Another funny thing is that PRC people and interlocutors are able to talk with sense and even touch emotional chords. Try doing that with a angry Pakistan. Pakistan is not a Myanmar.

I add a small passage here on India (i leave the ground reality and emotional beliefs for later) ***** there have been clear instances where the message has been that we want Pakistan to continue and have no ill to the Pakistan people. Shimla Agreement is one. There are other at least two big examples. Another will be when there is India vs PRC investment and competition inside Pakistan. Will Pakistan have the strength and will power to be ordinary.

Please go ahead with Pakistan. Please do not disappoint Pakistan. PRC is the favorites there is no pressure.

"Pakis ought to demand better terms and benefits in terms of the service they are providing and have provided to PRC some will say. One might say that this service will be in perpetuity and everyone knows when Pakis feel and react when they are not given enough respect and terms according to what they deserve which some will say is justified according to their status."

Does PRC want such a Perpetuity. Will PRC be afraid of the angry Pakistan and Pakistan will demand more and more. But there is talk of abandoning it !! PRC is pragmatic and knows that and that is one good thing which I am sure is taken into account and they will be able to convince the Pakistan people of not making it "happy" and reasons why.

I am sure PRC interlocutors that manage the PRC policy that are pragmatic start analysis from ground reality instead of emotional beliefs. PRC become a reason for Pakistan and India closeness (dont be surprised to hear this more and more). In fact PRC will try and say that themselves but Pakistan will read through it this time.

-----> The physical connection of Pakistan is through a small passage way on the furthest of the furthest far west of PRC.

-----> PRC leaders would like PRC not to be bothered with such second-rate thinking (that takes up unnecessary energy and struggle that is injurious to its health) and would prefer a more advanced coordination and complexion that is develop on the PRC nation.

The above is all a emotional belief.

 

[amoy]

China will not disappoint Pakistan nor will Pakistan do so to China.

How many vetos has the US cast for Israel in UN? Last time checked ~ 32 times. Why could the US win over so many allies worldwide as a sole surperpower? It's a proven track record of backing buddies in times of need.

That's indeed a friendship higher than Himalayas China and Pakistan shall model ours on.



~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

 

[ezsasa]

China will not disappoint Pakistan nor will Pakistan do so to China.

How many vetos has the US cast for Israel in UN? Last time checked ~ 32 times. Why could the US win over so many allies worldwide as a sole surperpower? It's a proven track record of backing buddies in times of need.

That's indeed a friendship higher than Himalayas China and Pakistan shall model ours on.



~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

History indicates that pakis blackmails its friends on a regular basis. Example being how American supply trucks were destroyed passing thru Pakistan some years back, interesting bit was that this period coincided with negotiations over transit cost per truck to be paid to pakis by Americans. Second example is recent afghan parliament attack when ISI-NDS intelligence deal was failing.

I can safely assume that with in the decade from this year, pakis will be charging China for stopping terrorism in China. You will start seeing deadly attacks in China whenever negotiations are not going in favour of pakis.

Enjoy.......

 

[no smoking]

History indicates that pakis blackmails its friends on a regular basis. Example being how American supply trucks were destroyed passing thru Pakistan some years back, interesting bit was that this period coincided with negotiations over transit cost per truck to be paid to pakis by Americans. Second example is recent afghan parliament attack when ISI-NDS intelligence deal was failing.

I can safely assume that with in the decade from this year, pakis will be charging China for stopping terrorism in China. You will start seeing deadly attacks in China whenever negotiations are not going in favour of pakis.

Enjoy.......

Well, an Indian talks about Pakistan, what else you can expect.

 

[no smoking]

Even North Korea did not get 42 billionsss - but why and that is a much closer alliance and even has history of comrade and companionship. Was it because the 42 billionsss equivalent was done much earlier and it was a guise for making it a hegemony and military control.

Investing $42b in Pakistan is more profitable than in North Korea. By building up infrastructure in Pakistan, Chinese can access the market of middle east, central asia and south asia. With North korea, there is no much economic return.

What is the breakdown of 42 Billions in Pakistan and wont Pakistan people ask that eventually.

Well, that is the question their own government should answer.

