China-Pakistan nexus.

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by A.V., Feb 21, 2009.

  1. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    No, majority supports Sino-Pak friendship since it comes with no strings attached and usually benefits the comon man.
     
  2. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Indian steel industry, which is amongst top 15th, is amongst the least protected steel industry in the world.

    Ore and Coal reserves are humongous and steel producing is proportionately small. There is "plenty to go around".

    Ore prices are regulated for domestic consumption and unregulated for exports. Need I remind you that steel prices were at an all time high, when India levied duties.

    Anyways India has been one of the largest ore exporter for decades and it is only now that govt is encouraging investments to exploit this resource. In fact till 15 years back there was just one private company in steel industry. And today private companies are outproducing public sector companies by some 2:1 in "finished steel" (& 4:1 in pig iron). The multiplier effect of steel is 1.3-1.7 (I don't recollect correctly).

    Nor can it hope to have, if it follows the Indian(70-90s) or African example.

    Pakistan unlike Australia or Brazil is not super abundant in resources or super low in population because of which it cannot adequately exploit its own natural bounty. (I am awaiting a link on its said resources).

    I don't doubt the industrious nature of the Pakistanis, it all depends on what the govt deems fit. Short term or Long term ?

    China had insignificant natural resources, yet its govt built industries to exploit other's natural resources and today China is the world's largest producer, consumer, exporter and importer of steel.
     
  3. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    Destroyer "Guangzhou" set sail for multinational maritime exercise in Pakistan.

    [​IMG]


    The destroyer "Guangzhou" (Hull Number 168) of the PLA Navy set sail for the sea waters off Pakistan at 17:00 on Feb.21 from Sanya City of Hainan Province to participate in the "Peace 09" multinational maritime military exercise.

      The multinational maritime military exercise is initiated by the Pakistani Navy. Navies from 11 countries, including China, the U.S., the U.K., France, Japan and Turkey, will send their ships, aircraft and Marine Corps elements to participate in the exercise. And military observers from 20-odd countries, including Russia, Germany, Australia, Egypt and Indonesia will view the exercise.

      To be held in the sea waters off Karachi in Pakistan from March 5 to 14, the multinational maritime military exercise is divided into two phases, namely the harbor and coastal exercise for Marine Corps and the real force maritime exercise.

      The exercise mainly includes such items as maritime search-and-rescue exercise, anti-piracy operation and fleet formation defense. Helicopters and Marine Corps members will also make a show of themselves in some items.

      In addition, a workshop on the international maritime safety will be held during the phase of harbor and coastal exercise.

      The Chinese Navy sends a task force composed of the destroyer "Guangzhou" from the South China Sea Fleet (SCSF), a helicopter and 10 members of the Marine Corps to participate in this "Peace 09" exercise.

      Chen Yueqi, a commander of a destroyer flotilla under the SCSF of PLA Navy, is appointed to be in charge of the task force that is composed of altogether 318 officers and men.

      Through the exercise, the Chinese Navy aims to gain useful experience from foreign counterparts, strengthen its communication capacity, and learn how to cooperate with foreign navies in handling new threats and challenges at sea and maintain regional peace and stability.

      The Chinese Navy, together with task forces from France, Turkey, the United Kingdom and the United States, attended a Pakistani Navy-initiated joint military exercise in March 2007.

      On the afternoon of Feb. 20, an oath-taking and mobilization ceremony was held on the destroyer "Guangzhou".

      At 16:30 on Feb. 21, the South China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy held a seeing-off ceremony for the destroyer "Guangzhou" at a harbor in Sanya City.
     
  4. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    Oil...the bane of Pakistan and China's existance.

    PART 1

    India needs to forge closer ties with China's neighbors(Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam) and the middle east countries. India has already fallen behind China when it comes to "recruiting" our neighbors. We have lost out in Bangladesh and the more Eastern states. Pakistan was always out of our reach but with the construction of gwadar port China and Pakistan severely threaten the Indian Economy in the event of war. Especially if it is war with China then they can effectively blockade our oil supplies and literally starve us to death. We need to stay a step ahead of this.

    [​IMG]

    As you can see from the picture the port is at the very "edge" of Pakistan and is placed strategically at the entrance of the Gulf. The port is also very deep and is naturally suited to be a deep water harbor. Pakistan if it so chooses with China's help of course can station a couple of Attack Subs there and in the event of war can cripple India.

    We need to stay a step ahead of this...India has already secured permission from Iran to use Iranian bases in case of war with Pakistan but we also need to expand.
    In the worst case scenario, if war with China breaks out and Pakistan jumps in on their side which they most probably will and they also manage to neutralize Indian Naval threat we still have an ace up our sleeve.

