China`s Human Rights Violations

great_han

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[mod] This thread is not about India it is about China so stick to topic and don't try to flame bait with nonsense talks or action will be taken [/mod]
 

great_han

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Living in pollution is not caused by poverty, it is caused by poor government policies. When pollution destroys 1 million hectares arable land per year, creates air you can't breath, and pollutes most of your water supplies this is not aiding human rights, this is destroying it.
Dear Fellow,
You are totally wrong! Pollution DO improve Chinese human rights! Because pollution is caused by industry. Industry brings lots of job. Can you enjoy any of your NOBLE human rights if you are jobless? Pollution also means prosperity. Do you see any pollution in Africa? Japan was as polluted as China in 1970s. So enjoy your jobless poverty-stricken fresh air!
 

Armand2REP

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Pollution DO improve Chinese human rights! Because pollution is caused by industry. Industry brings lots of job. Can you enjoy any of your NOBLE human rights if you are jobless? Pollution also means prosperity. Do you see any pollution in Africa? Japan was as polluted as China in 1970s. So enjoy your jobless poverty-stricken fresh air!
Pollution in the excessive levels China produces, is caused by irresponsible and wreckless profiteering. There is a way to develop your country without destroying it and the people are rising up to tell the CCP that fact. Numerous incidents of peasants storming factories has occurred. Every developed nation has had this period in history where the people have confronted polluters and triumphed with liberal reforms through elected governments. Problem with CCP is they don't take a balanced approach and don't listen, it is growth or bust. Pollution doesn't equal progress, it represents greed. Welcome to Chinese mantra.
 

no smoking

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Pollution in the excessive levels China produces, is caused by irresponsible and wreckless profiteering. There is a way to develop your country without destroying it and the people are rising up to tell the CCP that fact. Numerous incidents of peasants storming factories has occurred. Every developed nation has had this period in history where the people have confronted polluters and triumphed with liberal reforms through elected governments. Problem with CCP is they don't take a balanced approach and don't listen, it is growth or bust. Pollution doesn't equal progress, it represents greed. Welcome to Chinese mantra.
Well, I have different point. When a developing country starts its industrilization, what the most it has is untrained work force with no skill. It is unlikly to expect everyone to work in the high-tech industry. You can choose to be like india: only focus on the clean industries while leaving hundreds of millions people waiting outside for another 2 decades, or you have to welcome every opportunities to bring employement to your people. As an old saying: beggar doesn't have lots choices.

Problem with CCP isn't they don't take a balanced approach or don't listen, it is that no one know how to take a balanced approach in such a hugh industrilization.

CCP has to figure it out step by step. It is no surprised that they made mistake and will make mistakes in the future.
 

Armand2REP

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Well, I have different point. When a developing country starts its industrilization, what the most it has is untrained work force with no skill. It is unlikly to expect everyone to work in the high-tech industry. You can choose to be like india: only focus on the clean industries while leaving hundreds of millions people waiting outside for another 2 decades, or you have to welcome every opportunities to bring employement to your people. As an old saying: beggar doesn't have lots choices.

Problem with CCP isn't they don't take a balanced approach or don't listen, it is that no one know how to take a balanced approach in such a hugh industrilization.

CCP has to figure it out step by step. It is no surprised that they made mistake and will make mistakes in the future.
I applaud your more understanding approach to the situation as opposed to great_han and badguy's destructive views. I would have to argue that CCP does know what they are doing is wrong, and don't really care when their ultimate aim is to post double digit growth. The only reason they ever address anything is when people are getting ready to break out in civil revolt or going to cost them export dollars. The recent Copenhagen summit only affirms that the CCP thinks pollution is some kind of game they can play with the West to make them look politically weak. The whole while their country is being destroyed and millions suffer. The whole idea of conservation is to preserve what we have today so future generations can enjoy clean air, good soil and clean water. If China ever does reach the point economically where they will get off the destructive growth concept, it is going to be so expensive to clean up the damage, it will be too late to fix it, much less bringing glaciers back to the Himilayas to feed the Yangtze and Yellow Rivers. CCP has run out of time making mistakes, they have to get it right starting yesterday. As China's consumption increases, so are the demands on her already dwindling polluted resources. The clash of ecological and demographic disasters are close at hand on their current course. I fully respect the desire to become developed, but you shouldn't destroy your future in the process. You certainly shouldn't be playing games in Copenhagen when we are all trying to save what we have for future generations.
 

no smoking

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I would have to argue that CCP does know what they are doing is wrong, and don't really care when their ultimate aim is to post double digit growth. The only reason they ever address anything is when people are getting ready to break out in civil revolt or going to cost them export dollars.
Well, I must say you are underestimating the complex and difficulty of managing a country with 1.3 billion people. Knowing sth is one thing, but how to apply it without causing serious problem is another thing.

