China LOSES claim on South China Sea at UN-backed Tribunal, threatens WAR

Oblaks

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I reported you for using racial slurs (which you did earlier as well).

Hopefully, the moderators will ban you from the Chinese sub-forum.

If you can't discuss issues in a civilized manner, you should stay in the Indian forums.
I also reported you for your racist slur towards Indians.. If you can't stand racism.. refrain from doing that too
 

amoy

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Unfortunately that is how the "world" functions. Might is right, but let us not misinterpret this statement casually. My interpretation of the ruling says that only few small countries favour China's stand and hence the odds are against China. If China doesn't bend then China will break.

All the CCP bravado is for domestic consumption. CCP doesn't wish to look weak in eyes of the Chinese folks, otherwise that will lead to downfall of the authoritarian regime. If China dares to ignore the ruling, then China risks becoming the victim of unilateral actions of adversaries in future.

Those few bragging about financial muscle of China ignore a basic fact: Nation States don't work like corporations. Before WW2 Germany was UK's largest trading partner. Economics won't save China. But then the regional countries which are disputing China's claim will need to take a stand on the issue before they may expect other powers to jump in on their behalf.

Absolutely, countries like Philippines and Vietnam have created sufficient doubts in minds of the decision makers of US/Japan/India and it will take few bold steps on their part to allow the international community to take their side openly.
Why is it so hard for an Indian to digest the event? Maybe taking off your ideological lens would help u better understand this -- it's not CCP alone, it's across the whole political spectrum who're in the consensus of SCS claim. 9-dash or 11-dash claim was published in 1940s much ahead of communist victory, as well as the Philippine independence. Whoever in power would find it suicidal to relinquish the territorial claim, CCP or ABC notwithstanding.

Back in your indian context who wishes to look weak, BJP or Cong.? Modi has made higher pitches against China to sound more nationalistic than the nationalists :biggrin2: .

Economics is not to save anybody but does afford the lubricant for military might.

Platitudes like "international community" are always amusing. Which community is it on earth? Most are indifferent, some in favour of China's stand, some not - overall speaking as fractional as could be. External powers are the driving force behind, otherwise PHL wouldn't have been so emboldened as to challange China. But, India's role? phewwwwwwwwww u're not even in the league.
 

aerokan

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I reported you for using racial slurs (which you did earlier as well).

Hopefully, the moderators will ban you from the Chinese sub-forum.

If you can't discuss issues in a civilized manner, you should stay in the Indian forums.
Civilized? WTF is civilized about the country ignoring any logic to actually claim someone else's EEZ? WTF is civilized about you talking about abusing your country's veto power to bypass any logical arguments?

Take that now.. When you don't care about what you or your country does to others, make sure you are ready to take what others throw at you...jackass!!

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Neo

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LOL, @Neo liked @Martian 's post.
Does he even know what's the matter?:rofl:
If Neo justifies Chinese sovereignty over SCS because of 2000 years old claim, he is justifying Indian Akhand Bharat because of Indian sovereignty on entire subcontinent since 3500 B.C..:p
Oops, I just liked some more. Sorry for ruining your say lol. :lol:

Unlike most active Indians, this guy talks sense. Not because he's a Chinese (or maybe yes?) but he's rational and and not blinded by false chauvinism.
 

aerokan

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Oops, I just liked some more. Sorry for ruining your say lol. [emoji38]

Unlike most active Indians, this guy talks sense. Not because he's a Chinese (or maybe yes?) but he's rational and and not blinded by false chauvinism.
Indeed you can only understand his rationale...

There are two kinds of logic in this world..
1. Chinese logic - (only understood by Chinese and pakis)
2. The actual logic

Its good that you already know where you are

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Neo

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China should be kicked out as a permanent member of the UN Security Council. It's behavior is outrageous and appalling. For this Communist nation, 'it's my way or the highway.' How can it be allowed to sit in judgement on the high table of the UN when it is itself breaking the resolutions of the UN with impunity?

It's pissed off all the littoral states around the South China Sea, the US, India, Australia, Japan and most of the world, except of course their boot-lickers Pakistan, North Korea and Cambodia. This is actually the Gang of Four!
Before we point fingers at China, the US and the UK must be the first to be kicked out of UNSC for abusing their powers and for misleading and manipulating the world against Iraq. The war killed more than a million innocent civilians, the country which was quite a wellfare state compared to the region, is bombed to stoneage because someone mislead the UNSC.
 

aerokan

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Why is it so hard for an Indian to digest the event? Maybe taking off your ideological lens would help u better understand this -- it's not CCP alone, it's across the whole political spectrum who're in the consensus of SCS claim. 9-dash or 11-dash claim was published in 1940s much ahead of communist victory, as well as the Philippine independence. Whoever in power would find it suicidal to relinquish the territorial claim, CCP or ABC notwithstanding.