    [​IMG]

    Pakistan and China share a land border in Jammu and Kashmir and as such any ground transportation of Oil would require them to traverse over steep mountains and gorges. Given India's air superiority over pakistan it can be feasible that china would be not willing to allow the flow of precious oil under such duress. To transport large quantities of Oil, they still have to rely on the Ocean and this is where India's coastline comes into the picture. We obviously need to have a stronger naval presence in the Indian Ocean whereby we can stop this flow. However, given China's vast naval expansion we must also start thinking about our ability to defend our coastline and more importantly we need to move the battlefield away from the subcontinent and into a more strategic location.We need to start to seriously think about stationing our naval ships in ports in Iran(India helped Iran to "build" a port) and a even better location would be Oman...this would be a killer blow to any possible Chinese aggression as a port that deep into the middle east would allow us to virtually control the flow of Oil to China and pakistan and would render Gwadar and the its benefits virtually useless.

    To be continued.....


    p.s. I will be re posting this under the strategy section...the other parts will also be found there.
     
  5. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    so a pipeline would difficult it would have to go thru superhigh mountains and rough terrain and temperatures.
     
  6. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    yes that is right...and also given the fact that it is in close proximity to Afghanistan controlled by the northern alliance, who India has helped for a long time would make china think twice about putting in something like that a spitting distance away from two potentially hostile countries. Also, lets not forget that those northern regions aren't really under the control of pakistan, albeit terrorists are not gonna sabotage the war effort. However any Western country can strike targets deep in POK in the name of protecting their national security. It would be impossible to transport the necessary Crude oil by air and therefore the only feasible option is to transport it on a ship...
     
  7. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    also if India was involved the Russians were willing to build who would build now and considering all the factors it would be much more expensive and take a lot longer,better to go over land by trucks.
     
  8. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KB26Df01.html

    Zardari draws a blank from China visit
    By Syed Fazl-e-Haider

    QUETTA, Pakistan - Asif Ali Zardari, president of cash-strapped Pakistan, has returned home from Beijing for the second time in a few months virtually empty-handed, without any commitment from China for aid.

    During his first visit as president last October, Zardari failed to secure financial support from Beijing to stave off a balance of payments crisis, with the Chinese government rebuffing a request for concessional loans.

    This time, the two countries signed cooperation agreements for hydropower generation and agriculture development, but there was no firm commitment from Beijing about writing off some of


    Islamabad's debt or extending additional aid.

    Zardari's four-day visit, which included trips to Hubei province and Shanghai, overlapped with and was overshadowed by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's visit to the Chinese capital.

    After China's rebuff in October, Pakistan reluctantly reached agreement with the International Monetary Fund on a US$7.6 billion loan facility, which in turn paved the way for Beijing to grant $500 million in loans. That compares with the estimated $14 billion some economists say is needed to get Pakistan back on its feet.

    "China has been providing help, within its own capability, to Pakistan's economic and social development," AP quoted Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu as saying last week.

    Even so, Pakistan's financial distress and worsening internal security may be cooling China's perception of its neighbor.

    "Instead of increasing assistance to its old ally, Beijing has apparently been keeping a distance from Islamabad," Time magazine reported last week.

    "Pakistan today needs China more than China needs Pakistan - that is why there is more enthusiasm in Pakistan about its relations with China than vice-versa," the magazine quoted Shabbir Cheema, director of the Asia-Pacific Governance and Democracy Initiative, as saying.

    While economic issues were at the heart of Zardari's visit, it took place in the shadow of the intensifying US "war on terror" in Afghanistan, also involving Pakistan's western border areas, and amid continuing questions on Pakistan's involvement in terrorist attacks in India's financial center, Mumbai, last November.

    In a telephone conversation with President Hu Jintao on Tuesday, Zardari thanked him for China's support to Pakistan's stance on the Mumbai incident, over which Islamabad has had to fend of Indian charges of complicity. The two leaders agreed to work together to build a strong economic and political partnership.

    "The visit assumes significance as Islamabad had given a blank check to China to intercede on its behalf with India on the Mumbai terror attacks," Press Trust of India reported.

    Zardari sought during his latest visit to highlight the benefits his country offered China. In an interview with Chinese media, he said companies based in central China would gain from trading through Pakistani ports, which are nearer to the sea than their own country's ports such as Shanghai and Hong Kong.

    "We will encourage Chinese companies to come to Pakistan as Pakistan is geo-strategically located and provides them access to the rest of the world through our warm waters," Associated Press of Pakistan quoted Zardari as saying.