The recent Copenhagen summit only affirms that the CCP thinks pollution is some kind of game they can play with the West to make them look politically weak.
I don't know where you get this impression? At least, as a chinese, I know that the decision to cut pollustion per GDP unit has caused hugh objection among common chineses. So, I have to say that you have no understanding of the internal situation of china.

I fully respect the desire to become developed, but you shouldn't destroy your future in the process. You certainly shouldn't be playing games in Copenhagen when we are all trying to save what we have for future generations.
Well, no one among CCP leaders denying this danger trend, but how to make the adjustment is the difficult part. What the chinese did in Copenhagen was to make the whole plan in favor of developing countries including india. The stance of china was supported by india and 77 countries group. So, before you point the fingure on china's policy, please try to persuade your gov first.
 

Armand2REP

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Well, I must say you are underestimating the complex and difficulty of managing a country with 1.3 billion people. Knowing sth is one thing, but how to apply it without causing serious problem is another thing.
Yes, I do imagine running a country of 1.3 billion by fear and intimidation is a complex task. They are affraid liberal reforms will cost them their hold on power. Well maybe it is time for them to give up since they are failing to make the necessary changes on their own. Even sham elections would be better than no elections at all.

I don't know where you get this impression? At least, as a chinese, I know that the decision to cut pollustion per GDP unit has caused hugh objection among common chineses. So, I have to say that you have no understanding of the internal situation of china.
Even the current pledge of per GDP unit will still see China's carbon emissions double in the next ten years. China can't take double the pollution it has now. It doesnt' matter what objections there are when the whole country is falling apart ecologically. Somebody better wise up before a third of the country turns into a dust bowl a third toxic waste dump, and the rest underwater.


Well, no one among CCP leaders denying this danger trend, but how to make the adjustment is the difficult part. What the chinese did in Copenhagen was to make the whole plan in favor of developing countries including india. The stance of china was supported by india and 77 countries group. So, before you point the fingure on china's policy, please try to persuade your gov first.
No, what China did was to obstruct any kind of negotiation by holding us hostage with your pollution. African and Pacific nation blocs out of those G-77 don't agree with China on their pollution levels. Well, hope you got what you wanted. Now there is no agreement and China will destroy itself. China's implosion will be self correcting. All we can do is sit back and watch.
 

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China jails senior Tibetan lama for 8 1/2 years

BEIJING: China has sentenced a respected Tibetan lama to 8 1/2 years in jail for illegal land occupation and ammunition possession, possibly the first senior Buddhist leader tried on serious charges linked to riots in 2008 in the Tibetan capital, a lawyer said on Thursday.

A court in southwestern Sichuan province bordering Tibet convicted Phurbu Tsering Rinpoche, who headed a convent in Ganzi, a predominantly Tibetan prefecture in the province, Beijing-based attorney Jiang Tianyong said.

Phurbu Tsering Rinpoche is a Buddhist priest, or lama, and is highly respected. He was arrested May 18, 2008, just days after more than 80 nuns in Ganzi held a demonstration against an official campaign to impose "patriotic re-education" on their convents, in which they were required to denounce Tibet's spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama.

The International Campaign for Tibet, an activist group, has described Phurbu Tsering Rinpoche as a "deeply respected local figure known for his work in the community," including the building of a centre for the aged and two clinics in Ganzi prefecture, whose detention aroused deep resentment among local Tibetans.

