China signs $35 bn deal with Pak . EDIT Najam Sethi: China signed deals worth 0.41bn$

[sabertooth]

lets face it. china has the balls to go ahead and court pakistan we are scared to do this, high time we start raising the
Tibet issue with them and start having closer defence relations with Taiwan and Japan, that will give those chinese a taste of their own medicine

 

[Pandora]

you give them 35billion or 35 trillion dollar !! Pakistan will be always pakistan . No change in policy,same haterd heart as they were 60yearz ago and same islamik mentality like they are guardian of all islam. Aint USA GAVE THEM 20BILLION DOLLAR AS AID ?? What they did ?beside increasing defence budget and funding militants

 

[divya]

If i am not wrong then this money is not to be given to pakistan in the form of cash but they are actually going to invest into development civilian projects directly. So their is a very low chance of getting them diverted for funding anti-India activities. The aid in the form of cash or money like which US gives is more dangerous for us then the actual investments into infrastructures.

 

[chex3009]

China counters U.S. criticism of Pakistan as PM ends visit

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao lauded on Sunday Pakistan's efforts to battle al Qaeda, just days after the United States said its ally could do more to crack down on militants, especially along the Afghan border.
Wen's comments, made in a speech before parliament, appear part of China's strategy to lend support to old friend Pakistan, often criticised by the United States and many in the West as an unreliable, but necessary, ally in the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan.
"Strengthening and promoting strategic, brotherly relations is our joint strategic choice and they are in the interests of two countries and their people," Wen said, as he wrapped up a three-day visit to Pakistan.
Chinese leaders applaud Pakistan's efforts to fight al Qaeda -led terrorism, he added, urging the international community to "endose and support" them.
Pakistan's porous border with Afghanistan is seen as a haven for militants and U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said on Thursday that it needed to do more to control the flow of extremists, which a U.S. review of the Afghan war said was the main obstacle to ending the conflict.
While boosting trade and investment has been the main focus of Wen's visit -- the first in five years by a Chinese premier -- analysts say the trip is about more than money.
"It's a clear signal of China's growing, assertive diplomacy," said independent analyst Hamayoun Khan.
"They (China) do not want Pakistan to be entirely dependent on the United States and the International Monetary Fund, and then get dictation from them," Khan said.
"China's massive investment in this time proves two things. One is that China is a genuine ally of Pakistan, and second, it is a clear signal to the U.S. that if the U.S. supports India against China, China will support Pakistan."
During the visit, which followed a three-day trip to India, the two countries signed commercial and trade deals worth at least $25 billion.
By comparison, Wen signed $16 billion in deals in India before arriving in Islamabad on Friday.
Analysts say China is investing in Pakistan to such a large degree for two reasons: because it sees the country as a genuine friend, and because it irks India.
Sino-Indian relations have been dogged by long-standing border disputes, which led to a war nearly four decades ago. Since then, though, the world's two fastest-growing big economies have forged a major trade relationship over the years.
China is the main supplier of defence and military hardware to Pakistan. China has also helped Pakistan to build its main nuclear power generation facility and is helping build another one.
Pakistani diplomats like to refer to China as an "all-weather friend", whose needs -- strategic and economic -- fit in with what Pakistan wants and has to offer.
China wants to use Pakistan as a gateway to the Muslim world and as a new Silk Road for China's energy-hungry interior, as well as a balance against India's military rise.
Pakistan, in turn, plans to further rely on China for the bulk of its weapon systems, as a major investor for its ports and roads, and as a counterweight to American demands and conditions in the fight against Islamist militancy.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/china-counters-u-criticism-pakistan-pm-ends-visit-20101219-010708-952.html

 

[mech-e]

you give them 35billion or 35 trillion dollar !! Pakistan will be always pakistan . No change in policy,same haterd heart as they were 60yearz ago and same islamik mentality like they are guardian of all islam. Aint USA GAVE THEM 20BILLION DOLLAR AS AID ?? What they did ?beside increasing defence budget and funding militants

do you know where india stand, if u come to pakistan, you will pakistan much more developed than india...

pakistan can do what ever it wants with the money, its not aid money, its pakistan;s hard earned money in the war on terror, if US aid is so easy to by then ask them too, israel gets a lot more aid than pakistan ever could..

