China preventing UN action on Libya

Discussion in 'China' started by captonjohn, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    ^^ Is there some reason you highlight Gaddafi propaganda? If he was serious about a ceasefire, he would withdraw his forces from Misrata. He has called it three times before, all being lies. Getting rid of him is "protection of civilians."
     
  2. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    ^^ Do you think anyone buys the propaganda from the madmen in NATO that you keep reiterating? This is an English forum. If you do not understand the difference between 'civilians' and 'rebels', help yourself and buy yourself a dictionary before you come up with your imbecilic comments.
     
  3. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Um... yeah. Cluster munitions, indiscriminate shelling of civilians, rape and torture of women.. these are the tactics of the Gaddafi regime and they aren't directed at the rebels. If he has his way to move on these cities, he will "run the streets red with blood." If you do not understand the meaning of 'genocidal madman', help yourself to a dictionary before you write such imbecilic comments.
     
  4. Nonynon

    Nonynon Regular Member

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    I heard something interesting on the TV news but didn't find an internet article about it. Gaddafi threatened that if Nato wouldn't agree to his seize fire deal then he would "bring the war to Italy". That would be the first war on Italy sense ww2 if I'm correct so that's gotta have a huge affect on the Italian people.
     
  5. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Firstly, I am not a Sarkozy fanboy. Secondly, what happened was an attempted assassination of Gaddafi and murder of members of Gaddafi's family members who probably have nothing to do with this civil war. Thirdly, I have no reason to believe that the rebels themselves are not indulging in the crimes that you are accusing Gaddafi of. Fourthly, there is enough evidence on how NATO blockaded fleeing Serb civilians from butchering KLA fighters, only to be rescued by the Serb Army. NATO and 'protecting civilians' is as good as a lion and deer drinking water from the same pond.

    Did you get yourself a dictionary yet? If not then don't waste your time. Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous day by day. Just have a look at some of the recent conversations that you have been having with several people. Also, try to come out of this juvenile 'momma-he-stole-my-candy' attitude and grow up.
     
  6. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Gaddafi's son killed in NATO strike
    By Middle East correspondent Anne Barker, wires

    Updated 5 hours 32 minutes ago

    PreviousNextSlideshow: Photo 1 of 2

    Saif al-Arab Gaddafi was 29 years old. (myartikel.wordpress.com)

    RELATED STORY: NATO dismisses Gaddafi's truce offer
    RELATED STORY: Libya's Gaddafi ready for ceasefire, refuses to leave
    RELATED STORY: Syrians flee to Lebanon as violence continues
    RELATED STORY: Libyan tanks launch assault on Misrata
    Defiant Libyan leader Moamar Gaddafi has escaped a NATO airstrike but a government spokesman says his youngest son and three grandchildren were all killed.

    The missile strike hit Mr Gaddafi's residential compound at Bab al Aziziya in the capital Tripoli shortly after 6.00pm (local time).

    Reporters were shown extensive damage to the building.

    Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim says Mr Gaddafi's youngest son, 29-year-old Saif al Arab Gaddafi, was killed along with three of Mr Gaddafi's grandchildren.

    "The house of Saif al-Arab Gaddafi... who is the youngest of the leader's children, was attacked tonight with full power," he said.

    "The leader with his wife was there in the house with other friends and relatives."

    Saif al-Arab was a civilian and a student who had studied in Germany. He was one of Gaddafi's less prominent sons, with a limited role in the Tripoli power structure.

    Mr Ibrahim told a news conference in Tripoli that Mr Gaddafi himself was not hurt.

    "The leader himself is in good health; he wasn't harmed," he said. "His wife is also in good health; she wasn't harmed [but] other people were injured.

    "This was a direct operation to assassinate the leader of this country."

    NATO has not confirmed the deaths, but it did confirm it struck a key military installation in the area at that time.

    "NATO continued its precision strikes against regime military installations in Tripoli overnight, including striking a known command and control building in the Bab al-Azizya neighbourhood shortly after 1800 GMT Saturday evening," it said.

    NATO's commander of Libya operations, Canadian Lieutenant-General Charles Bouchard, said the target was part of a strategy to damage Mr Gaddafi's ability to plan and conduct attacks on civilians.

    "All NATO's targets are military in nature and have been clearly linked to the Gaddafi regime's systematic attacks on the Libyan population... We do not target individuals," he said in a statement.

