China-Pak nuclear deal: US asks for Pak-China nuke arrangement details

Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,880
Likes
48,578
Country flag
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/06/04/the_breach?page=0,1

The Breach

China is about to break important international rules designed to prevent nuclear proliferation. Can Beijing be stopped?

The Breach
China is about to break important international rules designed to prevent nuclear proliferation. Can Beijing be stopped?
BY MARK HIBBS | JUNE 4, 2010

In the coming weeks, China is expected to announce that it intends to export two nuclear-power reactors to Pakistan. The move would breach international protocol about the trade of nuclear equipment and material. Once the deal is officially confirmed, the spotlight won't be on either Beijing or Islamabad; it will be on Washington, which concluded a watershed nuclear agreement with India in 2008. That deal is the precedent that has opened the door for China -- creating an awkward test for a U.S. administration greatly concerned about the risks of nuclear proliferation.

China's announcement will overstep the guidelines of the 46-country Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), which bar nuclear commerce between Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) members like China and nonmember states like Pakistan. It will leave U.S. President Barack Obama with two options: He can either oppose the transaction and request that China leave the NSG, or grudgingly accept the Chinese exports. As of last week, when U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton met with Chinese leaders in Beijing for the three-day U.S.-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue, the United States was strongly leaning toward the latter.

If the White House does choose to grin and bear the China-Pakistan deal, it will have compelling reasons for doing so. The United States has a lot on its plate with China right now. It wants Chinese help on U.N. Security Council sanctions against Iran, a greater Chinese effort to rein in North Korea, and a significant revaluation of China's currency vis-à-vis the U.S. dollar. But more importantly, the United States made its own NSG rule-suspending nuclear deal with India in 2008. Beijing could have blocked the NSG exemption for India, but accommodated the pressure of the United States and its allies on this issue. Now, the bill is coming due as Islamabad demands equal treatment. It would be reasonable for China to expect reciprocity from the United States in the NSG, given that it was Washington that started changing the rules.

Indeed, since joining the group in 2004, China has played according to the NSG's voluntary rules, despite a long tradition of nuclear collaboration with Pakistan. Upon joining, Beijing informed the group of its existing civil nuclear agreement with Pakistan, which Beijing said committed China to build the Chashma-2 power reactor now scheduled to be finished next year. Since 2004, Pakistan has enlisted China to supply it with two additional power reactors, Chashma-3 and -4. Beijing hasn't obliged, but now that U.S., French, Japanese, and Russian firms are poised to sell nuclear equipment to India, China is finally prepared to press the issue.

A number of NPT countries are watching all this with alarm. At last month's NPT Review Conference, they referred to the U.S.-India deal as a dangerous precedent. States that export nuclear equipment, they worried, would feel emboldened to brush aside rules meant to reward NPT membership with nuclear-trade privileges. The U.S.-India deal is also still lamented as a missed opportunity; had India agreed to sign the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty as a condition of the NSG exemption, for example, it would have taken a major step to de-escalate nuclear competition in South Asia. (It also would have blunted much of the resentment the deal and exemption touched off among many of the NPT's nonnuclear-weapon states.)

Instead, here's where we are now: China is prepared to take advantage of the opening created by the United States and India to move forward on its nuclear deal with Pakistan. Because the NSG guidelines are voluntary and not legally binding, critical group members cannot prevent the transaction. Still, China knows that it faces international criticism if it goes through with the export to Pakistan, so the timing of its announcement is crucial. China chose not to formally announce its plans before the NPT Review Conference closed last month. Instead, the matter might be raised during an annual NSG plenary meeting to be held in New Zealand in late June.

If that happens and China looks set to move forward with the trade, all is not lost. Rather than remaining formally silent or issuing a paper démarche expressing regret about China's move, the United States could call upon China and Pakistan to provide a significant nonproliferation benefit as part of the transaction -- of the sort the U.S.-India deal failed to include. For example, both countries could together open the road to negotiation of a Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty, which would halt production of highly enriched uranium and plutonium for weapons worldwide. Right now, Pakistan is blocking negotiations at the U.N. Conference on Disarmament in Geneva, citing the U.S.-India deal and the NSG exemption for India. Many NSG states think that China -- the only one of the NPT's five nuclear-weapons states never to have declared a moratorium on producing fissile material for nuclear weapons -- stands behind Pakistan in holding up the negotiations.