 

[mech-e]

you give them 35billion or 35 trillion dollar !! Pakistan will be always pakistan . No change in policy,same haterd heart as they were 60yearz ago and same islamik mentality like they are guardian of all islam. Aint USA GAVE THEM 20BILLION DOLLAR AS AID ?? What they did ?beside increasing defence budget and funding militants

what about trillion dollar american investment?????????????????? know dont get jealous that sino pak friend ship is not sort of friendship india can ever afford??

do you know where india stand, if u come to pakistan, you will pakistan much more developed than india...

pakistan can do what ever it wants with the money, its not aid money, its pakistan;s hard earned money in the war on terror, if US aid is so easy to come by then ask them too, israel gets a lot more aid than pakistan ever could.. ask israel part of US aid to for your impoverished generation

 

[divya]

what about trillion dollar american investment?????????????????? know dont get jealous that sino pak friend ship is not sort of friendship india can ever afford??

do you know where india stand, if u come to pakistan, you will pakistan much more developed than india...

pakistan can do what ever it wants with the money, its not aid money, its pakistan;s hard earned money in the war on terror, if US aid is so easy to come by then ask them too, israel gets a lot more aid than pakistan ever could.. ask israel part of US aid to for your impoverished generation

Ok buddy forget India compare the GDP of Maharastra(single state of India) with the GDP of your whole country. Hope it will be eye opener for you.

 

[Oracle]

do you know where india stand, if u come to pakistan, you will pakistan much more developed than india...

Developed in which context? Producing 1000s of graduate Jihadists? Or distorting the thinking of new born kids with hate India filled sermons in Madrassas as well as text books? A country where international terrorists share dias with the elected officials. Shame!

pakistan can do what ever it wants with the money, its not aid money, its pakistan;s hard earned money in the war on terror, if US aid is so easy to by then ask them too, israel gets a lot more aid than pakistan ever could..

Israel gets military aid, which it pays back. Now, give me one source which says Pakistan has paid back X amount of Civilian or Military aid back to the US of A.

While for a country in chaos, I mean Pakistan, you people are lucky Uncle Sam's booty has not led to the breaking up of your country. However, do you not think as ordinary citizens you guys should do more to form public opinion as where Pakistan is today and where it will be after a couple of years?

 

[divya]

Developed in which context? Producing 1000s of graduate Jihadists? Or distorting the thinking of new born kids with hate India filled sermons in Madrassas as well as text books? A country where international terrorists share dias with the elected officials. Shame!


Israel gets military aid, which it pays back. Now, give me one source which says Pakistan has paid back X amount of Civilian or Military aid back to the US of A.

While for a country in chaos, I mean Pakistan, you people are lucky Uncle Sam's booty has not led to the breaking up of your country. However, do you not think as ordinary citizens you guys should do more to form public opinion as where Pakistan is today and where it will be after a couple of years?

Well oracle there is no point of talking this because already the GDP of Pakistan is less than the GDP of Maharashtra. So the hogwash of India being poor is fed to people of Pakistan just for the sake of justifying the existance of Pakistan.

 

[Oracle]

/\/\/\ Yes, but Pakistanis find one liners difficult to catch, and even if they catch find it even more difficult to comprehend. So, my summary of 3 para.