    "I am aware of unconfirmed media reports that some of Gaddafi's family members may have been killed.

    "We regret all loss of life, especially the innocent civilians being harmed as a result of the ongoing conflict."

    The Libyan rebel capital Benghazi was rocked by sustained gunfire and explosions as fighters sent off volleys of celebratory fire after reports of the younger Gaddafi's death.

    "They are so happy that Gaddafi lost his son in an air strike that they are shooting in celebration," said Colonel Ahmed Omar Bani, military spokesman of the Libyan opposition Transitional Nation Council, headquartered in the eastern city of Benghazi.

    The missile strike came hours after Mr Gaddafi had again offered to cease fire.

    "I have no official functions to give up: I will not leave my country and will fight to the death," he said.

    But he added a conciliatory note.

    "We are ready to talk with France and the United States, but with no preconditions," he said.

    "We will not surrender, but I call on you to negotiate. If you want petrol, we will sign contracts with your companies. It is not worth going to war over.

    "Between Libyans, we can solve our problems without being attacked, so pull back your fleets and your planes."

    But NATO leaders rejected the offer, saying it lacked credibility.

    An international coalition began carrying out strikes on forces loyal to Moamar Gaddafi on March 19 under a United Nations Security Council mandate to protect Libyan civilians.

    NATO took command of operations over Libya on March 31.

    Massive protests in February - inspired by the revolts that toppled long-time autocrats in Egypt and Tunisia - escalated into war when Mr Gaddafi's troops fired on demonstrators and protesters seized several eastern towns.

    - ABC/wires
     
  7. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    A) Gaddafi was in the building = legitimate target
    B) Your beliefs of incidents without evidence don't mean anything
    C) Serb civilians are free to cross the border anytime they wish
    D) protecting civilians means stopping genocidal madmen

    What is with the personal attacks? If you want to talk moral justification, be my guest. Attacking me is just a sign of weakness in your argument.
     
  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    It is not about beliefs. It is about facts. The UN resolution was about protecting civilians, not armed rebels. This is not merely my belief, this is a fact. That the rebels are armed and fighting is also not merely my belief, but a fact and there are enough evidences for that. Go back in this thread and see for yourself. Gaddafi's son and grandchildren have been killed. This is not protecting civilians, this is attempted assassination or simply murder. UN resolution never advocated murdering Gaddafi. What we are seeing is not the interpretation of the UN resolution in letter, but gross interpretation in spirit and going far beyond the mandate given by the UN.

    P.S.: When I say 'NATO blockaded', I am talking about the past. You replied 'Serb civilians are free' which is in the present context. Need I say more? Yes, Serb civilians are free, but were the Serb civilians free at certain time points to flee during the war?

    You are the person who has been all throughout trying to portray the armed rebels as civilians. I have in the past shared a link with you with the definition of the word 'rebel'. Asking you to get a dictionary is quite legitimate. If we at all have to argue, we need to speak a common language. I am trying to argue in English, but you are struggling at it.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  9. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    What facts do you have rebels are committing war crimes?

    Are rebels using cluster munitions, raping and torturing women, indiscriminately shelling civilians, vowing to make a bloodbath of pro-Gaddafi cities? I have no reports to this effect, I do have plenty on Gaddafi.

    Resolution 1973 said "by any means necessary." If the only way to get Gaddafi to stop is to kill him, then that falls under the resolution. The only thing prohibited in 1973 is leaving occupation troops, which doesn't rule out a limited ground operation.

    Um... yeah. NATO troops weren't there during the war to blockade them. :confused:

    I don't need to see a definition of the word 'rebel'. They are not committing war crimes. If you have evidence to the contrary, then that I will entertain.
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Do you have any evidence that Gaddafi forces are committing war crimes other than claims by NATO countries? Yes they are shelling rebel held areas. What are they supposed to do. When it is a known fact that rebels have light and heavy weapons, they are a completely legitimate target. If Gaddafi shelling rebel held areas is war crime, then NATO bombing Gaddafi held areas is also a war crime. NATO bombardment has had civilian casualties. You cannot have double standards here, which you do.


    I too have reports of rebels using ZU-23, RPG, Igla/Strela, Mil-24 against Libyan Army and pro-Gaddafi tribal militia. I am not going to provide them to you because there are enough pictures already posted in this thread and other related threads.