Back in your indian context who wishes to look weak, BJP or Cong.? Modi has made higher pitches against China to sound more nationalistic than the nationalists :biggrin2: .

Economics is not to save anybody but does afford the lubricant for military might.

Platitudes like "international community" are always amusing. Which community is it on earth? Most are indifferent, some in favour of China's stand, some not - overall speaking as fractional as could be. External powers are the driving force behind, otherwise PHL wouldn't have been so emboldened as to challange China. But, India's role? phewwwwwwwwww u're not even in the league.
The event is well understood.. Nobody has any doubt in their mind that China will not obey the ruling.. It will obviously follow the same arrogant thinking. Doesn't matter what China achieves... It will still be shameless. And we got no doubts about it.

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Srinivas_K

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No. You are wrong.

Read the American newspapers.

They say The Hague's opinion is UNENFORCEABLE.

----------

China, U.S. Vie for Supporters Before South China Sea Ruling | Bloomberg (second paragraph)

"While the international tribunal’s decision on the case brought against China by the Philippines isn’t enforceable...."
Yes Hague decision not enforceable but China lost its soft power, strategical partners, its good will and also economic relations.

With slowing economy, hostile neighbors and lost reputation and occasional USA patrols in SCS China will feel the heat !
 

spikey360

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Does that kind of policy make this world a better place???
Yep. Might=Right is the exact policy which has kept the world in a relative state of peace.
We have mighty powers in the multipolar world, who when in some specifc grouping/alliance/configuration will be able to inflict unacceptable damage to the opposing alliance.
This is the reason, WW3 has not happened two decades after WW2.
 

amoy

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WTF are you talking about! You are a typical chinki who invents his own data. only eight countries, mostly (puppet) African, were openly supportive of China’s position as against the Philippines which had 40 nations supporting it in its arbitration proceedings against Beijing


https://amti.csis.org/arbitration-support-tracker/
Chinki? What does it mean?

And u call those who back China 'puppet'?? That's indeed brazen of u. And u think u're superior to Africans, wow wow shameless shameless :mad2:

African Countries Express Support to China's Position On South China Sea

Arab League Secretary General Nabil al-Araby said that Arab countries support China's position on ‘safeguarding’ its sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Stop your foul language and false pride. Without Chinese, Malaysia would become another shithole - MCA to campaign against Hudud Bill
MCA = Malaysian Chinese Assocition. Hudud =
A proposal in Malaysia's Parliament to introduce the strict Islamic penal code known as hudud law is threatening to split the country's government apart.

It will be debated in October and, if passed, will replace current provisions in the country's Sharia courts -- which govern Muslims -- with harsher hudud punishments. Hudud law allows for penalties such as amputation of limbs and stoning.
 

hardip

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UNCLOS/ITLOS is a sub-department of the United Nations.

China is ignoring UNCLOS/ITLOS for the following reasons.

1. UNCLOS has no jurisdiction to determine sovereignty.
2. UNCLOS has no power to impose a binding involuntary arbitration.
Any dispute resolution must be voluntary to be binding.
3. China specifically exempted itself in writing from UNCLOS in matters of sovereignty.
4. To achieve effect, UNCLOS must pass the United Nations Security Council which is impossible.
China's permanent veto at the UNSC renders the UNCLOS/ITLOS opinion null and void.
5. China was not a party to the proceedings and did not participate. Therefore, the opinion is irrelevant.

Nothing has changed in the South China Sea.

Look Dear Martin..

Chinese r leave always in dreams..
here is the dabble standard of Chinese.
on NSG they shouting about following the NTP rules..
to stop indian entry in NSG..

now China says.. they r not believe in UNCLOS/ITLOS justice..(,china gave 2000 year . ago this dispute area was our.. :D :D..so it means Tibet is not part of China.. because Chinese army attack Tibet 1959 nd concur all Tibet.. so this way justice China leave Tibet..)

this is all crap excuse by China..

China is just want to be super power.. by any cost..

Chinese are on their. way.

nd Number 1 super power.. US. don't like this..

so.. Us will do anything..to stop China reach.. their Dreams.

nd Only US can do..this.. If Chinese thinks.. They ignore..
UNCLOS/ITLOS justice nd it pass away..
.
they r wrong..
.
.
Now us take slowly step.. Rounding.. China..
then goes. to get more countries support.. on this meter..
.
.
maybe A WORLD CAN SEE THE WORLD WAR..
..
 

A chauhan

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One popular meme on both Weibo and WeChat showed a map of China with the distinctive Nine Dash Line dipping below it; a slogan beneath the image read, “China: We can’t lose even one dot.”
Sounding like what Duryodhana said in Mahabharata.

http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/?sum=367&p1=3&p2=3&case=70&p3=5

Nicaragua v. United States of America is about the military and paramilitary activites of the US in and against Nicaragua at the height of the country's civil war in the late 1970s to early 1980s.