Please don't treat Pakistan to be kids and with lessened common sense. That is extremely dangerous. You seem to discount any disturbance and obstruction and even delinquency happening between PRC and Pakistan. You think Pakistan is absolutely under PRC control.

You should keep reminding yourselves about this. Pakistan knows what they are doing. They know what they are going to get and what they are going to gain.

When they ask and have questions. Do you think the response from PRC will be of comrade and companionship. When they want more. When they doubt. Even with India the PRC wants a red carpet.

Why they need to ask? They have a deal with Chinese. If Chinese fails to deliver, they have every right halt the contract.

What happens if there is no development and advancement ... they already see how PRC behave and you can see from within Pakistan that analysis of PRC (the ground reality) and it goes all the way to the top (dont worry not all the way like you think but God knows the truth).

This is business deal. So do the same thing as everyone else facing an unsuccessful business: terminate the business and look for new opportunity.

Do you think Pakistan will not have questions. Do you think Pakistan will not ask why PRC try and abandon it. Do you think Pakistan will not ask why "quite happy" but not "happy".

There is dispute even between best friends. Both Chinese and Pakistanis are mature enough to settle their dispute.

One reason why the West and America hand is still held on but the massive distance is the safeguard it has because Pakistan does not like being double crossed.

Just as I said, the West doesn’t need Pakistan as much as before.

The funny thing and it hits the emotional chord strongly is that PRC does not even like Pakistan (making it the "first" demonstration of outward investment never done before is LOL). It is being used explicitly and Pakistan is not going to be silent about it. Too many references that Pakistan is being used to by PRC for a purpose.

Where you get that? Certainly Chinese is not Pakistan’s lover, but saying we don’t like them is just out of blue. We have a mutually beneficial relationship, that is more than enough for both sides.

That way why is it easy to make PRC think of abandoning Pakistan and also the reality that Pakistan will think why PRC wants to abandon it. To deviate that PRC will only announce and make Pakistan feel like you say "emotional beliefs" that they are Iron brothers, sky high, water deep and Yahya Khan ... that is the ground reality.

The ground reality is—India is far more bigger power that Pakistan can handle with alone; she is also too big that Chinese can ignore. So, as long as India stays strong, we are good.

Pakistan is not a bunch of idiots that PRC is making them out to be. PRC knows it has (many different types of) restive characters on the far west.

Well, it seems that you are the only one thinks they are idiots who can’t take care of their own interest properly.

Another funny thing is that PRC people and interlocutors are able to talk with sense and even touch emotional chords. Try doing that with a angry Pakistan. Pakistan is not a Myanmar.

The real funny thing is you just keep thinking that there should be zero problem in a good relationship. But that is not the case. There is always problems and even dispute in a relationship. As long as both sides have the patience to solve the problems through negotiation, we are fine.

I add a small passage here on India (i leave the ground reality and emotional beliefs for later) ***** there have been clear instances where the message has been that we want Pakistan to continue and have no ill to the Pakistan people. Shimla Agreement is one. There are other at least two big examples. Another will be when there is India vs PRC investment and competition inside Pakistan. Will Pakistan have the strength and will power to be ordinary.


Please go ahead with Pakistan. Please do not disappoint Pakistan. PRC is the favorites there is no pressure.


"Pakis ought to demand better terms and benefits in terms of the service they are providing and have provided to PRC some will say. One might say that this service will be in perpetuity and everyone knows when Pakis feel and react when they are not given enough respect and terms according to what they deserve which some will say is justified according to their status."

Once again, please don’t treat Pakistanis as kid. They are adults with enough intelligence to take care of themselves.

Does PRC want such a Perpetuity. Will PRC be afraid of the angry Pakistan and Pakistan will demand more and more. But there is talk of abandoning it !! PRC is pragmatic and knows that and that is one good thing which I am sure is taken into account and they will be able to convince the Pakistan people of not making it "happy" and reasons why.

Can you please provide a source to back up that there is a talk among Chinese of abandoning Pakistan? From an Indian newspaper? At least I didn’t find in Chinese newspaper.

I am sure PRC interlocutors that manage the PRC policy that are pragmatic start analysis from ground reality instead of emotional beliefs. PRC become a reason for Pakistan and India closeness (dont be surprised to hear this more and more). In fact PRC will try and say that themselves but Pakistan will read through it this time.