China jails senior Tibetan lama for 8 1/2 years - China - World - The Times of India
 

bhramos

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China Jails Christians during Christmas Season

Atmosphere of fear at Christmas in north China
By Robert Saiget (AFP) – 18 hours ago
LINFEN, China — Christians in north China are facing a Christmas of fear after 10 local religious leaders were jailed in recent weeks and their new church shut down amid a crackdown on unauthorised worship.
Five of the church leaders were given prison terms of up to seven-years by a Linfen court, while the others were sentenced without trial to labour camps for two years, their lawyer said.
Their crimes? "Illegally occupying farm land" and "disturbing transportation through a mass gathering".
"The authorities are clearly sending a message to the Christians," lawyer Li Fanping, who defended the church leaders at their trial last month, told AFP. He expressed shock at the severity of the punishment for minor offences.
"They've convicted them of these specific crimes. As Christmas is coming, a lot of Christians will want to gather to worship, but the authorities have made it clear what can happen if they gather."
China officially allows freedom of religion, but in practice, the ruling Communist Party restricts independent worship by forcing groups to register with the government.
About 15 million Protestants and five million Catholics worship at official churches, according to official data.
But more than 50 million others are believed to pray at "underground" or "house" churches,
which refuse to submit to government regulation.
At the heart of the Linfen case is the giant Golden Lamp Church, built by Yang Rongli and her husband Pastor Wang Xiaoguang through donations.
The church is capable of accommodating thousands of worshippers at a time and could serve the religious needs of many of the up to 60,000 Christians in the area.
Bob Fu, head of the US-based Christian rights group ChinaAid, said the church was leading a nationwide Christian revival through its evangelical work and social services which had brought it to the brink of official legitimacy.
"Local officials at the village level have been tolerating and even helping the Linfen church," he said, when asked how the leaders had been able to build the towering structure.
But it appears that more senior religious authorities began getting nervous at the size of the unregistered church, and feared its ability to organise ordinary people into what could become mass anti-government movements, Fu said.
The completion of the building in December 2008 sparked a crackdown on unregistered churches, with police in mid-September raiding numerous places of worship throughout Linfen linked to the Golden Lamp, locals said.
The worst clampdown appeared to be in nearby Fushan county, where up to 400 police and hired thugs levelled a makeshift church in a farming community, attacking worshippers and seriously injuring several people, they said.
"None of the followers fought back, they just silently protested the action by the authorities and took the beatings," one Christian told AFP by phone, asking to remain anonymous due to the sensitivity of the case.
"Right now it is too dangerous to meet outsiders -- the police are watching us and the phones are not safe to use," said the man, who is related to one of people who was jailed.
Other church followers refused AFP requests for interviews out of fear of retribution by police.
Following the crackdown, Yang, 51, entered talks with the government for up to two million yuan (293,000 dollars) in compensation for the injured and launched a drive to petition central authorities in Beijing, lawyer Li said.
That is when police began arresting the church leaders, he said.
The government's insistence that the church was built on agricultural lands is central to the charges on which Yang and Wang were convicted, Li said.
The Linfen government, police and courts all refused to comment on the case when contacted repeatedly by AFP.
When AFP visited the area, an armoured personnel carrier and a police car were stationed outside the Golden Lamp Church -- part of a larger security presence that has been in place since the September crackdown.

AFP: Atmosphere of fear at Christmas in north China
 

Ray

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Human Rights in China reminds me of the book I was reading "Wild Swans" written by Jung Chang given to be by a Chinese girl in Siangapore. Published by famlingo.

It is about Three Daughters of China i.e. three generations about her family, who were originally from Manchuria (though Han) and finally came to Chengdu and Yibin in Sichuan.

It speaks of the high corruption of the warlords and the Kuomingtang and how the Communists took over the country and in the beginning how they brought order to the country and also ensured all had food.

It takes one down how Mao's policies to make steel over agriculture (Great Leap Forward) brought about the Famine because of the make belief statistics being poured out and how many died.

Then the power struggle where Mao had to shed one of his post and Liu Shaoqi became the President and he and Deng Xiaoping tried to bring the economy on its feet and Mao's influence thus waned.

Hence, Mao with his wife to get back the unbridled power, released the Red Guards, who destroyed the Chinese historical artefacts and books and beat up their professor who were declared lot drawing rightist (chou-qian you-pai), toilet rightist (ee-suo you-pai), rightist who were said 'to have poison but not released it' (you-du bu-fang), self proclaimed rightists (zi-ren you-pai) and so on.