 

[mech-e]

Ok buddy forget India compare the GDP of Maharastra(single state of India) with the GDP of your whole country. Hope it will be eye opener for you.

ok buddy, compare the size of your impoverished maharashtra to our pakistan, second, what is the population of your maharashtra???, pakistan is much better of country like india, who with all us aids, being raped one the same time by russia and USA and enjoying a peace time as compared to pakistan cant even manage its economy properly..

how many friends do you have aside uncle sam his puppies and russia???

if you really wanna compare you status then why not compare a billion population with another billion population, now china is the country which has nearly the same population as compared to india, but look at china, and then look at india, after the comparison i would only say that china is a king kong and india is mere excretion of a mighty king kong, you cant be any way compared to china at all...

 

[LurkerBaba]

ok buddy, compare the size of your impoverished maharashtra to our pakistan

307,713 km Maharastra

796,095 km Pakistan

, second, what is the population of your maharashtra??

90million Maharashtra

170million Pakistan

btw Maharastra accounts for 12.8% of India's GDP (12.8% of $1.37 Trillion = $176billion)
GDP of Pakistan =$176Billion

Yes, you got owned :happy_2:

how many friends do you have aside uncle sam his puppies and russia???

We have partners not 'friends'. Oh and Uncle Sam is your master (you're his puppy, once he pulls his IMF/World bank leach you're gonna woof as always) economically you'll be a vassal state of China.

if you really wanna compare you status then why not compare a billion population with another billion population, now china is the country which has nearly the same population as compared to india, but look at china, and then look at india, after the comparison i would only say that china is a king kong and india is mere excretion of a mighty king kong, you cant be any way compared to china at all...

Again bring in China to hide your failures, this is what happens in most Pakistani fora, they start bringing in China or if that fails they go all the wayback to Muhammaded Bin Qasim.


(Serioulsy mods I don't want DFI to become PDF please do the needful)

 

[Bangalorean]

ok buddy, compare the size of your impoverished maharashtra to our pakistan, second, what is the population of your maharashtra???, pakistan is much better of country like india, who with all us aids, being raped one the same time by russia and USA and enjoying a peace time as compared to pakistan cant even manage its economy properly..

how many friends do you have aside uncle sam his puppies and russia???

if you really wanna compare you status then why not compare a billion population with another billion population, now china is the country which has nearly the same population as compared to india, but look at china, and then look at india, after the comparison i would only say that china is a king kong and india is mere excretion of a mighty king kong, you cant be any way compared to china at all...

Read the comment by lurker baba carefully. Madarssa educated brainwashed teenagers from Pakistan cannot do basic mathematics. You just proved it. So let me reiterate: Pakistan has double the population of Maharashtra, while the GDP of both entities is the same. Work that out, can you? I hope they teach at least basic arithmetic in Madrassas!

Typical Pakistani, firing off China's back. Achieve something yourselves, you shameless people!

Please understand, no one will respect your nation as long as you keep begging and surviving on aid. Even though China and India have some animosity, Indians respect China for some of their achievements which cannot be denied. Pakistan, on the other hand, gets only contempt from the world. And your attempts to compare yourself to India and arguing about Pakistan being a 'better country' are causing further degradation in your self respect, because statistics exist for everything.

 

[warriorextreme]

i read about bomb blasts in pakistan everyday almost..
it means you harm yourselves.

harm us and you will never ever live in peace

which means you yourselves wont live in peace ..
lol

 

[The Messiah]

if you really wanna compare you status then why not compare a billion population with another billion population, now china is the country which has nearly the same population as compared to india, but look at china, and then look at india, after the comparison i would only say that china is a king kong and india is mere excretion of a mighty king kong, you cant be any way compared to china at all...

are you defending pakistan or china ?

or are you so ashamed of being a pakistani that you point to others or maybe you couldn't find any achievements of pakistan.

have some shame even bangladesh currency is stronger than yours :emot15:

 

[death.by.chocolate]

Mech-e and others have to recognize that to China Pakistan is no different than Sudan or any other country they exploit by throwing a few dollars around.
You'd do well to research how much of the 20 Billion Dollars China promised to Pakistan in the first half of the last decade was actually received by Pakistan.
Next, closely examine Chinese investments in Pakistan starting with Saindak and you will conclude as I have that Pakistan is being systematically exploited by China.

