Dear Fellow,Living in pollution is not caused by poverty, it is caused by poor government policies. When pollution destroys 1 million hectares arable land per year, creates air you can't breath, and pollutes most of your water supplies this is not aiding human rights, this is destroying it.
Pollution in the excessive levels China produces, is caused by irresponsible and wreckless profiteering. There is a way to develop your country without destroying it and the people are rising up to tell the CCP that fact. Numerous incidents of peasants storming factories has occurred. Every developed nation has had this period in history where the people have confronted polluters and triumphed with liberal reforms through elected governments. Problem with CCP is they don't take a balanced approach and don't listen, it is growth or bust. Pollution doesn't equal progress, it represents greed. Welcome to Chinese mantra.Pollution DO improve Chinese human rights! Because pollution is caused by industry. Industry brings lots of job. Can you enjoy any of your NOBLE human rights if you are jobless? Pollution also means prosperity. Do you see any pollution in Africa? Japan was as polluted as China in 1970s. So enjoy your jobless poverty-stricken fresh air!
Well, I have different point. When a developing country starts its industrilization, what the most it has is untrained work force with no skill. It is unlikly to expect everyone to work in the high-tech industry. You can choose to be like india: only focus on the clean industries while leaving hundreds of millions people waiting outside for another 2 decades, or you have to welcome every opportunities to bring employement to your people. As an old saying: beggar doesn't have lots choices.Pollution in the excessive levels China produces, is caused by irresponsible and wreckless profiteering. There is a way to develop your country without destroying it and the people are rising up to tell the CCP that fact. Numerous incidents of peasants storming factories has occurred. Every developed nation has had this period in history where the people have confronted polluters and triumphed with liberal reforms through elected governments. Problem with CCP is they don't take a balanced approach and don't listen, it is growth or bust. Pollution doesn't equal progress, it represents greed. Welcome to Chinese mantra.
I applaud your more understanding approach to the situation as opposed to great_han and badguy's destructive views. I would have to argue that CCP does know what they are doing is wrong, and don't really care when their ultimate aim is to post double digit growth. The only reason they ever address anything is when people are getting ready to break out in civil revolt or going to cost them export dollars. The recent Copenhagen summit only affirms that the CCP thinks pollution is some kind of game they can play with the West to make them look politically weak. The whole while their country is being destroyed and millions suffer. The whole idea of conservation is to preserve what we have today so future generations can enjoy clean air, good soil and clean water. If China ever does reach the point economically where they will get off the destructive growth concept, it is going to be so expensive to clean up the damage, it will be too late to fix it, much less bringing glaciers back to the Himilayas to feed the Yangtze and Yellow Rivers. CCP has run out of time making mistakes, they have to get it right starting yesterday. As China's consumption increases, so are the demands on her already dwindling polluted resources. The clash of ecological and demographic disasters are close at hand on their current course. I fully respect the desire to become developed, but you shouldn't destroy your future in the process. You certainly shouldn't be playing games in Copenhagen when we are all trying to save what we have for future generations.Well, I have different point. When a developing country starts its industrilization, what the most it has is untrained work force with no skill. It is unlikly to expect everyone to work in the high-tech industry. You can choose to be like india: only focus on the clean industries while leaving hundreds of millions people waiting outside for another 2 decades, or you have to welcome every opportunities to bring employement to your people. As an old saying: beggar doesn't have lots choices.
Problem with CCP isn't they don't take a balanced approach or don't listen, it is that no one know how to take a balanced approach in such a hugh industrilization.
CCP has to figure it out step by step. It is no surprised that they made mistake and will make mistakes in the future.
Well, I must say you are underestimating the complex and difficulty of managing a country with 1.3 billion people. Knowing sth is one thing, but how to apply it without causing serious problem is another thing.I would have to argue that CCP does know what they are doing is wrong, and don't really care when their ultimate aim is to post double digit growth. The only reason they ever address anything is when people are getting ready to break out in civil revolt or going to cost them export dollars.
