China not-so-secretly fumes & frets as India, Japan bond

[kseeker]

So , China did not claim the Moon, right?

Yup, at least at present we don't have any credible evidence to prove that!

 

[CCP]

It is a game trying to get on top ...... various strategies are used in this. China will try to use Pakistan and India will try to counter it. Every one tries to neutralize the immediate threat the are facing.

that is the process of bargaining.

 

[CCP]

Yup, at least at present we don't have any credible evidence to prove that!

Thank you!

 

[Srinivas_K]

that is the process of bargaining.

It is called hard bargaining it is a tough and intense game to play.

 

[Tolaha]

Dont know if China is "not-so-secretly fuming", but the whole of CCP online brigade is farting over here!

Chinese dont seem to have handled the coming presence of the Japanese in our North East in a mature way. Too naive of them to think that their entry in POK will not have repercussions! Similar to their logic that arming Pakistan with nukes wont have any repercussions! Being eternally optimistic, I'd like to keep saying that the best is yet to come!

 

[bose]

what essence?

Old wine in new bottle ??

 

[Tolaha]

Dont know if China is "not-so-secretly fuming", but the whole of CCP online brigade is farting over here!

Chinese dont seem to have handled the coming presence of the Japanese in our North East in a mature way. Too naive of them to think that their entry in POK will not have repercussions! Similar to their logic that arming Pakistan with nukes wont have any repercussions! Being eternally optimistic, I'd like to keep saying that the best is yet to come!

Just so that we dont forget everyone, this is the year of friendship between India and China! India Cheena bhai bhai!

 

[DivineHeretic]

Dont know if China is "not-so-secretly fuming", but the whole of CCP online brigade is farting over here!

Chinese dont seem to have handled the coming presence of the Japanese in our North East in a mature way. Too naive of them to think that their entry in POK will not have repercussions! Similar to their logic that arming Pakistan with nukes wont have any repercussions! Being eternally optimistic, I'd like to keep saying that the best is yet to come!

The whole premise of Chinese coercive diplomacy is hinged on the assumption that they will finger each and every country around it, keeping them unbalanced, while at the same time hoping that these countries will not link up together to form an alliance against it.

The former is being achieved very well by the CCP, in fact almost to the point of defying their own expectations. But it is the later part where they are beginning to fumble, and quite disastrously at that.

The provocations are meant to be a warning to the states not to go against China, lest of all participate in an alliance against it. This requires a very deliberate and careful set of regular provocations, just enough to unhinge the government in question to tow the Chinese line, but at the same time not be threatening to the extent to push them right to the enemy camp.

They obviously got that bit of calculation wrong, and now they are slowly realizing that their moves are going to have a long term impact against them. But then the CCP have an inertia of action, and it will be sometime before the new found reality sinks in deep.

 

[Tolaha]

The provocations are meant to be a warning to the states not to go against China, lest of all participate in an alliance against it. This requires a very deliberate and careful set of regular provocations, just enough to unhinge the government in question to tow the Chinese line, but at the same time not be threatening to the extent to push them right to the enemy camp.

But Sir, the Chinese here at DFI keep claiming that there cannot be a strategic partnership between India and Japan. They say its pointless. Nothing much that India could bring to the table. So news like the ones mentioned below, even if its just for posturing and not a real deal, is something that should not worry our brothers across the Himalayas, isn't it?

India close to buying Japan-made military aircraft in $1.65 billion deal | NDTV.com

 

[Ash]

NEW DELHI, Jan 28 (Reuters) - India is set to become the first country since World War Two to buy a military aircraft from Japan, helping Prime Minister Shinzo Abe dismantle a ban on weapons exports that has kept his country's defence contractors out of foreign markets.

The two countries are in broad agreement on a deal for the ShinMaywa Industries amphibious aircraft, which could amount to as much as $1.65 billion, Indian officials said on Tuesday.

However, several details need to be worked out and negotiations will resume in March on joint production of the plane in India and other issues.

New Delhi is likely to buy at least 15 of the planes, which are priced at about $110 million each, the officials said.

"Its a strategic imperative for both sides, and it has been cleared at the highest levels of the two governments," said an Indian military source.

For the moment, a stripped-down civilian version of the US-2i plane is being offered to India, to get around Japan's self-imposed ban on arms exports. A friend or foe identification system will be removed from the aircraft, another defence official said.

The two countries are discussing assembling the aircraft in India, giving India access to Japanese military technology, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has said.

The plane has a range of over 4,500 km (2,800 miles), which will give it reach far into Southeast Asia from the base where the aircraft are likely to be located, in the Andaman and Nicobar island chain that is near the western tip of Indonesia.

The navy plans to use the Japanese-built plane to support ships on long range missions, the military source said, a role that is increasing as it steps up its profile across the Indian Ocean to counter rival China.

"You are sailing further and further away, and ships break down at sea. You can either wait for reinforcements to arrive by sea or bring in an amphibian right next to the stricken ship," the source said.

The two governments have set up a joint working group that will meet in March to consider plans to either set up a plant in India to assemble it under licence by an Indian state manufacturer.

The plan is to deliver two aircraft and then assemble the rest of the planes with an Indian partner, the military source said.

The deal lays the ground for a broader Japanese thrust into India, the world's biggest arms market dominated for long by Russia but now also buying hardware from Israel and the United States.

"There is a whole amount of defence-related cooperation, between India and Japan," said Gautam Bambawale, an Indian foreign ministry official responsible for East Asia.

"We want Japanese technology, we want Japanese capital investment into India."

WEEKEND TRIP

India's navy is also interested in Japanese patrol vessels and electronic warfare equipment as Tokyo moves further along in easing its ban on military exports, the Indian officials said.