    The two sides agreed that establishing trans-border economic zones and a Pakistan-China rail link would go a long way in strengthening the relationship between the two countries.

    Pakistan wants "to initiate rail links as well in addition to existing road and sea links". Pakistan Press International quoted Zardari as saying. Addressing Chinese heads of major financial institutions and banks, he said the government would also provide maximum support to Chinese investors to enhance links between the two countries. The opening of branches by Chinese banks in Pakistan, would further expand financial interaction.

    "We also have a free-trade agreement with China and hope to finalize a trade agreement in services shortly", China Daily reported Zardari as saying. "Once we get our economic fundamentals right we can be a useful economic partner, a significant market and a profitable destination for investment." Pakistan is the first country with which China has signed a free trade agreement (FTA). The first phase of an FTA in goods and investment was completed last July.

    Investment by China and provision of easier access for Pakistani goods into the Chinese market could help boost trade between the two countries. Last year, bilateral trade volume rose a mere 1.3% to $6.9 billion.

    Zardari acknowledged the assistance China has already given to his country.

    "China has helped Pakistan’s economic development. Chinese assistance and enterprise has been invaluable in areas as diverse as construction of nuclear power plants to dams, roads and industrial estates. The port of Gwadar on Pakistan's Arabian Sea coast is a testament to China’s friendship with Pakistan," he said.

    At the mouth of the Persian Gulf and opposite the Strait of Hormuz, Gwadar port is being funded and built by China and is intended to serve as a corridor for energy, cargo and services between Central Asia, the Gulf and other surrounding regions. Islamabad has awarded the US$70 million construction contract for an international airport at Gwadar to China Harbour Engineering Company. Under a memorandum of understanding signed during Zardari's latest visit, the Chinese company is to support the National Dredging Corporation of Pakistan in its dredging work - silting is a considerable problem at, for example, Gwadar.

    Over 3,000 Chinese nationals have their presence in Pakistan, and concern is rising over their safety given the increased numbers of terrorist incidents in the country, which has included the deaths of Chinese engineers involved in the Gwadar port project.

    "Terrorists have specifically targeted some of our Chinese friends who were working in Pakistan to drive a wedge between the two countries and peoples," China Daily quoted Zardari as saying. "The sacrifice of these Chinese citizens for Pakistan’s cause is an abiding reminder to us Pakistanis of China's friendship with our country."

    Zardari identified possible areas of co-operation between Pakistan and China in hybrid seed development and other agriculture technology such as water management and use of solar technology, Business Recorder reported, citing a statement by the Pakistan Embassy in China.

    Under a joint breeding programme, China’s Hubei Seed Group will transfer germplasm technology to boost productivity of hybrid rice. Pakistani scientists will also be trained in agronomy and oilseed production.

    The two sides also signed an agreement under which China will provide technical assistance to Pakistan in hydro-power generation. Zardari visited the Three Gorges Dam, the world’s largest dam.

    "Pakistan has not benefited to the extent that it should from its relations with China. We would like China to help us in the construction of a dam similar to this one," Associated Press of Pakistan quoted the Pakistani president as saying.

    Syed Fazl-e-Haider, [email protected], is a Quetta-based development analyst in Pakistan. He is the author of six books, including The Economic Development of Balochistan, published in May 2004.

    (Copyright 2009 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)
     
  9. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-uighurs23-2009feb23,0,3812737.story


    Free the Uighurs

    It's time to untie the legal knot keeping 17 Chinese Muslim dissidents at Guantanamo.
    February 23, 2009

    Abetting the unfairness of the U.S. treatment of inmates at the Guantanamo Bay detention center, a federal appeals court has ruled that the government may continue to imprison 17 Chinese Muslims even though it no longer considers them enemy combatants. Fortunately, the Obama administration has the authority to cut through the legal knot created by the decision and release the prisoners and allow them to be resettled in the United States

    The detainees are Uighurs, a minority of Turkic origin living in western China. They were taken to Guantanamo in 2002 after being captured in Pakistan, where they had relocated after receiving firearms training in Afghanistan related, they said, to their resistance to Chinese oppression. Once it was clear that their continued imprisonment was unnecessary, the Bush administration tried to persuade some nation other than China -- where they might have faced persecution -- to accept them, but that task was complicated by the reluctance of several countries to alienate Beijing. Meanwhile, the Uighurs languish in what passes for luxury accommodations at Guantanamo.

    A federal judge ruled in October that, given the government's failure to relocate them, the Uighurs must be released and allowed to remain in the United States. The government appealed the decision to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, and last week the court decided that the judiciary couldn't approve the release because immigration decisions are the preserve of Congress and the president. Sympathy for the Uighurs' long confinement, Senior Judge Arthur Raymond Randolph wrote for the three-judge panel, isn't "a legal basis for upsetting settled law and overriding the prerogatives of the political branches."

