China refuses connect Afghanistan with Silk Road trade via Azure Route

[Neo]

Re: China refuses connect Afghanistan with Silk Road trade via Azure R

you mean you will send to the v rich middle east the same chinese ttextiles and 2nd class
low price products that you are sending to the poorer nations of europe ?
and your gwadar will help get it there faster ?
it will be a laughing -stock

as for selling to african countries - that is no doubt within your league - so stick to that, please
venturing into super-rich gulf is beyond your league

that's more like it - sell your ccp-quality products to your own people -
and you will use paklad labour for manufaturing ? now that's a smart move !
so in that sense Gwadar will be a so-called "manufacturing hub" that packland is so
enthusiastic about - lower cost labour for china ..

With all respect, you are being unreasonable here ma'am. Chinese exports to USA stood at $426 billion in 2014. Is that all 'cheap maal'? China has a huge export assortiment in different qualities and their policy is very simple: You get what you can afford and what you pay for.
Arabs can afford more quality than most of Asian.and African countries.

China is years ahead in maufacturing and quality than India; if you hold such a low opinion of the Chinese, you must hate inferior Indian brands right?

And if outsourcing is a crime then judge all the multinationals who have call centers, back offices or databanks in India. Judge yourself!
China has just started...

 

[Ray]

Re: China refuses connect Afghanistan with Silk Road trade via Azure R

You got one thing wrong: consumption based economy doesn't mean that Chinese will stop manufacturing or manufacturing less from value. It only indicates a new trend: Chinese public will get a bigger share from their national production.

That is where the problem lies.

Chinese prefer foreign brands
The five most recognized brands in China are all imported from overseas, the latest Campaign Asia-Pacific 2012 Asia's Top 1,000 Brands report shows.

In the Chinese market, the top 10 brands that successfully made themselves on to the list include Apple Inc, Nestle S.A., Chanel S.A., Sony Corp, Samsung Group, Uni-President Enterprises Corp, Panasonic Corp, Nike Inc, Canon Inc and Starbucks Corp. It is the first time the luxury brand Chanel was listed among the top 10.

While some other luxury brands such as Gucci, Armani and Louis Vuitton all saw their rankings rising up in the report, the homegrown Chinese brands saw their standing weakening on the same list.

Eight out of the top 20 most recognized brands in the Chinese market were Chinese brands in last year's report. However, this year's report shows only three local brands in the top 20. They are the leading traditional Chinese medicine pharmacy Beijing Tong Ren Tang, which ranked 11th, instant noodle brand Master Kong Holdings Ltd, 14th, and the nation's home appliance giant Haier Group, 15th (technically a multinational).

Household brand names Baidu Inc and Mengniu Dairy Co, which appeared in the top 10 last year, both saw their ranking drop this year in the Chinese market, the former to 37th place and the latter to 89th.

Meanwhile, no homegrown Chinese brand was listed among the top 100 in the Asia-Pacific region. Otremba said it "reiterates the challenges Chinese brands are facing to gain consumer recognition beyond their home markets".

Chinese people who start and end every day of their lives using overseas brands should not find the result too surprising.

"I have used several different brands of digital products but seldom Chinese domestic brands. The homegrown brands lag far behind the leading international ones in terms of technology - and design, especially.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-08/06/content_15647117.htm

China is years ahead in maufacturing and quality than India; if you hold such a low opinion of the Chinese, you must hate inferior Indian brands right?

That would not be true actually.

I think you mistakenly equate Indian quality with Pakistan quality.

 

[Ray]

Re: China refuses connect Afghanistan with Silk Road trade via Azure R

Donot confuse TTP with Aghan Taleban, these are two different entities. The former poses no direct military threat to Pakistan where as the latter is a pure militant group that consists of local militants and foreign mercenaries; many of them have served in Afghanistan.as well as abroad. We have no beef with Afghan Taleban, its the TTP we are after.

This is what DAWN has to say

MANY Pakistanis are confused about the true nature of the Taliban and the Taliban movement. But some can clearly distinguish between the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban and see the former as a legitimate resistance force fighting against foreign occupants in their homeland. This perception exists even if Pakistani Taliban reject the impression that they are different from the Afghan Taliban.

In fact, many believe that Pakistani Taliban groups are not deserving of sympathy and label them as foreign agents, criminals and thugs. But then again, there are others who give them maximum concessions and say the Pakistani Taliban are a misled lot of militants.

This shows that there is confusion about the Pakistani Taliban — and this is reflected in the difference of opinion among policymakers, political and religious parties, the media and the general public.....

Taking advantage of the confusion that prevails, the Afghan Taliban groups operating across the Pak-Afghan border camouflage themselves in Pakistan's doctrine of strategic depth, and render policy responses even more confused. At the same time, they have also managed to gradually reduce the space for Pakistan to use them as a tool of strategic manoeuvring in Afghanistan.