A more modest but practicable step would be for China and Pakistan to cooperate in improving the security of the latter's nuclear installations, materials, and other assets. Doing so would force China to engage more directly in solving nonproliferation problems in South Asia at a time when Islamabad has become resentful and suspicious of Washington's efforts to secure Pakistan's nuclear infrastructure. This should not trouble the United States: Historically, China has a far more trusting relationship with Pakistan in the nuclear area, and since the late 1980s, Washington and Beijing have worked through bilateral nonproliferation issues concerning Chinese nuclear ties to Pakistan and have brought into force a bilateral nuclear-cooperation agreement on the basis of which U.S. industry is now deeply involved in China's civilian nuclear-energy program.

If the NSG countries press for such nuclear security and nonproliferation action, however, China may well push back, for example by claiming that India would surely object to its greater involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. But such regional sensitivities didn't stop India from forging a nuclear alliance with the United States in 2008 despite its knowledge that Washington had done the nuclear deal as part of a strategic realignment aimed at challenging Beijing.

There will also be critics in the United States. Surely, many will argue, China will fall short in improving Pakistan's nuclear security, given the lack of success had by the United States, Japan, Russia, and South Korea in convincing Chinese leaders to pressure North Korea to abandon its nuclear-weapons program. But China didn't meet those expectations for a specific reason: its strategic interest in keeping the peninsula divided and its border with the North at ease. Boosting nuclear security in Pakistan, however, would clearly and directly improve China's own security. China shares the U.S. goal of eliminating terrorism. Loose nukes in Pakistan could end up in the hands of Chinese irredentists and separatists.

So, if China refuses to halt the exports to Pakistan, should Washington push to kick Beijing out of the NSG? No. At a time when the country has become the world's biggest nuclear beehive, a China outside the suppliers group would be free to ignore the concerns of the United States and other nuclear exporters.

Sixty percent of the reactors under construction in the world today are in China. Chinese industry is investing billions of dollars to make equipment for these and future units, and then find new export markets, including in developing countries. U.S. regulators have already warned their Chinese counterparts that without China's cooperation, unfettered exports of substandard equipment made in China could imperil the safety of the world's nuclear installations. Outside the NSG, China might in the future not be restrained from exporting sensitive technology if the country establishes itself as a major hub for reprocessing and plutonium-fuels production. With China outside the NSG, the United States and other NSG states would find it harder to get Beijing to strictly implement nuclear export controls. In the worst case, a China adrift from the global nuclear-trade regime could become the future center of a nuclear black market.

But keeping China in the NSG doesn't mean letting Beijing off the hook. NSG members should push hard to ensure that significant nonproliferation benefits accrue from the China-Pakistan deal. Simply acquiescing would seal the group's lack of credibility as the world's nuclear-trade gatekeeper. Firm resolve by the United States and other NSG states, on the other hand, would alert China that it will have to think about more than just its commercial interests in exporting nuclear equipment
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,880
Likes
48,578
Country flag
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...Pakistan-nuclear-deal/articleshow/6080323.cms

India to turn heat on China-Pakistan nuclear deal

NEW DELHI: With US and other members of the Nuclear Supplies Group appearing unlikely to block China's attempt to reward Pakistan with nuclear reactors, India has decided to work on its own to organize resistance to the Beijing-Islamabad deal.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh will use a bilateral meeting with Canadian PM Stephen Harper this weekend to convey "concerns" about China's proposal to build new nuclear reactors for its "all-weather friend".

Singh will be in Toronto for the G-20 summit, as well as to sign a civil nuclear agreement with Canada. Canada is the world's largest supplier of uranium, which India is in dire need of.

While the reactor deal was done a couple of months ago, it's only now, with signs that NSG does not have the appetite for a feud with China on the issue, that India is slowly building up a diplomatic move on the issue. However, there will be no public lobbying against the Pakistan deal. India is expected to make quiet representations with "friends". "We will air concerns," said sources.

When asked, foreign secretary Nirupama Rao told journalists on Tuesday that India was not a member of the NSG, but was "closely monitoring" the debate.

Interestingly, Harper will be meeting Chinese president Hu Jintao in a bilateral meeting before the summit, while the India meeting is scheduled for after. Hu will expect to be complimented for allowing the Chinese currency yuan to be more flexible. This has been a major concern among the world's big economies, including India.

Singh is also expected to have a bilateral meeting with Hu on the margins of the summit, his first after China announced its nuclear deal with Pakistan. His last meeting with the Chinese president was in April on the sidelines of the BRIC summit in Brasilia. It's not yet known whether India will take up this issue.

The India-Canada nuclear deal will be the latest in a series of civil nuclear agreements that India has been signing with key countries in the wake of the India-US nuclear deal. It will allow Canadian companies to export and import "controlled" nuclear materials, equipment and technology to and from India. In effect, this brings India's nuclear history full circle. In 1974, Canada accused India of conducting its first nuclear test with Canadian nuclear materials that were supposed to be for peaceful uses.