-----> The physical connection of Pakistan is through a small passage way on the furthest of the furthest far west of PRC.


-----> PRC leaders would like PRC not to be bothered with such second-rate thinking (that takes up unnecessary energy and struggle that is injurious to its health) and would prefer a more advanced coordination and complexion that is develop on the PRC nation.


The above is all a emotional belief.

Yes, tell that to any Pakistan member in this forum.

 

[bose]

China will not disappoint Pakistan nor will Pakistan do so to China.

How many vetos has the US cast for Israel in UN? Last time checked ~ 32 times. Why could the US win over so many allies worldwide as a sole surperpower? It's a proven track record of backing buddies in times of need.

That's indeed a friendship higher than Himalayas China and Pakistan shall model ours on.



~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

China did disappointed Pakistan in 1971 when Pakistan was divvied into two countries... China did not come to Pakistan's rescue ... China along with USA did made some noises along the border then that all ...

 

[Compersion]

To equate Pakistan to Israel and wider relations is wide of the mark. Israel quantifies a much more dynamic and even relationship and contribution and reasons for which are generational. The Vetos of USA and PRC comparison is wide of the mark. How many Vetos has PRC made after 1975 when it got its seat on the UNSC. Was the resolution started in this thread done in the UNSC. Look at the breadth and contours of PRC vetos. To say that the PRC vetos have exterior considerations and with a magnitude of analysis is a high standard. Also even in Vetos why PRC treat Pakistan like a junior when Pakistan have roughened hands.

The equation that it is in a Pakistan resolution where the terrorism focus is losing its interpretation in PRC but where the region and world and international customs is moving and have moved already. How many times has PRC vetos a resolution that talks about Terrorism (please dont use the word Pakistan).

I also look at what Pakistan establishment has done with its missiles. Pakistan range and direction of its missiles is limited by its own calculations not because of PRC and the PRC needs to understand eventually Pakistan will go on its own calculations but first Pakistan need to cross the threshold of being ordinary.

One can ask PRC will they assist Pakistan in increasing the range of its missiles to cover all of Israel (if they have not done already). Sure how else will they reach Andaman Islands !! Does PRC technical and capability also ensure Pakistan missiles fire in a 180 degree angle only. Can Pakistan missiles fire into PRC. Do Pakistan missiles self-destruct if they enter into PRC airspace.

I am sure the PRC people know already they must never say and ask the Pakistan people what they have done for PRC.

PRC please dont disappoint Pakistan.

 

[Compersion]

Investing $42b in Pakistan is more profitable than in North Korea. By building up infrastructure in Pakistan, Chinese can access the market of middle east, central asia and south asia. With North korea, there is no much economic return.

Thanks for replying also noticed how your posts changed. In chronological order.

- North Korea is a wonderful topic. Not enough it spoken about it to be frankly. It is being constricted, restrained and trapped by PRC. What PRC is doing in the region. To say Korea (both North and South) a area this is shorter distance from Shanghai to Japan is less profitable and measuring it to Pakistan and smaller market to Middle East is something new. Do goods from and to South Korea, Japan come through North Korea to PRC. The reason you will give is the same reason what Pakistan people will be given when they ask PRC why only :quite happy".

- Using Pakistan to access the market of middle east, central asia and south asia. What will be the goods exactly that will transverse through this much larger and greater to East Asia market trade route.

- I agree Pakistan is knowing what it is doing. Please dont think that Pakistan will only follow what PRC tells it to do.

- Best friend relationship. Is that like how Pakistan will react when PRC did to Russia in 1970s. I am sure PRC and Russia talk about what happened in a mature way and they must do it in Shanghai which has developed rapidly after 1970s. Is there another word for abandoning is it like you say "West doesn’t need Pakistan as much as before".

- Pakistan does not like being double crossed. Please give them credit and please do not treat them unequal to PRC and what they have done for PRC (even when PRC sit with Russia in Shanghai all the PRC position(s) today has Pakistan contribution).

- Making it a business deal with dispute resolution on business terms with Pakistan. I am sure Pakistan will ask why that is done now and not before. Is there a potential for dispute.