China will be Pakistan's friend forever and until the last nugget of mineral wealth has been mined and dispatched to fuel Chinese growth.

China digs Pakistan into a hole
By Syed Fazl-e-Haider

QUETTA, Balochistan - The Rs18 billion (US$297 million) Saindak copper-gold project in the Pakistani province of Balochistan has been run by a Chinese contractor on a 10-year lease without any independent monitoring for the past three years.

Higher-than-anticipated production of blister copper at the site in the Chaghi district may reduce the estimated 19-year life of the mine. If the rate of mining continues unchecked, the Chinese contractors will exploit all the resource within the 10-year lease



period, leaving no copper or gold for Pakistan to mine from
Saindak after the lease contract comes to an end.

Is the project really yielding a prudent return to Pakistan in the absence of any monitoring mechanism? Technical calculations and financial data need to be maintained about the project's return in terms of production and metal sales. Only on the basis of these data can one decide who is the real beneficiary of the Saindak project, China or Pakistan. Yet the Pakistani government has failed to find an independent monitor.

According to best estimates before the lease was signed, Pakistan should have nine more years for mining copper and gold from the Saindak project after the Chinese hand it back. But if there is nothing left to mine, Pakistan will be the ultimate loser.

The Saindak project was based on estimated ore reserves of 412 million tonnes containing on average 0.5 gram of gold per tonne and 1.5 grams of silver per tonne. The mine is reported to have produced about 50,000 tonnes since October 2003. According to official estimates, the project has the capacity to produce 15,800 tonnes of blister copper annually, containing 1.5 tonnes of gold and 2.8 tonnes of silver. The reported production results, however, have generally remained on average more than 2,000 tonnes per month, which means that more than production of 24,000 tonnes per year has been taking place.

The discovery of copper deposits at Saindak was made in the 1970s in collaboration with a Chinese engineering firm. The Saindak copper-gold project was set up by Saindak Metals Ltd (SML), a company wholly owned by the government of Pakistan, by the end of 1995 at a cost of Rs13.5 billion.

It was financed through Pakistani investment and guaranteed borrowings. The project was put on trial production during the period from August 1995 to January 1996, and it achieved the designed production capacity and quality. It produced 1,541 tonnes of blister copper containing 12 kilograms of gold and 198kg of silver during trial operations, which sere sold in the international market at a price of Rs280 million. The project was then shut down in February 1996 because of a lack of working capital.

The Bank of America and ABN Amro had agreed to lend Rs15 billion as working capital against guarantees of Islamabad. The two banks, however, backed out of their commitment because of the economic sanctions that were imposed against Pakistan after its May 1998 nuclear tests. This once again threw the project into abeyance. Then the Chinese contractors who had been involved with the project since its inception offered to take over the project's management. The Chinese proposals injected new life into the long-neglected project.

About Rs1.3 billion was put into the project in the late 1990s under the military government of President General Pervez Musharraf to revive the mine and the operation was leased to the Chinese company Metallurgical Construction Corp (MCC) for 10 years in September 2002. Pakistan and China signed a formal contract worth $350 million for development of Saindak copper/gold project. Under the lease agreement, MCC was to run the project on an annual rent of $500,000 plus a 50% share of copper sales to the Pakistani government.

It is primarily a fault on the part of those drafting the lease contract with MCC that they neglected to identify and discuss the issues relating to excessive mining or a monitoring mechanism to check and evaluate the production from Saindak. A technical body for monitoring and evaluation of the production and export of copper, gold and silver at the Saindak project should have been constituted before the copper and gold assets were handed over to Chinese.

An effort was reportedly made in 2004 to appoint a technical firm for this purpose, but only a single non-responsive bid was received and the Pakistani government had to cancel the bidding results. Officials say that the poor response for a monitoring contract was due to a lack of base-metal analyzing technology in the country. The option of engaging some international firm for the scheme was not considered because of high costs.