One reason behind the lack of clear policy on Pakistan's part could be the ambiguity and confusion among its policymakers on the use of the Taliban as a balancing factor in Afghanistan.

Apart from the so-called strategic perspective of the debate, the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban have many commonalities and few divergences. Although they hail from two different territories, they do not believe in geographical boundaries. Indeed, the Taliban's (Afghan and Pakistani) main strength lies in their ties with each other which they use to launch common operations in Afghanistan.

In the eyes of some, the Pakistani Taliban gain political and moral legitimacy by associating themselves with the Afghan Taliban. Their tribal and ethnic ties provide them with social space and acceptance among a segment of society.

If the Afghan Taliban succeed in Afghanistan, at a certain stage they will have to choose between their militant allies and Pakistan. There is greater likelihood of their joining the former.

The relationship between the Taliban of Afghanistan and Pakistan is not a post-9/11 story. It goes back to when the Afghan Taliban's consolidation of power in Afghanistan in the mid-1990s impacted Pakistan's tribal areas in two ways. First, the ethnic and religious affinity of the tribes with the Taliban augmented the latter's support base, and secondly, the influence of Deobandi militant organisations and madressahs increased in the region.

During the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, attempts to establish a similar religious/Sharia system in the tribal areas had already begun. For example, Mullah Abdul Raheem, a cleric from Orakzai Agency, launched his own Taliban movement in Orakzai in 1997 and tried to enforce the Sharia.

At their core, the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban espouse Deobandi sectarian teachings. This commonality allows them to function under a single umbrella, even though their political interpretation of Deobandi principles is at times not monolithic. As a group, both the Taliban maintain a dogmatic stance by espousing an interpretation that is intolerant of all other Muslim sects. This ought to isolate both strands of Taliban from the majority of Pakistanis who adhere to Barelvi traditions.

However, this was only partially the case when the insurgency took off, as the Pakistani Taliban craftily created a narrative around their movement that found sympathy across the sectarian divide. They strove to portray their struggle as aiming at driving out foreign "occupation" forces from Afghanistan in the short run, and all "infidel" forces from Muslim lands in the long run.

It is an open secret that in both countries, many militant groups, a number of whom were previously part of Pakistan's foreign policy adventures, turned against the state after Islamabad joined the international alliance aimed at fighting the militants based in Afghanistan and in the Pak-Afghan border areas.

Both the extract above are from DAWN Pakistan. The two Taliban - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

Therefore it is not @roma who is confused, but it is YOU, a Pakistani, who is confused as the article mentions.

True and they will not target Chahbahar either. They control the highway running through their territory all the way to the border town of Saranj and they can block it anytime they want.

That maybe so, but you fail to realise that sealing the border with Pakistan is the key to ensure that insurgency is first minimised and then slowly de-fanged.

It is a fond delusion of those who want Afghanistan to boil that Afghans who have had their lives destroyed for decades do not with to have peace and rebuild their lives.

All want peace and that is why your General Sharif launched a serious Army operation against TTP. However, he is failing because he cannot seal the Durand Line because of Pakistan's interest to destabilise Afghanistan with the Taliban hordes so that there comes a Govt which is subservient to Pakistan.

I beg to disagree, opening a dialogue with the Talebs is a smart move and if Americans had done the same earlier, they would have saved a war and contain the militant arm of the Taleban, i.e. the Al-Qaeda only. It took them more than five bloody years and billions in wasted money to realise that the Taleban were not the enemy and they opened a dualogue (2008?) in Doha.
Afghan Taleban pose no threat to neighboring countries, they only want to seize the power in Kabul and settle a Pakhtoon majority govt under the shariah law. Al-Qaeda is out of Afghanistan, its leadership is now hiding in Yemen.

Dialogue with terrorists can never succeed. They are brainwashed in their cause and they are punch drunk with power. Unrest is their lifeblood. Peace, temporary or permanent will asphyxiate them and deprive them their oxygen of existence.

Dawn has clearly indicated that no Taliban is good. And share power? Terrorists sharing power? That would be a fond delusion for those who want to use them and it will return to bite. Heard of two terrorist organisation/ entities who are fearing each other? ISIS and AQ. So, let us not dream with fantasy dreams.

Our leverage is that we know and understand the Afghan Taleban; for years we functioned as their only diplomatic channel until the US opened direct talks with them.

That is what you wish to lull yourself with - that Pakistan understand Afghan Taliban.

There is no honour amongst thieves.

Fazlullah (head of TTP) had declared that the Pakistani Taliban does not recognize the Durand Line, which separates Pakistan and Afghanistan.