- Why termination. There is other terms like rescission, restitution, repudiation. There is also other resolutions. For example abandonment. And even competition and other suppliers.

- "Certainly Chinese is not Pakistan’s lover, but saying we don’t like them is just out of blue. We have a mutually beneficial relationship, that is more than enough for both sides." and "The real funny thing is you just keep thinking that there should be zero problem in a good relationship. But that is not the case. There is always problems and even dispute in a relationship. As long as both sides have the patience to solve the problems through negotiation, we are fine.

Like you would say that is for Pakistan to ask and understand what you say not me. Big words that jump out "Not Pakistans lover" and "Mutually beneficial relationship" and "There is always problems and even dispute in a relationship". What Pakistan did for PRC was nothing. Have said already that Pakistan knows when to ask it self. PRC knows how to use emotional chords when it suits them.

- "The ground reality is—India is far more bigger power that Pakistan can handle with alone; she is also too big that Chinese can ignore. So, as long as India stays strong, we are good."

Likewise the ground reality is - PRC is far bigger power to Pakistan and can handle with alone. She is also too big that Indan can ignore. So, as long as Communist Party of PRC and CPPCC stays strong, we are good.

- What i think about Pakistan is that it needs to cross that significant and important threshold of being ordinary. They are not idiots and kids like the way PRC treats them some will say by looking at how much Pakistan has done for PRC and got in return. Having Pakistan to be converted into a North Korea by PRC is not exactly what Pakistan people have in mind.

- There are sources where one talks about PRC abandoning Pakistan and doing more conclusively in the future. A simple source:

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20140908000062&cid=1101

(You mention Chinese)

- No need to tell the Pakistan. They will have to experience and learn on their own how to deal with PRC. It can be either in the process of them becoming ordinary if not opposite. Either way PRC already thinking to abandon and change its relationship with Pakistan.

I dont know why you are becoming defensive in abandoning Pakistan. Have you asked the people from PRC if they think it is good. Have you think if it will be good for PRC.

 

[Compersion]

China did disappointed Pakistan in 1971 when Pakistan was divvied into two countries... China did not come to Pakistan's rescue ... China along with USA did made some noises along the border then that all ...

Reminds me of a leader of the Pakistan if they sits inside PRC and is not comfortable and worry that their communication is being heard. PRC is supposed to be like home. Sure i will have to say now we dont have such a capability and also kindness and benevolence of PRC and relationship between PRC and India is not strong and will not be strong(er).

PRC was kind also generous during Kargil. Sure i will have to say now PRC does not observe international law and customs.

 

[no smoking]

Thanks for replying also noticed how your posts changed. In chronological order.


- North Korea is a wonderful topic. Not enough it spoken about it to be frankly. It is being constricted, restrained and trapped by PRC. What PRC is doing in the region. To say Korea (both North and South) a area this is shorter distance from Shanghai to Japan is less profitable and measuring it to Pakistan and smaller market to Middle East is something new. Do goods from and to South Korea, Japan come through North Korea to PRC. The reason you will give is the same reason what Pakistan people will be given when they ask PRC why only :quite happy".

No, there is sea lane between South Korea, China and Japan. We don’t need to send the goods through third country. Pakistan, however, can help reduce the time & cost of transportation between China and Middle east.

- Using Pakistan to access the market of middle east, central asia and south asia. What will be the goods exactly that will transverse through this much larger and greater to East Asia market trade route.

Everything! Machine, electronic, textile, the list can go on and on. This is the ideal market with huge population and very low level industries to compete.

- I agree Pakistan is knowing what it is doing. Please dont think that Pakistan will only follow what PRC tells it to do.


- Best friend relationship. Is that like how Pakistan will react when PRC did to Russia in 1970s. I am sure PRC and Russia talk about what happened in a mature way and they must do it in Shanghai which has developed rapidly after 1970s. Is there another word for abandoning is it like you say "West doesn’t need Pakistan as much as before".


- Pakistan does not like being double crossed. Please give them credit and please do not treat them unequal to PRC and what they have done for PRC (even when PRC sit with Russia in Shanghai all the PRC position(s) today has Pakistan contribution).