Bids were reportedly invited from financial institutions to undertake technical and financial monitoring of the project, which was not practical because such institutions did not have the capacity to monitor a highly technical project such as Saindak for a period of 10 years, and hence technical firms failed to meet the bid criteria. At present, two non-executive directors of the Saindak board are responsible for monitoring activities. As they are based in Islamabad, however, it is not practical for them to monitor the project.

The Chinese, simultaneously the producers and buyers of Saindak copper, are pioneers in transferring technology in metal mining, mainly in copper. They face few problems since they built the whole plant. They are committed to train Pakistanis by offering them on-the-job training facilities. The Chinese companies prefer to import copper from Chaghi, which is currently meeting the Chinese demand.

Since August 2003, a subsidiary of MCC has been operating in the Saindak project, with an initial investment of $26 million, and it had produced 18,000 tonnes of blister copper by September 2004. Such a high rate of production may end the life of the mine, previously estimated at 19 years, before the 10-year lease of the Chinese firm expires if excessive mining goes unchecked.

China's demand for copper has increased greatly because of rapid economic development and big expansion of infrastructure construction. According to one estimate, China's appetite in the past decade grew by more than 9% annually. In 2003, China consumed 2.5 million tonnes of copper, accounting for 16.5% of the world's total, ranking second after the United States. It was because of the strong demand from China that Chile's copper-export income doubled in October 2004 from the same month in 2003 to $1.4 billion.

Today China is a big market for Pakistani copper. The Saindak project produced about $70 million worth of copper during the last financial year and contributed about $10 million to Islamabad in export and royalty earnings. It was earlier estimated that the project would generate annual revenue of about $65 million. Copper exports from Saindak began in 2004 when Pakistan exported copper worth more than $30 million to China during four months, from July to October.

Pakistan is also bearing the environmental costs of the projects, as the production of copper is a long and dangerous process. The smelting of the copper ore emits arsenic and carbon monoxide, which pollutes the air and water near the mines. The copper is heated at high temperatures several times before the metal is ready for export. The impact of copper production on the country's environment is bound to grow at an alarming rate in the next seven years of the lease contract. Most threatened is the atmosphere in the immediate vicinity of the copper mine.

 

[Tshering22]

This shouldn't come as a surprise to fellow Indians here because as one takes a deep look into the Chinese strategy to dominance in Asia and perhaps around the world, one can clearly observe a pattern: creating, serenading and provoking unstable, rogue regimes around itself as a virtual shield against her virtual competitors in all field. We need not go very deep into the theoretical aspect here if we just take a look at east Asia. Throughout history, Japan has been the fiercest competitor against China in terms of civilization, military, economy, technology and virtually any platform. And to a large extent, they have succeeded in their dominance for the previous century quite well. After the downfall of the Imperial Japanese, China which had been brutalized by the Imperial order of Japan, thought of a new mantra that could potentially add Soviet rejects or leftovers as their potential future allies. A smart but risky investment which tell date has succeeded.

North Korea was propped up to counter Japanese and the Westernized and democratic South Koreans and ultimately the United States from creating mini-itselfs according to Communist mentality. However, Sino-Soviet split seemed to cause a rift in the Communist thinking and shifting of alliances which further was complicated during the collapse of Soviet Union. Left with no other alternative, North Korean regime approached a still communist China to do anything to save its tyrannical regime.

Pakistan through the 90s was another golden opportunity for CCP to invest in due to its exposed competition potential that Chinese leaders expected from India. This in turn began to get better and better for Chinese as Pakistan's Islamist mentality increased over time and fueled by US-betrayal post Afghan war, a gradual and obvious shift towards Chinese. Joint military ventures and cooperation against a common enemy was always the core reason to bind these totally different countries together. As US started viewing India as a potential future trading and strategic partner due to its economic rise and democratic structure, Pakistan suddenly began to appear as a second-class ally. Despite giving all sorts of honorary titles, US made sure that Pakistan was an ally that could be "controlled"; which further drove the conspiracy-vulnerable Pakistanis into the arms of paranoia and apprehension, thus making them move towards China all the more.