They were exiled for hard labour to remote areas etc and all that.

It was immense gripping and scary to read the times of the Cultural Revolution and the rampage of the Red Guards!

Therefore, it would be safe to assume that Human Rights as we understand will never be in China.

I recommend to all, Read this book!
 

no smoking

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Yes, I do imagine running a country of 1.3 billion by fear and intimidation is a complex task. They are affraid liberal reforms will cost them their hold on power. Well maybe it is time for them to give up since they are failing to make the necessary changes on their own. Even sham elections would be better than no elections at all.
Rulling chinese by fear and intimidation? Wow, CCP must be too stupied to realise that they forgot these 2 "powerful" weapons. Fears? The situation is that CCP is frightened that they will be overthrown if they can't bring better living standard to more ordinary people.

Sorry, you are the one to make the judgement. The chinese people are the judge.



Even the current pledge of per GDP unit will still see China's carbon emissions double in the next ten years. China can't take double the pollution it has now. It doesnt' matter what objections there are when the whole country is falling apart ecologically. Somebody better wise up before a third of the country turns into a dust bowl a third toxic waste dump, and the rest underwater.
Well, maybe or maybe not, I don't know and you don't know.


No, what China did was to obstruct any kind of negotiation by holding us hostage with your pollution. African and Pacific nation blocs out of those G-77 don't agree with China on their pollution levels. Well, hope you got what you wanted. Now there is no agreement and China will destroy itself. China's implosion will be self correcting. All we can do is sit back and watch.
Oh, realy? please give me the evidence that china FORCED india or other developing countries to stand with it. Is china that powerful?
 

Ray

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Mo smoking,

Some comments on my post6, so that I slowly open the book chapter my chapter!

Can we have your comments on class enemies and what were the criterion to decide so?
 

no smoking

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Mo smoking,

Some comments on my post6, so that I slowly open the book chapter my chapter!

Can we have your comments on class enemies and what were the criterion to decide so?
Well, that is a tragic period. A result of mistaken marriage between communist and feudalism. Yes, Mao has his share in this mistake. But, we could not ignore the ordinary chinese's mistake in putting him into the position which was almost equal to god. Actually, long before the found of PRC, he was already regarded as a great emperor by ordinary chinese especially in countryside. But what he and his commorades trying to build is a mordern rulling system which has no room for an emporer. So, the clash begins. Fortunately, the clash was ended before we run into the civil war.

Actually, if you want to make other indian better understanding china of today, i suggest you not to start from culture revolustion or great leap. That will only confuse them because all the principles used in CR or GLF are exactlly the ones opposed by CCP and common chineses today. I suggest you spending more on studying Deng since china's development was and is based on his theory.
 

Armand2REP

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Rulling chinese by fear and intimidation? Wow, CCP must be too stupied to realise that they forgot these 2 "powerful" weapons. Fears? The situation is that CCP is frightened that they will be overthrown if they can't bring better living standard to more ordinary people.
Imprisoning Christian pastors 15 years for "disturbing the peace" Sending Christians to labour camps to "reducate" them in communist brainwashing. Tianamen Square is still in their minds and the massacre of Uighers is too.

Sorry, you are the one to make the judgement. The chinese people are the judge.
Chinese people can't do anything about it, dissenters are killed or imprisoned. Even Christians who do not challenge the state are punished.

Well, maybe or maybe not, I don't know and you don't know.
Even if China keeps its promise to reduce carbon emissions per unit of gross domestic product (GDP) by 40 to 45% by 2020, and if its economy grows by just eight%, its gas output could still double, they say.

China emissions could double by 2020: Experts - China - World - The Times of India
 

Ray

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Well, that is a tragic period. A result of mistaken marriage between communist and feudalism. Yes, Mao has his share in this mistake. But, we could not ignore the ordinary chinese's mistake in putting him into the position which was almost equal to god. Actually, long before the found of PRC, he was already regarded as a great emperor by ordinary chinese especially in countryside. But what he and his commorades trying to build is a mordern rulling system which has no room for an emporer. So, the clash begins. Fortunately, the clash was ended before we run into the civil war.