- Making it a business deal with dispute resolution on business terms with Pakistan. I am sure Pakistan will ask why that is done now and not before. Is there a potential for dispute.


- Why termination. There is other terms like rescission, restitution, repudiation. There is also other resolutions. For example abandonment. And even competition and other suppliers.


- "Certainly Chinese is not Pakistan’s lover, but saying we don’t like them is just out of blue. We have a mutually beneficial relationship, that is more than enough for both sides." and "The real funny thing is you just keep thinking that there should be zero problem in a good relationship. But that is not the case. There is always problems and even dispute in a relationship. As long as both sides have the patience to solve the problems through negotiation, we are fine.


Like you would say that is for Pakistan to ask and understand what you say not me. Big words that jump out "Not Pakistans lover" and "Mutually beneficial relationship" and "There is always problems and even dispute in a relationship". What Pakistan did for PRC was nothing. Have said already that Pakistan knows when to ask it self. PRC knows how to use emotional chords when it suits them.

Have you even give a thought about what I write? Please don’t repeat the same words again and again. Pakistan and China come together not because love (there is no love between countries). We become allies simply because we have a common rival – India. But now, both sides find more are to collaborate other than that. But there is one thing never change: neither side has done anything without being paid properly.


When you keep claiming that Pakistan was not treated well, can you give some example?

Likewise the ground reality is - PRC is far bigger power to Pakistan and can handle with alone. She is also too big that Indan can ignore. So, as long as Communist Party of PRC and CPPCC stays strong, we are good.

So, you are suggesting that Pakistan is seeking India’s help to resisting Chinese “invasion”? Are you serious?

- What i think about Pakistan is that it needs to cross that significant and important threshold of being ordinary. They are not idiots and kids like the way PRC treats them some will say by looking at how much Pakistan has done for PRC and got in return. Having Pakistan to be converted into a North Korea by PRC is not exactly what Pakistan people have in mind.

Yes, of course, India is the best “friend” of Pakistan.

- There are sources where one talks about PRC abandoning Pakistan and doing more conclusively in the future. A simple source:


http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20140908000062&cid=1101


(You mention Chinese)

Have you even read your own link? Where did it say that china is talking about “abandoning Pakistan”?

- No need to tell the Pakistan. They will have to experience and learn on their own how to deal with PRC. It can be either in the process of them becoming ordinary if not opposite. Either way PRC already thinking to abandon and change its relationship with Pakistan.


I dont know why you are becoming defensive in abandoning Pakistan. Have you asked the people from PRC if they think it is good. Have you think if it will be good for PRC.

Every Chinese I talk to think a good Sino-Pak relationship serves Chinese interest. No one, from ordinary Chinese to Chinese think tank, even have the idea of abandoning Pakistan. Please give me a reason that we should abandon Pakistan.

 

[Compersion]

No, there is sea lane between South Korea, China and Japan. We don’t need to send the goods through third country. Pakistan, however, can help reduce the time & cost of transportation between China and Middle east.

Good to hear from you and wishing you are doing well in good weather. On topic of weather. It reminds me what happens when there is varied weather. You know one can think of the words winters, heavy rains and the word practicality comes into play. For example if a idea, plan and method is likely to succeed and be effective in real circumstances; is it feasible. One can also think about earthquakes. One can also think about small passageway and restrictions. Please dont blame India for weather and natural calamities and say that is the reason why Pakistan and PRC relationship keeps on being "quite happy".

Had to say a little about North Korea. You use the words "direct" which is fascinating. Would PRC object if South Korea and Japan wanted direct transit route through North Korea into and from PRC. Would PRC object if South K and Japanese industries move from PRC into North Korea (cheap disciplined labour and land and closer proximity - one reason why they are in PRC in first place and at this moment). What is the status on PRC wanting South and North Korea unification.

You mean to say that Pakistan will be used to be a "transit" to Middle east. It is not much better and more practical to use Myanmar which is more closer to the PRC mainland which better terrain and since there is a sea between Pakistan and Middle East why not make it done through more practical areas. Logic and reasonableness cannot be thought by Pakistan people you will say.

Pakistan will be "used" for PRC to access markets and there are "low level expertise" to compete. Why are you labeling Pakistan people "low level expertise". Are PRC people "high level expertise" compared to "low level expertise" of Pakistan people.