And today, we can see the result of it. As Pakistan's till now US-Managed economy begins to shake and crumble, China sees the replacement opportunity for the post that US once took. An added advantage for Chinese here is that this new shaky and weak "ally" shares the same regional enemy that she herself does and is attached to the same threat perception/regional competitor with an inherent hatred for her.

Nothing could be more conducive for China than a conspiracy-obsessed-India-hating Pakistan who's economic foundations have been shaken and whose very fabric of national structure has began to see tears and signs of wearing out; a perfect chance to be the "hero" and ensure an unwavering loyalty for itself in the future. The hate which only gets bigger by the day as Pakistan sees its arch-enemy and "anti-matter" grow by the day while it in itself descending into chaos, terrorism, instability, mismanagement, corruption, joblessness, radicalism and almost every level of social and national level problems a country can imagine.

Same thing goes well in east Asia for the CCP to ensure that the Kim Jong regime stays strong and keep fueling and feeding the "imperialist invaders" theory to the regime to ensure that they have another arm to keep China's eastern and western competitors out. And this investment has gone so deep right now that Chinese have gone to extent to bless these regimes with the most riskiest of all decisions that even the United States and Soviet Union had not conceptualized during their hay days: nuclear weaponizing them.

It is a smart investment in short term but Chinese should realize that both Pakistan and North Korea are 2 totally different regimes and nations that have been woven out of completely different ideologies, mentality and virtually alien-to-each-other fabrics. North Korea, while has steeped into the extreme interpretations of Leninist and Stalinism combined with ancient Korean interpretations to make people believe of their ruler as God's blessing, while Pakistan is a nation woven from the fabric of communal hate, denial and disgust of everything that their predecessors' ancestry had to do with their current faith; the single core root of their existence to be everything that India's ancient roots and way of life are not.

It is unfortunate that Chinese have chosen to break a bond of friendship and brotherhood with a 2,000-year-old friend all for this abomination of medieval-era Islamic quasi-theocratic state. The ruling government of China thought it has evaded all the mistakes that other Communist regimes worldwide have made through stern observation; except that it made one mistake that was done by all others as well: it has tried to undo China's ancient past with its own version of it and no matter what the short term benefits of it may seem visible for now, the ultimate reality shall come to it some day. There is no present without past and hence no future at all.

 

[no smoking]

What makes me laugh is that indians always feel they are the victims in this great game.

But the fact is they are playing the same dirty game as any one else. Look at india's neighbour, you can find india's finger print in every case, from Nepal to Sri lanka, from China's Tibet to Pak.

 

[ganesh177]

US killed more than 60 in drone attacks in last 4 days. And pakistan is escorting chinese premier with JF-17 ?
That talks a lot about morals of this shameless country.

 

[divya]

ok buddy, compare the size of your impoverished maharashtra to our pakistan, second, what is the population of your maharashtra???, pakistan is much better of country like india, who with all us aids, being raped one the same time by russia and USA and enjoying a peace time as compared to pakistan cant even manage its economy properly..

how many friends do you have aside uncle sam his puppies and russia???

if you really wanna compare you status then why not compare a billion population with another billion population, now china is the country which has nearly the same population as compared to india, but look at china, and then look at india, after the comparison i would only say that china is a king kong and india is mere excretion of a mighty king kong, you cant be any way compared to china at all...

Population of maharastra : 96,752,247 which is still less than your population
area 307713 km2 and your area is 796,095 km2

still wanna compare.

If you want us to compare with china and blah blah then first you need to accept that you are noone in comparison to us. if you still wanna compare then compare first with one of our states before ranting.