    And one way to stop civilian casualties is for the rebels and Gaddafi forces to talk, offers of which the rebels have consistently spurned. Bombing Tripoli by NATO using super inaccurate missiles and causing collateral damage is not the same as stopping civilian casualties. I am sure your rudimentary mind will conclude that killing Gaddafi's grandchildren was very much a legitimate action.

    You don't have to entertain anything. You are providing us with enough entertainment with your convoluted logic and poor understanding of simple English vocabulary.
     
  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Libya crisis: UN to quit Tripoli amid mob attacks

    Libya crisis: UN to quit Tripoli amid mob attacks

    1 May 2011 Last updated at 15:15 ET; BBC News


    Click to play: The villa in Col Gaddafi's compound was severely damaged in the strike


    The UN is withdrawing all its international staff from the Libyan capital Tripoli following a mob attack on its offices.

    UN buildings and some foreign missions were targeted by angry crowds following a Nato air strike that reportedly killed a son of Col Gaddafi.

    A UN official told the BBC its staff would withdraw from Libya and the decision would be reviewed next week.

    After its Tripoli embassy was sacked, the UK expelled the Libyan ambassador.

    A BBC team in Tripoli said the British embassy was completely burnt out with fires still smouldering and paperwork and other debris scattered outside.

    In other developments, witnesses reported heavy shelling by pro-Gaddafi forces on the port of Misrata on Sunday. The city has been besieged for two months.

    Libyan state TV said the port was shelled to stop Nato delivering weapons to insurgents but rebels said an aid ship had been trying to unload.

    UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said Libyan ambassador Omar Jelban had been given 24 hours to leave the country.

    By not protecting diplomatic missions, the Gaddafi regime had "once again breached its international responsibilities and obligations", said Mr Hague.

    He added: "The attacks against diplomatic missions will not weaken our resolve to protect the civilian population in Libya."

    The Italian foreign ministry condemned the "acts of vandalism" on its embassy, describing them as "grave and vile". Italy - which closed its embassy in March and is represented by Turkey - recently joined the Nato mission in Libya.

    There were also protests outside the US mission in Tripoli.

    A UN official said the Libyan government had apologised for the attack on its offices, blaming an angry mob for the damage.

    Most Western governments evacuated staff from Tripoli when an international coalition began air strikes on Libya several weeks ago.

    Late on Saturday, the Libyan government said Saif al-Arab Gaddafi and three of Col Gaddafi's grandchildren had died in a Nato attack on a villa in Tripoli.


    Click to play: Inside Britain's burnt out embassy in Tripoli

    Foreign reporters were shown widespread damage to the building in Col Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound.

    Nato has insisted its raid targeted a "command-and-control" building, and that all Nato targets were "military in nature".

    Libyan government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said Col Gaddafi and his wife had been in the building at the time of the attack but they were both unharmed.

    He said the air strike was against international law and "a direct operation to assassinate the leader of this country".

    Nato is operating in Libya under a strict UN mandate to protect civilians.

    Later on Sunday, Libyan state TV said funerals for Saif al-Arab Gaddafi and the other victims would be held on Monday after noon prayers.

    [​IMG]
    Pro-Gaddafi supporters displayed pictures of Saif al-Arab Gaddafi for foreign journalists

    The BBC's Christian Fraser witnessed the damage and said that if Col Gaddafi had been there, it is hard to imagine he could have walked away unscathed.

    Russia expressed "serious doubts" that the West was not targeting Col Gaddafi and his family.

    "The claims of the coalition members that strikes over Libya do not have the physical destruction of Muammar Gaddafi and members of his family as their goal cause serious doubts," a statement from the foreign ministry said.


    In the eastern rebel stronghold of Benghazi, shots were fired in celebration following reports that Saif al-Arab Gaddafi had been killed.

    However, the claims were also treated with scepticism.

    Mahmoud Shammam, spokesman for the anti-Gaddafi Transitional National Council (TNC) based in Benghazi, told al-Jazeera he believed it was "a ploy to fish for people's sympathy".

    Khaled al-Urfi, a resident of the rebel-held western city of Misrata, told AP news agency: "We don't know if it is true or not because Gaddafi is a liar. I will only believe it if you put the body in front of me."

    On Saturday, Nato officials said the alliance would not consider talks until government forces stopped attacks on civilians.

    The vice-chairman of the rebel Transitional National Council also rejected the offer of negotiations.

    [​IMG]

    Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13253896
     

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