Sources said the China-Pakistan nuclear lovefest has been on a high over the past few years. Conscious that frequent interactions between Pakistanis and Chinese in the nuclear field might raise eyebrows, the two countries who have a long-shared nuclear history, even kept part of their collaborations under the aegis of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

By engaging in IAEA-blessed activities related to safety, extraction, etc, the two countries have been able to get their scientists together for intensive engagement, with little oversight on what knowhow was actually being passed on to Pakistan. Diplomats monitoring such activity between China and Pakistan say this cooperation has ramped up significantly in the past couple of years.

Briefing journalists, Vivek Katju, secretary (west) in MEA, said India and Canada were working on a slew of other agreements on science and technology, health, agriculture and culture. He said a number of agreements and MoUs were under active negotiation and likely to be concluded and signed during the PM's visit. These included civil nuclear energy cooperation, social security, mining, higher education and culture, he said.

Last week, the Canadian government issued a report on the Kanishka disaster which indicted the Canadian system for numerous lapses. Asked about the report, Katju said pointedly that India had determined that "the extremism which led to the tragedy was not given 'sufficient' attention before or after the disaster".
 

SHASH2K2

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,711
Likes
730
NEW DELHI: The proposed China-Pakistan nuclear deal could spell trouble for India's own membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group, severely upsetting the calculations of the government here.

India had hoped that the New Zealand plenary meeting scheduled for later this week might move the process along for India to be eventually recognized as a formal member of the group.

India had told the NSG that following the Indo-US nuclear deal, its laws and regulations had been harmonized with the global body, and that it was ready to be a member of the group. This was emphasized by the government in its last meeting with the NSG troika earlier this year.

Instead, there is a growing anger, albeit impotent, within the 45-member group as they confront a virtual fait accompli by China "informing" them of its decision to build two new nuclear reactors for Pakistan, a proliferation rogue. But such is the growing clout of China internationally that, Indian officials say, there is a lot of grumbling, but little outright opposition. The US so far is the only country to openly oppose the proposed arrangement, but that too happened after the Iran sanctions vote in the UN Security Council, where China's cooperation was crucial. France, sources said, is likely to raise its own objections at the NSG meeting later this week.

China is unlikely to ask for a full waiver for Pakistan from the NSG, along the lines of the India deal. That would require a huge amount of political investment of the kind the US made for India. Instead, China is likely to push these two reactors through under a kind of diplomatic amnesia because there is a paper trail that says only two reactors in Pakistan had been "grandfathered" by China. With China becoming more muscular in international politics, this kind of a "thin-end-of-the-wedge" kind of deal might just go through.

Of course, the Indian government is readying its own diplomatic initiative against the proposed deal -- but quietly, mainly working with "friends" in Europe, many of whom batted for India during its own deal. Openly, India has not yet revealed its hand, and is still squeamish about coming out against the deal, given it is not a member of the NSG and its own deal is virtually hot off the press. Therefore, India will wait for the NSG to take a view this week.

During the recent visit of President Pratibha Patil to China, the Indians used the formal banquet to tell Chinese foreign minister Yang Jiechi that the deal would be a very bad idea. Yang's response was textbook -- the Pakistan deal was peaceful and under IAEA safeguards. India has desisted from a formal objection to the Pak deal.

A lot of the anger of countries like Austria, Ireland and the Scandinavian countries against the China-Pakistan deal is directed against India. "You opened a Pandora's box," many countries have said accusingly. India received a country-specific waiver from the NSG in 2008 for nuclear commerce, but it was a bitter pill for many countries for whom the existing non-proliferation regime is a national mantra, including, ironically New Zealand, where the China-Pak deal is likely to be discussed.

But there is little appreciation for India's line that its nuclear deal was a reward for an unblemished record in non-proliferation, and that India was a class apart from Pakistan.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,880
Likes
48,578
Country flag
Maybe India should just wait and watch this will just turn out to be a bigger mess for the nuclear oligarchy. These reactors will still be under IAEA safeguards and there is no avenue for fuel delivery from this deal.
 

SHASH2K2

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,711
Likes
730
Maybe India should just wait and watch this will just turn out to be a bigger mess for the nuclear oligarchy. These reactors will still be under IAEA safeguards and there is no avenue for fuel delivery from this deal.
I think USA will not be very aggressive in opposing due to Afghan issue . We should take it very seriously and try our level best to scuttle it in NSG. Its high time our action should follow our word and requirement. We have to stop our habit of accepting thing the way they are . We need to make things happen.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,880
Likes
48,578
Country flag
I think USA will not be very aggressive in opposing due to Afghan issue . We should take it very seriously and try our level best to scuttle it in NSG. Its high time our action should follow our word and requirement. We have to stop our habit of accepting thing the way they are . We need to make things happen.
I don't think Chinese are stupid enough to go this far for the deal without having
the ok from USA from the beginning.Cut down on trade with China with soft loans to
Pakistan they make nothing with us let's cut the 50-60 billion in trade down to 5-10 billion,
it may not matter much to China anyway since they are such a rich country.
 