And only using your words "there is no love between countries" and it is because of India. Pakistan people being used against India has a much larger value to what PRC is availing and distributing and Pakistan people and leaders are knowing that.

Wont repeat what said earlier (but would add that here).

Q. So, you are suggesting that Pakistan is seeking India’s help to resisting Chinese “invasion”? Are you serious?

Not now. Pakistan has to still cross that threshold of becoming ordinary. Do you think that Pakistan is okay to have "Military subversive relationship" with a hint and chance of "low level trade". Pakistan does not want to be a North Korea.

You mention "Yes, of course, India is the best “friend” of Pakistan."

There is already a example of how PRC behaved and is behaving with Russia. There is also example of India and PRC - do we have to say that the relationship has no kindness and benevolence of PRC and the relationship between PRC and India is not strong and will not be strong(er). Pakistan does not like being double crossed and treated badly.

Some might say with USA the PRC has US$ treasuries. What does Pakistan have with PRC. -----> India. Please do not disrespect your own people. Did Pakistan make PRC stronger because of India ??

"We become allies simply because we have a common rival – India &%1. But now, both sides find more are to collaborate other than that. But there is one thing never change: neither side has done anything without being paid properly."

How has Pakistan paid properly. When PRC leaders speak in post 1970s Shanghai to Russia leaders the PRC leaders don't start their conversation by thanking and being grateful for Pakistan people and leaders. Also PRC people refuse to hang Yahya Khan picture on their walls ... (where is India in this picture)

I had read the Chinese link. Did you.

Q. Please give me a reason that we should abandon Pakistan.

-----> The physical connection of Pakistan is through a small passage way on the furthest of the furthest far west of PRC. (One can also add weather and other variables here).

-----> PRC leaders would like PRC not to be bothered with such second-rate thinking (that takes up unnecessary energy and struggle that is injurious to its health) and would prefer a more advanced coordination and complexion that is develop on the PRC nation.

------> PRC and India relationship. No shame about it.

What is the cost of abandoning Pakistan for PRC. Any figure above 0 (zero) is in the affirmative that PRC will abandon Pakistan. The above is all a emotional belief.

&%1: A small footnote:
India is not a mute observer.

 

[Compersion]

@no smoking

To help alleviate the conversation.

Q. Why did Pakistan make PRC strong(er).

Q. How much commission is Pakistan given for every Made In PRC product made after 1970s

Q. How much commission is Pakistan given for the progress and development PRC has made after 1970s. Including UNSC seat.

Is there a expiry date. Was there even a start date. Was it because of India ??

Is it such a emotional story where Pakistan helped PRC not because of India but because of bonafide reasons and good intent and because Pakistan wanted PRC to grow strong(er). And it happened and Pakistan played a major role and Pakistan emboldened PRC and gave it a easy walkover (this is linked to later and earlier wish you understand).

It really hits the emotional chord (see the tears flow) that Pakistan helped PRC and when they see pictures of Shanghai and PRC leaders being G2 and sometimes looking down on Russia and Russian people and sometimes even looking at same level to Russia and Russian people and infrastructure developments the Pakistan people and leaders dont think they had any contribution and role at all and any part because it was only PRC credit and hard work and because of PRC. Where is India in this emotional picture - a bit like how PRC has rewarded Pakistan for this - not much. Rewarding Pakistan because of India is different and again PRC is benefiting more compared to Pakistan (another emotional tears type movie).

The reason why Yahya Khan picture is not hanging on every wall in PRC is unknown.

But ...

I am sure the PRC people know already they must never say and ask the Pakistan people what they have done for PRC.

PRC please dont disappoint Pakistan.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And please do not disrespect your own people. Did Pakistan make PRC stronger because of India ??

This works the other way where PRC will say NO. The PRC became strong on its OWN like it has been said emboldened itself and no easy walkover. Pakistan had NO role and Pakistan did nothing to make PRC stronger.

Pakistan please only think about India and stick to 180 degrees a bit like its missiles that cannot enter PRC air space and go beyond a certain range.


Are you sure --------------> "No one, from ordinary Chinese to Chinese think tank, even have the idea of abandoning Pakistan."