I don't know where you get this impression? At least, as a chinese, I know that the decision to cut pollustion per GDP unit has caused hugh objection among common chineses. So, I have to say that you have no understanding of the internal situation of china.The recent Copenhagen summit only affirms that the CCP thinks pollution is some kind of game they can play with the West to make them look politically weak.
Well, no one among CCP leaders denying this danger trend, but how to make the adjustment is the difficult part. What the chinese did in Copenhagen was to make the whole plan in favor of developing countries including india. The stance of china was supported by india and 77 countries group. So, before you point the fingure on china's policy, please try to persuade your gov first.I fully respect the desire to become developed, but you shouldn't destroy your future in the process. You certainly shouldn't be playing games in Copenhagen when we are all trying to save what we have for future generations.
Yes, I do imagine running a country of 1.3 billion by fear and intimidation is a complex task. They are affraid liberal reforms will cost them their hold on power. Well maybe it is time for them to give up since they are failing to make the necessary changes on their own. Even sham elections would be better than no elections at all.Well, I must say you are underestimating the complex and difficulty of managing a country with 1.3 billion people. Knowing sth is one thing, but how to apply it without causing serious problem is another thing.
Even the current pledge of per GDP unit will still see China's carbon emissions double in the next ten years. China can't take double the pollution it has now. It doesnt' matter what objections there are when the whole country is falling apart ecologically. Somebody better wise up before a third of the country turns into a dust bowl a third toxic waste dump, and the rest underwater.I don't know where you get this impression? At least, as a chinese, I know that the decision to cut pollustion per GDP unit has caused hugh objection among common chineses. So, I have to say that you have no understanding of the internal situation of china.
No, what China did was to obstruct any kind of negotiation by holding us hostage with your pollution. African and Pacific nation blocs out of those G-77 don't agree with China on their pollution levels. Well, hope you got what you wanted. Now there is no agreement and China will destroy itself. China's implosion will be self correcting. All we can do is sit back and watch.Well, no one among CCP leaders denying this danger trend, but how to make the adjustment is the difficult part. What the chinese did in Copenhagen was to make the whole plan in favor of developing countries including india. The stance of china was supported by india and 77 countries group. So, before you point the fingure on china's policy, please try to persuade your gov first.
Rulling chinese by fear and intimidation? Wow, CCP must be too stupied to realise that they forgot these 2 "powerful" weapons. Fears? The situation is that CCP is frightened that they will be overthrown if they can't bring better living standard to more ordinary people.Yes, I do imagine running a country of 1.3 billion by fear and intimidation is a complex task. They are affraid liberal reforms will cost them their hold on power. Well maybe it is time for them to give up since they are failing to make the necessary changes on their own. Even sham elections would be better than no elections at all.
Well, maybe or maybe not, I don't know and you don't know.Even the current pledge of per GDP unit will still see China's carbon emissions double in the next ten years. China can't take double the pollution it has now. It doesnt' matter what objections there are when the whole country is falling apart ecologically. Somebody better wise up before a third of the country turns into a dust bowl a third toxic waste dump, and the rest underwater.
Oh, realy? please give me the evidence that china FORCED india or other developing countries to stand with it. Is china that powerful?No, what China did was to obstruct any kind of negotiation by holding us hostage with your pollution. African and Pacific nation blocs out of those G-77 don't agree with China on their pollution levels. Well, hope you got what you wanted. Now there is no agreement and China will destroy itself. China's implosion will be self correcting. All we can do is sit back and watch.
Well, that is a tragic period. A result of mistaken marriage between communist and feudalism. Yes, Mao has his share in this mistake. But, we could not ignore the ordinary chinese's mistake in putting him into the position which was almost equal to god. Actually, long before the found of PRC, he was already regarded as a great emperor by ordinary chinese especially in countryside. But what he and his commorades trying to build is a mordern rulling system which has no room for an emporer. So, the clash begins. Fortunately, the clash was ended before we run into the civil war.Mo smoking,
Some comments on my post6, so that I slowly open the book chapter my chapter!
Can we have your comments on class enemies and what were the criterion to decide so?