    Judge Judith W. Rogers, while concluding that the lower court acted prematurely in ordering the Uighurs' release, rejected Randolph's assertion that courts have no power to order that aliens be allowed to remain in this country. Alluding to a 2008 Supreme Court decision granting Guantanamo inmates the right to challenge their confinement by seeking writs of habeas corpus, Rogers insisted that "the power to grant the writ means the power to order release." The implication was that if the U.S. couldn't safely transfer non-dangerous detainees to another country, they must be given their freedom in this one.

    Actually, the law isn't that clear. In its 2008 ruling, the high court stopped short of requiring that a successful habeas corpus petition result in a prisoner's release, let alone his remaining in the United States.

    The justices might consider that issue in the future, but even under the appeals court decision, there is a way to redress this injustice. President Obama, who has been adamant about ending abuses at Guantanamo, can order Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr. to grant political asylum to the 17 Uighur detainees. That would accomplish what the appeals court refused to order: just compensation for their ordeal.
     
  10. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    China is a lot more complex entity than that.

    Here is something to chew on. A bit lengthy but quite interesting.

     
  11. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Part 2 Continued...

     
  12. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Part 3 continued

     
  13. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Concluding part:

    http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/geopolitics_china
     
  14. Triton

    Triton Founding Member

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    Chinese Navy ship arrives at Pakistani port for multinational exercises

     
  15. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    China begins designing nuclear reactors for Pak

    8 Mar 2009, 1832 hrs IST, Saibal Dasgupta, TNN

    BEIJING: China has begun designing two more nuclear reactors for Pakistan, which will come up at its Chashma Nuclear Power Complex. The decision
    came soon after Pakistani president Asif Ali Zardari's visit to China in the last week of February.

    The state-run Shanghai Nuclear Engineering Research & Design Institute has announced that it began designing the third and forth generators for the complex on March 1. The new reactors will have a capacity of 325 mw each.

    China has already built one reactors at Chashma and is in the process of putting up a second one, which will be installed in 2009-2010. The first reactor in the complex, located in Pakistan's Punjab province, was attached to the country's power grid in 2000.

    The Institute said it had recently taken up improvement on the first reactor, which is now in the process of being reinstalled. The two reactors were attached to the country's power grid in year 2000.

    The announcement shows that Zardari's visit went far beyond the official claim that it was focussed on gaining a first hand knowledge of China's water resources and hydroelectricity systems. It is not clear whether Zardari, who skipped Beijing during his five-day tour, had visited the Shanghai Institute.

    Another Chinese company, Shanxi Diesel Engine Heavy Industry Co. Ltd, has produced the emergency diesel generation system for nuclear power plants in Pakistan after official inspections. A third Chinese company, China Zhongyuan Engineering Corp. is the general contractor for the plants.

    Reports in the Pakistani media suggested that Islamabad is expecting Beijing to fund 85 per cent of the construction cost for the third and fourth reactors in the form of suppliers' credit. The country's public sector development program for 2008-09 had set the cost of the third and fourth reactors at $1.61 billion.

    There is no confirmation from the Chinese side that Beijing has agreed to finance the two new reactors.


    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...nuke-reactors-for-Pak/articleshow/4241728.cms
     
  16. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    I thought USA and NSG and IAEA said no? Thanks China for killing the NPT.
     
  17. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    China is providing Pakistan with the necessary resources required to fight the Taliban effectively. Like nuclear reactors... Using these reactors he can create more nuclear bombs which will be a threat to the Taliban and can be used very effectively to contain and defeat the Taliban....

    How could you doubt China's intentions ???

    Go wash your head out with soap !!! ;;);;);;);;)

    :D:D:D:D:D
     
  18. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    As far as trade is concerned why India would have any objection on Pakistan and chines "NEXUS' ?. if local manufacturers are suffering because of china then the same time common man in Pakistan may be benefiting from cheap chines goods.

    I think Thread starter wants to discuss Pakistan-china nexus on defense and its effects on Indian security.

    China being permanent member of UN security council is ''shareaam'' bullying and proliferating nuclear arms to Pakistan.
     
  19. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    One side Pakistanis shows in foreign lands as Indian and on other side Chinese manufacturing as "Made in India" this is serious attempt to malign India's image on the other side Chinese are sh1t scared of India

    Chinese passing off fake drugs as ?Made in India?

    Nigeria: Nafdac Seizes N32 Million Fake Anti-Malarial Drugs

     

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