There is no shame about it.

 

[no smoking]

Please dont blame India for weather and natural calamities and say that is the reason why Pakistan and PRC relationship keeps on being "quite happy".

Well, no one is blaming India for good Sino-Pak relationship. We thank you for your role.

Had to say a little about North Korea. You use the words "direct" which is fascinating. Would PRC object if South Korea and Japan wanted direct transit route through North Korea into and from PRC.

You should ask if South Korean and Japanese are stupid enough to direct transit route through North korea so they can increase their own costs by paying taxes and duties to North Korea.

Would PRC object if South K and Japanese industries move from PRC into North Korea (cheap disciplined labour and land and closer proximity - one reason why they are in PRC in first place and at this moment). What is the status on PRC wanting South and North Korea unification.

That is the reason only valid 20 years. Today, the reason is you are producing LOCALLY for a market of 1.3 billions consumes. Yes, they can move out without PRC permission. But they will lose their number 1 market. And the beauty of this is you have to import lots of components and materials from PRC for your factories in north korea.

You mean to say that Pakistan will be used to be a "transit" to Middle east. It is not much better and more practical to use Myanmar which is more closer to the PRC mainland which better terrain and since there is a sea between Pakistan and Middle East why not make it done through more practical areas. Logic and reasonableness cannot be thought by Pakistan people you will say.

No, it is a good route which avoid the influence of India and US navy.

And it is a even better route because it will bring development into Xinjiang.

Pakistan will be "used" for PRC to access markets and there are "low level expertise" to compete. Why are you labeling Pakistan people "low level expertise". Are PRC people "high level expertise" compared to "low level expertise" of Pakistan people.

Isn't that a fact that Pakistan is lagging behind China on industrial production?

Not now. Pakistan has to still cross that threshold of becoming ordinary. Do you think that Pakistan is okay to have "Military subversive relationship" with a hint and chance of "low level trade". Pakistan does not want to be a North Korea.

Wow, what makes you think that Pakistan is not “ordinary” now?

And what makes you think that China is the one making north korea into today’s “North Korea”?

There is already a example of how PRC behaved and is behaving with Russia.

What PRC behaved with Russia?

There is also example of India and PRC - do we have to say that the relationship has no kindness and benevolence of PRC and the relationship between PRC and India is not strong and will not be strong(er). Pakistan does not like being double crossed and treated badly.

Or do we have to say that the relationship has no kindness and benevolence of India?

Some might say with USA the PRC has US$ treasuries. What does Pakistan have with PRC. -----> India. Please do not disrespect your own people. Did Pakistan make PRC stronger because of India ??

What does Pakistan have with India? Oh, right, 3 wars, tens thousands lives killed by Indian.

How has Pakistan paid properly. When PRC leaders speak in post 1970s Shanghai to Russia leaders the PRC leaders don't start their conversation by thanking and being grateful for Pakistan people and leaders. Also PRC people refuse to hang Yahya Khan picture on their walls ... (where is India in this picture)

What Yahya Khan? When did Pakistan ask Chinese to hang that? Why Pakistan asked Chinese a picture of person they never knew about? Are you high?

I had read the Chinese link. Did you.

Did you? Show me the sentence about “abandoning Pakistan”.

-----> The physical connection of Pakistan is through a small passage way on the furthest of the furthest far west of PRC. (One can also add weather and other variables here).

So what?

-----> PRC leaders would like PRC not to be bothered with such second-rate thinking (that takes up unnecessary energy and struggle that is injurious to its health) and would prefer a more advanced coordination and complexion that is develop on the PRC nation.

Who told you that? These PRC leaders come up with these so called “second-rate thinking” and pouring billions of dollars to build it.

------> PRC and India relationship. No shame about it.

So, did India have enough leverage to ask China to abandon Pakistan?

What is the cost of abandoning Pakistan for PRC. Any figure above 0 (zero) is in the affirmative that PRC will abandon Pakistan. The above is all a emotional belief.

What the cost? Billions dollars additional cost of deploying military forces in Tibet; billions of dollars military exportation to Pakistan; potential hundreds billions of dollars exportation market;

India is not a mute observer.

Who cares?