Imprisoning Christian pastors 15 years for "disturbing the peace" Sending Christians to labour camps to "reducate" them in communist brainwashing. Tianamen Square is still in their minds and the massacre of Uighers is too.Rulling chinese by fear and intimidation? Wow, CCP must be too stupied to realise that they forgot these 2 "powerful" weapons. Fears? The situation is that CCP is frightened that they will be overthrown if they can't bring better living standard to more ordinary people.
Chinese people can't do anything about it, dissenters are killed or imprisoned. Even Christians who do not challenge the state are punished.Sorry, you are the one to make the judgement. The chinese people are the judge.
Even if China keeps its promise to reduce carbon emissions per unit of gross domestic product (GDP) by 40 to 45% by 2020, and if its economy grows by just eight%, its gas output could still double, they say.Well, maybe or maybe not, I don't know and you don't know.
Please read Wild Swans by Jung Swan and learn of how righteous her father was who was a staunch Communist but because of intrigues, he was called a rightist and then a capitalist roader. His name was finally cleared when Deng came to power!Well, that is a tragic period. A result of mistaken marriage between communist and feudalism. Yes, Mao has his share in this mistake. But, we could not ignore the ordinary chinese's mistake in putting him into the position which was almost equal to god. Actually, long before the found of PRC, he was already regarded as a great emperor by ordinary chinese especially in countryside. But what he and his commorades trying to build is a mordern rulling system which has no room for an emporer. So, the clash begins. Fortunately, the clash was ended before we run into the civil war.
Actually, if you want to make other indian better understanding china of today, i suggest you not to start from culture revolustion or great leap. That will only confuse them because all the principles used in CR or GLF are exactlly the ones opposed by CCP and common chineses today. I suggest you spending more on studying Deng since china's development was and is based on his theory.
Read the book Wild Swans and you will realise that it will be the day when the Chinese are allowed to judge without being sent for re-education or denunciation or bitter speak!Sorry, you are the one to make the judgement. The chinese people are the judge.
How old are you? You've ended up in a 2nd Cvivl War if you've not noticed.Well, that is a tragic period. A result of mistaken marriage between communist and feudalism. Yes, Mao has his share in this mistake. But, we could not ignore the ordinary chinese's mistake in putting him into the position which was almost equal to god. Actually, long before the found of PRC, he was already regarded as a great emperor by ordinary chinese especially in countryside. But what he and his commorades trying to build is a mordern rulling system which has no room for an emporer. So, the clash begins. Fortunately, the clash was ended before we run into the civil war.
You've GOT TO BE SHITTING ME! ALL Historians will tell you that the start of modern China began with the TaiPeng Rebellion. It is from there that the modern China as a nation as opposed to being an empire began. Before the TaiPeng Rebellion, it was ALWAYS the EMPIRE! After the Rebellion, it was CHINA, the MIDDLE KINGDOMActually, if you want to make other indian better understanding china of today, i suggest you not to start from culture revolustion or great leap. That will only confuse them because all the principles used in CR or GLF are exactlly the ones opposed by CCP and common chineses today. I suggest you spending more on studying Deng since china's development was and is based on his theory.
No matter how old i am, i am just telling the opionions among the common chinese (for example my grandfather, etc) who has both experienced the civil war and culture revolution. Maybe from professional military eyes like yours, it was a civil war. But for those who saw it with their own eyes, it was still not qualified to be a civil war based on the cruelty, scale, duration and organisation.How old are you? You've ended up in a 2nd Cvivl War if you've not noticed.
Again, it maybe professional historian's opinions but not common chineses. Taipeng Rebellion was just a beginning of seeking the answer of how to build a modern china. It was a failure.You've GOT TO BE SHITTING ME! ALL Historians will tell you that the start of modern China began with the TaiPeng Rebellion. It is from there that the modern China as a nation as opposed to being an empire began. Before the TaiPeng Rebellion, it was ALWAYS the EMPIRE! After the Rebellion, it was CHINA, the MIDDLE KINGDOM
And freak, I've got kids on this forum who tells me that I don't know China!
Funny that you use the term Westernise considering how much grief I get when I mention anything Western concerning China.Before Deng, every chinese elite knew we should westnize.