Last edited:

ajtr

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
12,038
Likes
723
I'm compelled to look this drama from another angle.I see indo-usa nuke deal as first step to CRE(Cap,Rollback,Eleminate) nuke program in south asia.And china-pak deal is 2nd step towards CRE.three situations will occur...
1. india/pak will be forced to sign all nuke treaties.
2.If not pak deal will go through despite indian protestation.
3.India-usa deal will be canceled.

Its the equal equal game played out at NSG meeting by 46 member countries for india and pakistan.some of these countries like newzealand etc were vociferous against indian deal in 2008 now why they are silent now not even a squeak from them....
 

SHASH2K2

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,711
Likes
730
I don't think Chinese are stupid enough to go this far for the deal without having the ok from USA from the beginning.
they want to prove 2 things.
1. they want to prove to Pakistan that we are there to protect their interest and prestige globally.
2. they want to prove a point to USA that they are their also in playground and trying to play pakistan card to humiliate India.

They know that USA will not be very active in opposing it as USA need Pakistan to tackle Talibans.
 
Last edited:

nrj

Ambassador
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
9,658
Likes
3,911
Country flag
Maybe India should just wait and watch this will just turn out to be a bigger mess for the nuclear oligarchy. These reactors will still be under IAEA safeguards and there is no avenue for fuel delivery from this deal.
That would be the best thing to do right now. Whatever has been planned will not succeed any soon.

However, I wonder how EU members will have no problem with this deal. The proliferation this deal will involve between Pak-China should give them sleepless nights. China can use these puppet terrorists organizations any time to bring EU to ground zero. With US withdrawing forces in coming years, how can EU stay silent? Or they are super-confident about Obama's Missile shield BS? This proliferation should alarm entire Europe to come out of US cab & take some stand on their own.

IMVO this deal is equally or more hazardous to Europe like India.
 
Last edited:

SHASH2K2

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,711
Likes
730
I'm compelled to look this drama from another angle.I see indo-usa nuke deal as first step to CRE(Cap,Rollback,Eleminate) nuke program in south asia.And china-pak deal is 2nd step towards CRE.three situations will occur...
1. india/pak will be forced to sign all nuke treaties.
2.If not pak deal will go through despite indian protestation.
3.India-usa deal will be canceled.
Its the equal equal game played out at NSG meeting by 46 member countries for india and pakistan.some of these countries like newzealand etc were vociferous against indian deal in 2008 now why they are silent now not even a squeak from them....
I think all deals signed by India are approved by IAEA so we should not have any problems in operating those plants. moreover there is too much of money involved in this Indian deal so USA ,France and Russia will put all weight behind Indian deal at least.
If Indian deal fails it will be a big victory for China and embarrassment for America. Uncle Sam will not let that happen.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,880
Likes
48,578
Country flag
they want to prove 2 things.
1. they want to prove to Pakistan that we are there to protect their interest and prestige globally.
2. they want to prove a point to USA that they are their also in playground and trying to play pakistan card to humiliate India.

They know that USA will not be very active in opposing it as USA need china to tackle Talibans.
They will prove more to USA
1. They have more influence in Pakistan than USA does
2.They have more influence in NSG than USA does
3. USA is a declining power China's has risen above USA's status
4. USA has not been able to stop Chinese proliferation in the past and will not be able to in the future

To India it's the same old tune why would be humiliating when this proliferation started 20 years ago??
 

SHASH2K2

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,711
Likes
730
They will prove more to USA
1. They have more influence in Pakistan than USA does
2.They have more influence in NSG than USA does
3. USA is a declining power China's has risen above USA's status
4. USA has not been able to stop Chinese proliferation in the past and will not be able to in the future

To India it's the same old tune why would be humiliating when this proliferation started 20 years ago??
respectfully I beg to differ from 2nd and 3rd points. China is a big competitor but has not surpassed USA influence yet. I dont know the future but present in still in USA favour.
 

nrj

Ambassador
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
9,658
Likes
3,911
Country flag
I'm compelled to look this drama from another angle.I see indo-usa nuke deal as first step to CRE(Cap,Rollback,Eleminate) nuke program in south asia.And china-pak deal is 2nd step towards CRE.three situations will occur...
1. india/pak will be forced to sign all nuke treaties.
2.If not pak deal will go through despite indian protestation.
3.India-usa deal will be canceled.