"We want to declare that we do not accept the Durand Line, which has divided the Pashtoon Muslims like the Berlin Wall. It has separated father from son, brother from brother and relatives," he said.
Pakistani Taliban only loyal to Mullah Omar, says TTP spokesperson – The Express Tribune

That is in consonance with the Afghan Taliban's view point

When the Soviet forces left, the ISI initially sought to install Afghan surrogates considered to be opposed to the Pashtunistan concept. When these groups proved unable to consolidate their power, Islamabad turned to the Taliban, who had a Pashtun base but were dominated by clerical leaders with a pan-Islamic ideology who had no previous identification with the Pashtunistan movement. Significantly, however, when the Taliban came to power they did not play to the tunes of Islamabad and did not recognise the Durand Line despite Pakistani pressures to do so

Find out more from UK Essays here: The genesis of durand line, pakistan factor and pashthunistan

Afghan Taleban's grief with us is restricted to Pakistan's support for US/NATO/ISAF and the undiscriminated bombing by western powers the Pakistani airspace and soil. Well that chapter is about to close and we are in talk with them, the Afghan Taleban to islolate the TTP helping cells in Afghanistan.

China is probably doing the same by telling them to isolate the Uyghurs from getting combat training from AQ splinter cells which are still operating in Afghanistan.

You will understand the difference if you know the TTP and Afghan Taleban better.

The Afghans grief is that they want to be their own masters and not a surrogate of anyone, and surely not Pakistan.

Pakistan's fear is that if the Durand Line is not recognised as the IB, then there will be another

1958 Afghan stamp promoting "Greater Pashtunistan Day" Vast numbers of Afghans believe that Pakistan is deliberately undermining Afghanistan and Pashtun problem in particular. Consequently, Afghan leaders have repeatedly found it impossible to discuss the border due to immense public passion. Pakistan, also a multiethnic state, fears that further dismemberment (East Pakistan split off to become Bangladesh in 1971) might spell the end of the Pakistani state altogether. Provincial autonomy for Pashtuns of Afghanistan was the main demand of the Afghan Government all along the Durand Line controversy. It's also noteworthy to point out that the Pashtuns have more in common with Pakistanis than they do with the other ethnicities of Afghanistan: Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, etc. This again is a complicated matter since Pakistan is organised along generally ethnic lines while Afghanistan is organised on mixed lines, the Afghan provinces being size of Pakistani districts. However, the fact is Afghanistan never showed willingness to allow its own Pashtun majority regions to join an independent Pashtunistan. The rise of Taliban was partly due to Pushtun frustrations. It was the historic phenomenon of coming together of Paushtun tribesmen at the time of crisis. Pushtuns of different inclinations either openly supported or approved of them this created an 'artificial unity among Paushtuns

Find out more from UK Essays here: The genesis of durand line, pakistan factor and pashthunistan

You will understand the issue better if you, yourself, understood the Talibans better.
.

 

[roma]

Re: China refuses connect Afghanistan with Silk Road trade via Azure R

With all respect, you are being unreasonable here ma'am. Chinese exports to USA stood at $426 billion in 2014. Is that all 'cheap maal'? China has a huge export assortiment in different qualities and their policy is very simple: You get what you can afford and what you pay for.
Arabs can afford more quality than most of Asian.and African countries.

China is years ahead in maufacturing and quality than India; if you hold such a low opinion of the Chinese, you must hate inferior Indian brands right?

And if outsourcing is a crime then judge all the multinationals who have call centers, back offices or databanks in India. Judge yourself!
China has just started...

Neo-ji ..... this is a case of cross-fire .
(1) My comments may have been a bit off the line because if you are accurate , you'll see they were
a reply, addressed, to someone from ccp-china and not to your good self or a Pakistani person ,
in which case i would have had a different ( and more polite ) flavor for you guys ( preferential treatment for you )

(2) so it is not nec to get annoyed as it is a cross-fire that you've chosen to be in .
still i do not agree that china mfg is better than india - china does have a wider range than india
yes, much wider and it starts from very low end stuff, basically junk to mid range
whereas india is from mid range to just below really quality stuff .... you may not agree with that
india has chosen not to produce junk although economically we are losing out for that decision.

(3) It is not true that "china has just started" .....they inherited all the factories that the defeated
Japanese ( defeated by usa not china ) left behind in manchuria and that gave china a jump-start
to begin manufacturing and still after so many decades , other than that one exception i.e. Huwaei telephones,
other than that you might disagree with me , but i feel they produce mostly junk. China started manufacturing
in earnest immediately after WW2, so it is quite a few decade by now .