The ICJ eventually declared that the US violated the territorial intergrity of Nicaragua and awarded it US$370.2 million in damages. But like China, the US refused to acknowledge that the court had jurisdiction over the case and initially ignored its ruling.

Nicaragua went to the UN Security Council to ask the body to enforce the ruling, but the US – which is a permanent member – vetoed it.

Nicaragua then went to the UN General Assembly to sponsor a resolution that the US must comply with international law and the ruling of the International Court of Justice.

It was put to a vote and Nicaragua won.

Still, the US remained defiant with the support of a big minority.

Every year Nicaragua, sponsored the same resolution and every year it won the vote. One by one the countries supporting the US withdrew until there was only one country left: Israel

It was costing the US tremendously in terms of reputation. It claims to be the exponent, the Number 1 advocate of the Rule of Law and yet it was glaringly in violation of international law. The world was telling the US, ‘You violated international law

The US did not pay Nicaragua the $370.2 million that the court said it should pay.
But in the end, the US gave Nicaragua half a billion dollars in economic aid in the first two years of the presidency of Victoria Chamorro.
In what was apparently a result of a compromise, Chamorro asked Nicaragua's parliament to repeal a law that required the US to pay damages.
Eventually, there was compliance in a way that saved the face of the US. The US paid and Nicaragua was happy.

Make no Mistake! CHINA WILL BOW DOWN IN DUE TIME!!!
True ! This is how things change in due time.
 

Oblaks

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Chinki? What does it mean?

And u call those who back China 'puppet'?? That's indeed brazen of u. And u think u're superior to Africans, wow wow shameless shameless :mad2:

African Countries Express Support to China's Position On South China Sea

Arab League Secretary General Nabil al-Araby said that Arab countries support China's position on ‘safeguarding’ its sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Stop your foul language and false pride. Without Chinese, Malaysia would become another shithole - MCA to campaign against Hudud Bill
MCA = Malaysian Chinese Assocition. Hudud =
Now you are resorting to drama.. there are African puppet states because there are Nations like China whose greed forces them to submission. The Africans.. they prefer fat ass women and hard men which the chinks are not if you know what I mean. So why would they side with the chinks for any other reason
 

Oblaks

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Yep. Might=Right is the exact policy which has kept the world in a relative state of peace.
We have mighty powers in the multipolar world, who when in some specifc grouping/alliance/configuration will be able to inflict unacceptable damage to the opposing alliance.
This is the reason, WW3 has not happened two decades after WW2.
The word for that is deterrence my friend. peace through strength. Your previous statement is suggesting war.. War is something that deterrence tries to prevent
 

Indx TechStyle

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It seems unfair to you, but that's the way the real world works.
I'm not feeling unfair because of P5. I'm feeling unfair because of our so called peaceful socialist government who kicked out the opportunities knocking the door. Seat was offered in 50s and we could do test of 60s before CTBT which our peaceful PM Nehru Ji denied. The country who was bigger, stronger and was winning war suddenly goes to UN for help because it has goodwill of peace.:doh:
Power is held by the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council.
They hold power because they were powerful during formation of UNSC.
Keeping in mind new strategic balance of world, India definitely deserves to join them. But unfortunately some rules and regulations are stopping as of now.
As India grows, we will be able to crush them later.:smash:
A UNCLOS ruling likely means it's binding on India, which is a small country.
FYI, a country with area of more than 3.87 square kilometers isn't categorized as a small country, it's huge.
Yes, China may be 3 times bigger indeed. In search of small countries, you can go to UK and France.
:D
And if largeness of the country is determined by disobeying Internationally imposed law,
India has defied sanctions on Iran and Iraq, resolutions on Kashmir and did nuclear tests when we were a pathetically weak entity.:rolleyes:
And we have got our status only higher and higher since then.
You have yourself said:
China has a massive military. China's conventional army is unstoppable on land. China also has a huge thermonuclear-armed Second Artillery (e.g DF-5 A/B ICBMs, DF-31 A/B ICBMs, DF-41 ICBMs, JL-2 SLBMs, with JL-3 SLBM in development and DF-ZF hypersonic glide vehicles).
Indian military and economy is already sizeable and growing at rapid pace.

You are saying you disobeyed UNCLOS on the basis of power, what you made to think that India won't do the same?
However, a large country like China (which is the world's second-largest in land area) can veto any UN ruling that it doesn't like and this includes the stupid opinion from The Hague.
----------
So, communists are today in mood of boasting of their largeness? :biggrin2:Won't even bother, my country is fairly large to satisfy me.