Its the equal equal game played out at NSG meeting by 46 member countries for india and pakistan.some of these countries like newzealand etc were vociferous against indian deal in 2008 now why they are silent now not even a squeak from them....

I agree with the view to some extent. But, how other NSG members can just let it happen for signatures on some outdated papers? Its not some conventional power dealing, we are talking about Nuke materials here.

Monitoring what comes in & what gos out will be under IAEA but the proliferation will surely happen on larger scale. How can other NSG members feel safe during exchange of most-destructive materials between a terrorism supported failed state & a communist power waiting for just a chance to put globe under its toes? This has more to do with Global security than Indian Nuke deal. The world already knows that India will not succumb to any pressure signing a treaty that differs from its sovereignty declarations.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,880
Likes
48,578
Country flag
respectfully I beg to differ from 2nd and 3rd points. China is a big competitor but has not surpassed USA influence yet. I dont know the future but present in still in USA favour.
This is a test for USA if they fail then these points will be true. Just proposing something like this is, is a slap in the face for USA and makes a mockery out of agreements with USA that nations may have. I am sure nations like Japan and South Korea are taking note.
 

ajtr

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
12,038
Likes
723
I agree with the view to some extent. But, how other NSG members can just let it happen for signatures on some outdated papers? Its not some conventional power dealing, we are talking about Nuke materials here.

Monitoring what comes in & what gos out will be under IAEA but the proliferation will surely happen on larger scale. How can other NSG members feel safe during exchange of most-destructive materials between a terrorism supported failed state & a communist power waiting for just a chance to put globe under its toes? This has more to do with Global security than Indian Nuke deal. The world already knows that India will not succumb to any pressure signing a treaty that differs from its sovereignty declarations.
Its a sort of drama being played out at NSG meeting to the prepared script.I think USA has already given go ahead to china on this deal.USA is only protesting for the sake of it.Remember this deal was announced right around the time when there were negotiations going on for iran sanctions and this deal usa dangled as carrot to chinese.Only country who get hoodwinked again here is india.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,880
Likes
48,578
Country flag
I'm compelled to look this drama from another angle.I see indo-usa nuke deal as first step to CRE(Cap,Rollback,Eleminate) nuke program in south asia.And china-pak deal is 2nd step towards CRE.three situations will occur...

3.India-usa deal will be canceled.
India USA nuclear deal is just one deal even if it is cancelled it will make little to no difference since India has deals with atleast 8-10 other nations. USA -India has been on ice since Obama came to power and will probably stay that way for long time??
 

nrj

Ambassador
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
9,658
Likes
3,911
Country flag
Its a sort of drama being played out at NSG meeting to the prepared script.I think USA has already given go ahead to china on this deal.USA is only protesting for the sake of it.Remember this deal was announced right around the time when there were negotiations going on for iran sanctions and this deal usa dangled as carrot to chinese.Only country who get hoodwinked again here is india.
So in this whole cross dealing between US-China, India & Europe will pay heavily? I dont think Russia will take any stand, they'll keep eye on business only. EU & India must wake up.

India will never sign CTBT, so NSG members can forget that. In the heightened tensions, they just might see ICBM tests followed by another Smiling Buddha.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,880
Likes
48,578
Country flag
Its a sort of drama being played out at NSG meeting to the prepared script.I think USA has already given go ahead to china on this deal.USA is only protesting for the sake of it.Remember this deal was announced right around the time when there were negotiations going on for iran sanctions and this deal usa dangled as carrot to chinese.Only country who get hoodwinked again here is india.
I tend to agree with you on some of these points. I think maybe an Indian -Chinese nuclear deal may eveen be possible after this drama ends, give some deals that USA were going to get to China or maybe some other less strategic nuclear buisness it would be a brilliant move.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,880
Likes
48,578
Country flag
So in this whole cross dealing between US-China, India & Europe will pay heavily? I dont think Russia will take any stand, they'll keep eye on business only. EU & India must wake up.

India will never sign CTBT, so NSG members can forget that. In the heightened tensions, they just might see ICBM tests followed by another Smiling Buddha.

Under a different government possibly but not with Sonia running the show.
 

ajtr

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
12,038
Likes
723
India USA nuclear deal is just one deal even if it is cancelled it will make little to no difference since India has deals with atleast 8-10 other nations. USA -India has been on ice since Obama came to power and will probably stay that way for long time??
Well it can sure be roll backed through same nsg and IAEA.or is it that i'm on different page???
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top