Abe discussed the aircraft deal with Singh during a trip to New Delhi last weekend as ties rapidly warm between the two nations at a time when both are embroiled in territorial disputes with China.

"Our Joint Working Group on US-2 amphibian aircraft has met to explore the modalities of cooperation on its use and co-production in India. More broadly, we are working towards increasing our cooperation in the area of advanced technologies," Singh said.

Abe is seeking a more assertive military and national security posture for Japan, whose post-war constitution, written by U.S.-led occupation forces, renounces war and a standing army.

Abe's government vows to review Japan's ban on weapons exports, a move that could reinvigorate struggling defence contractors like Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd and Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd.

Mitsubishi Heavy is in advanced talks to supply parts for the F-35 stealth fighter to Britain's BAE Systems, in what would be the first involvement of a Japanese manufacturer in a global weapons programme, according to people with knowledge of the discussions.

India is a top market for defence hardware, buying some $12.7 billion in arms during 2007-2011, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), everything from basic military goods to an aircraft carrier.

New Delhi been trying to build up a domestic manufacturing industry and has leaned on foreign suppliers to consider transfer of technology or joint production as a condition for placing orders.

India close to buying Japan-made military aircraft

 

[kickok1975]

...really?

Just consider what he says as a joke

 

[kickok1975]

China has maintained a diplomatic poker face on Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's high-profile India visit. But that has only barely hidden Beijing's bitterness against New Delhi's decision to invite Abe to the chief guest at 65th Republic Day parade at the Capital's grand boulevard, Rajpath, on Sunday.

It is India's decision to reserve the best seat for Abe at the parade on January 26, but academics and strategic analysts told HT that New Delhi better deal with the situation in a sharply nuanced manner.

Abe's warm welcome to India does not entirely unbalance Sino-India ties – beset with the issues of border, water, trade and Pakistan anyway— but does cast a shadow on the tenuous bilateral bond, they said.

"It did not happen at the right time. We cannot ignore this," Lan Jianxue from the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations (CICIR) told HT. With the Communist country's history of violence and occupation with Japan, there probably would never be a right time for India – in China's eyes – to invite home a Japanese leader.

But when Lan indicated that now wasn't the right time, there is added context to it.

Since the middle of 2012, Beijing and Tokyo have been locked in an aggressive diplomatic tussle over the uninhabited Diaoyu (Senkaku in Japanese) islands in the East China Sea. The islands are under Japanese control – it was owned privately before the Japanese government purchased three of them – but China has staked historical claims on it.

But the Sino-Japanese hostility goes back in history to protracted wars and the Japanese occupation of large swathes of China between 1937 and 1945.

China accuses Japan of committing large-scale war crimes on civilians including the slaughtering of hundreds of thousands in the city of Nanjing in eastern China.

And when Abe recently visited the Yasukuni war memorial in Tokyo that houses the remains of the war dead, including that of Japanese generals said to be responsible for massacres in China, Beijing launched its latest salvo of rhetoric.

"Most Chinese may think India's invitation for Abe to attend the Republic Day as the chief guest an offence in terms of the current problems between Beijing and Tokyo, especially Abe's recent pilgrimage to the Yasukuni Shrine. Almost surely, New Delhi's initiative will produce political implications for China's relations with India. And it seems hard to rule out the likelihood of some negative developments in the near-future bilateral relationship," said Zhang Li, Institute of South Asia Studies, Sichuan University.

One of China's leading experts on South Asia, CICIR's Hu Shisheng said Abe's visit might not have a "tangible negative result".

But concerns, HU said remain about military cooperation, joint research, security dialogue and joint military exercises between India and Japan.

Monday, January 27, 2014
By : Hindustan Times

http://www.defencenews.in/defence-news-internal.aspx?get=new&id=8s$$cri3Jrqo=

Old dogs are playing new games. lol

 

[bose]

Why should Chinese think that invitation of Abe is an offence to them ??

Is it not that China played the same with India for last 50 years ??

 

[kseeker]

Old dogs are playing new games. lol

Playing games in their neighbours ground isn't it?

 

[roma]

Many thanks for the great debate going on the past many pages
It understandably drifted into a discussion about nuking china and all that

But really the issue is an India -Japan joint bond implying defence, of course
And that is something the effectiveness of which, the PRC members of this forum simply cant deny

It is a sure winner - it will evolve into cooperation in many other areas too many to enumerate here
and one more important factor is that it will certainly deliver a hard blow to the PRC,
a substantial DOWNGRADE of the importance of PRC
not only in India's and japan's estimations but clearly and surely also
in the eyes of the rest of the world as the india-japan bond
becomes economically viable

Chinese products could well become a phenomenon of the past, a very limited and contained past at that !
Jai Hind - BANZAI !

 

[CCP]

Chinese products could well become a phenomenon of the past, a very limited and contained past at that !

Why? can you explain a bit?

 

[CCP]

It is a sure winner [/COLOR]- it will evolve into cooperation in many other areas too many to enumerate here
and one more important factor is that it will certainly deliver a hard blow to the PRC,
a substantial DOWNGRADE of the importance of PRC
not only in India's and japan's estimations but clearly and surely also
in the eyes of the rest of the world as the india-japan bond
becomes economically viable
[/B]

We hear this kind of things for decades, but the facts is Japanese and Indian GDP getting smaller and smaller compare to Chinese GDP.

 

[boris]

Why? can you explain a bit?

Japanese do the job better.

 

[CCP]

Japanese do the job better.

so, Why their GDP decrease to half of Chinese GDP and their debt reached 250% of their GDP?

 

[boris]

so, their GDP decrease to half of Chinese GDP and their debt reached 250% of their GDP.

Their growth rate is around 2% and they might improve. It is still better to live there than the PRC regardless of your GDP.