(4 ) the next point i also feel is correct is that they are gonna use Pakistani wage-system as an
opportunity for labour as cheap labour ... is there something incorrect in what im saying ?
The israelis offered Gaza to be a new kind of honkong in the middle east and the gazans turned it down

well china is offering the same to Gwadar and Pakistan is wise not to turn it down
but let's not exaggerate and say that gwadar is gonna be some manufacturing hub ?
it is a cheap labour hub ....for china !

so it is better than them being unemployed and up to mischief a la Pak Taleban
but again , let's not exaggerate

(5) in terms of cheap labour, no doubt india offers the same in terms of teh call centers you mentioned
the difference is that it is open to all countries and not a kind of china pet cat.

(6 ) the actual point of my earlier post which you referred to is infact what you had correctly noted
my main point was that the rich Arabs do not need the junk quality chinese products and they
are not interested in paying low prices - so in that sense i still maintain , it is worth a laugh !
If we had concentrated in this one main point , there would not have been any misunderstanding
and no feeling that i am being in any way unfair or disparaging
it is merely a statement of fact :-
i.e.
rich arabs are NOT interested in china products ( made by Pakistan ) !

(6) once again i do have a special place for all Pakistani members on this forum
i will always be very polite to them ------- not so for the ccp-china members
if youre offended by that , all i can say is that it's the best i can do for now

best regards, R

 

[amoy]

Re: China refuses connect Afghanistan with Silk Road trade via Azure R

rich arabs are NOT interested in china products

my main point was that the rich Arabs do not need the junk quality chinese products and they
are not interested in paying low prices

ma'am @roma seems to worship dandified Arabs so devoutly... Rich Arabs Rich Arabs, look how many times she's repeated this like "Open Sesame, Open".

Only one example is enough to prick Roma's wild bubble >>> Chinese Built Light Rails whisks One Million Hajis to Mecca from Mina, Arafat & Muzdalifah | Jafria News

Most of Indian muslims on Hajj pilgrimage must have ridden on cheap Chinese rails after travelling to Saudi on GoI subsidies.

How many more needed to wake Roma up from her rich-Arabs obsession (or inferiority complex more straight forwardly?)

 

[roma]

Re: China refuses connect Afghanistan with Silk Road trade via Azure R

ma'am @roma seems to worship dandified Arabs so devoutly... Rich Arabs Rich Arabs, look how many times she's repeated this like "Open Sesame, Open".

Only one example is enough to prick Roma's wild bubble >>> Chinese Built Light Rails whisks One Million Hajis to Mecca from Mina, Arafat & Muzdalifah | Jafria News

Ooi - 50 renminbi
please learn to differentiate between ccpchina infrastructure projects
agaisnt cpchina (manufactured by pak ) low-cost (junk) products

hey, 50c ...... products does not = projects ....unnerstann ?

 

[amoy]

Re: China refuses connect Afghanistan with Silk Road trade via Azure R

Oi - 50 renminbi
please learn to differentiate between ccpchina infrastructure projectsagaisnt cpchina
manufactured low-cost (junk) products
hey, products not = projects ....unnerstann ?

Nope I don't unnnerstann your Arabic

 

[no smoking]

Re: China refuses connect Afghanistan with Silk Road trade via Azure R

That is where the problem lies.

You know that most people don't use luxury products in your daily life, don't you?

That would not be true actually.

I think you mistakenly equate Indian quality with Pakistan quality.

Well, I think you mistaken by putting Indian quality above Pakistan quality. Yes, we know because we studied Indian product and Pakistan product.
Indian products are good on packaging and marketing, but if we only talk about quality, you are same.

 

[ezsasa]

Re: China refuses connect Afghanistan with Silk Road trade via Azure R

You know that most people don't use luxury products in your daily life, don't you?




Well, I think you mistaken by putting Indian quality above Pakistan quality. Yes, we know because we studied Indian product and Pakistan product.
Indian products are good on packaging and marketing, but if we only talk about quality, you are same.

define luxury products in your context!!!

 

[ahsanhp]

China is a bigger economy so it has more influence as compared to other countries of Asia.
https://www.homyonline.com/Window AC LG zamil Classic Gree.

 

[WolfLarsen]

Donot confuse TTP with Aghan Taleban, these are two different entities. The former poses no direct military threat to Pakistan where as the latter is a pure militant group that consists of local militants and foreign mercenaries; essay writing solutions.

 

[Compersion]

Always wondered if Pakis are approached by Brunei , Malaysia, Indonesia (Muslim) on what is happening in Xinjiang, Afghanistan and Baluchistan and compare with Spratly Islands. I’m sure Pakis would have a lot to contribute and the former three stakeholders would appreciate the Pakis advise.

The Spratly Islands has a big role of Pakis ... they are Islamic protectors of Mecca and more. PRC and Pakis must surely have a good time with the all of the above “kids” from Baluchistan to Spratly Islands.