Actually, if you want to make other indian better understanding china of today, i suggest you not to start from culture revolustion or great leap. That will only confuse them because all the principles used in CR or GLF are exactlly the ones opposed by CCP and common chineses today. I suggest you spending more on studying Deng since china's development was and is based on his theory.
Please read Wild Swans by Jung Swan and learn of how righteous her father was who was a staunch Communist but because of intrigues, he was called a rightist and then a capitalist roader. His name was finally cleared when Deng came to power!

It is a very moving book from the period of KMT to Deng and all the corruption of the KMT and the intrigues by Mao and Mme Mao to turn the country upside down.
 

Ray

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Sorry, you are the one to make the judgement. The chinese people are the judge.
Read the book Wild Swans and you will realise that it will be the day when the Chinese are allowed to judge without being sent for re-education or denunciation or bitter speak!
 

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Well, that is a tragic period. A result of mistaken marriage between communist and feudalism. Yes, Mao has his share in this mistake. But, we could not ignore the ordinary chinese's mistake in putting him into the position which was almost equal to god. Actually, long before the found of PRC, he was already regarded as a great emperor by ordinary chinese especially in countryside. But what he and his commorades trying to build is a mordern rulling system which has no room for an emporer. So, the clash begins. Fortunately, the clash was ended before we run into the civil war.
How old are you? You've ended up in a 2nd Cvivl War if you've not noticed.

Actually, if you want to make other indian better understanding china of today, i suggest you not to start from culture revolustion or great leap. That will only confuse them because all the principles used in CR or GLF are exactlly the ones opposed by CCP and common chineses today. I suggest you spending more on studying Deng since china's development was and is based on his theory.
You've GOT TO BE SHITTING ME! ALL Historians will tell you that the start of modern China began with the TaiPeng Rebellion. It is from there that the modern China as a nation as opposed to being an empire began. Before the TaiPeng Rebellion, it was ALWAYS the EMPIRE! After the Rebellion, it was CHINA, the MIDDLE KINGDOM

And freak, I've got kids on this forum who tells me that I don't know China!
 

no smoking

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How old are you? You've ended up in a 2nd Cvivl War if you've not noticed.
No matter how old i am, i am just telling the opionions among the common chinese (for example my grandfather, etc) who has both experienced the civil war and culture revolution. Maybe from professional military eyes like yours, it was a civil war. But for those who saw it with their own eyes, it was still not qualified to be a civil war based on the cruelty, scale, duration and organisation.

Those who'v ever participated the civil war told me the military struggling in culture revolustion was just like childish game in kindergarten.

You've GOT TO BE SHITTING ME! ALL Historians will tell you that the start of modern China began with the TaiPeng Rebellion. It is from there that the modern China as a nation as opposed to being an empire began. Before the TaiPeng Rebellion, it was ALWAYS the EMPIRE! After the Rebellion, it was CHINA, the MIDDLE KINGDOM

And freak, I've got kids on this forum who tells me that I don't know China!
Again, it maybe professional historian's opinions but not common chineses. Taipeng Rebellion was just a beginning of seeking the answer of how to build a modern china. It was a failure.

Before Deng, every chinese elite knew we should westnize. But the most difficult question is HOW? Deng was the first one who can answer this question systematically. What make Deng unique is that he was the first one who convice the common chinese including peasants that westnization is good for all of them. Even Mao has failed on this. After Deng, the common chinese realise that china's opportunity is to be a part of world instead of "MIDDLE KINGDOM".

So, in the ordinary chineses' eyes, modern china is started between 1976-1979.

I have to say, to some extent you indeed don't know today's mainland china society. No offense, just personal opionion.
 

Armand2REP

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Before Deng, every chinese elite knew we should westnize.
Funny that you use the term Westernise considering how much grief I get when I mention anything Western concerning China.
 

Ray

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Elite?

Mao's saying says:

"Peasants have dirty hands and cowshit sodden feet, but they are much cleaner than intellectuals!!''

I think it was Deng who said:

"What does the colour of a cat matter so long as it eats the mice!"

So, it was after Mao was dead that there was any recognition of the educated and intellectuals!
 

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