Though, contradicting you as well, because India too has stronger attributes than Canada, Brazil and Australia (large countries) in many aspects.

There is also a country called Argentina with size close to India.

Now, you can compare if Argentina comes anywhere close to India in economy, military, space tech, R&D or even politically.
Earlier, you suggested India will one day achieve a permanent veto at the UNSC. I strongly disagree.
Firstly, India has been chasing that dream for decades. To no avail.
We are chasing many dreams from years.
We came closer every year, we got success in some, got closer to some and failed in some and tried them again.
As happened in MTCR and NSG, we got one but also failed to get other and we are pitching for it again.
We offered a pie of nuclear market to China which they denied. We will try something else later.
We took a decade to make pathetic helo,(then developed a series), from pathetic warship building capability to 5th largest Navy and from the sounding rocket to LVM3.
We have got miles ahead but we still have to go miles ahead in journey and we will go. Our dreams and we are chasing them, you must have no problem.:)
Just defend your interests instead of urging us.: P
Secondly, India needs China's approval. As you saw with the NSG, I don't think India can ever obtain China's consent. China's permanent veto at the UNSC can prevent India from ever achieving a similar veto.
Here, I would agree to some extent, China gonna try to block India till last (looks that obsession has mutual effect :D), but that needs an argument.
Strategic balance of South Asia won't be working here, India has own path and no responsibility for partitioned (aka self determining) People of Pakistan and Bangladesh. :biggrin2:.
So, it can only whin about NPT(what it did in case of NSG.)
India is hesitating from signing NPT because it doesn't recognize countries as nuclear states who have done nuclear tests after 1967(So, it would snatch India's nuclear weapons).
China knows it and deliberately brought NPT in picture.:p
But we won't compromise with national assets. A third world world weak country could get NSG wavier in 2008. So, a stronger entity too can get wavier in NPT specially for India to be recognized as a great power like P5 members. After being only member recognized as nuclear power without veto, it won't be difficult to get the veto.
And if not, India won't follow decisions against it's interests. Besides that, rest of G4 countries will too remain significant economic powers as that France, UK and Russia, Japan is even rearming itself.
Even G4 could be an influential entity like P5.
I have got many projections for Economic outputs in future.
Posting one of them. You can put yours. But even that will projecting India at second or third.
Nominal
IMG_20160707_120524.JPG

PPP
IMG_20160711_173528.JPG

And in present, India can even bargain MTCR for NSG.
Well, here in India, government is promising for NSG seat by year end.
I don't know what they gonna do or if they can do anyhow as of current scenario I can see.
 

amoy

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Sounding like what Duryodhana said in Mahabharata.



True ! This is how things change in due time.
The US supported the rebels Contras against the Sandinistas-led Nicaraguan govmt.
After the U.S. Congress prohibited federal funding of the contras in 1983, the Reagan administration continued to back them by covertly selling arms to Iran and channeling the proceeds to the contras (the Iran–Contra affair).[66] The International Court of Justice, in regard to the case of Nicaragua v. United States in 1984, found, "the United States of America was under an obligation to make reparation to the Republic of Nicaragua for all injury caused to Nicaragua by certain breaches of obligations under customary international law and treaty-law committed by the United States of America".[67] During the war between the contras and the Sandinistas, 30,000 people were killed.[68]


Only after the Sandinistas rule was toppled did the US give Nicaragua half a billion dollars in economic aid in the first two years of the presidency of Victoria Chamorro.

In the Nicaraguan general election, 1990, a coalition of anti-Sandinista parties (from the left and right of the political spectrum) led by Violeta Chamorro, the widow of Pedro Joaquín Chamorro Cardenal, defeated the Sandinistas. The defeat shocked the Sandinistas, who had expected to win.[69] Commentators such as Noam Chomsky and Brian Willson attributed the outcome to the U.S.-contra threats to continue the war if the Sandinistas retained power, the general war-weariness of the Nicaraguan population, and the abysmal Nicaraguan economic situation.
Nicaragua


Chinese could play the same out of PHL like US did to Nicaragua!
 

Indx TechStyle

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"Rise" is the end, "Peaceful" defines means. It's up to China to decide which means to be adopted. Ends always justify means.

HOw would it dent China's PR, while there're over sixty nations backing China's position over SCS to let claimants nego their own way out rather than under the tribunal jurisdiction? For rivals like India what does it matter since China's PR has never been favoured :biggrin2:

And as for NSG, there is a cohort of around 10 members in support of holding the bar for non-NPT signatories, many others only standing on the sidelines.

Regarding rules, how would it become "ethical" to accept an unilateral ruling from a body that has no jurisdiction over the matter at all?
This so called rule is double standard Sirji.
It recognizes nuclear powers conducted tests before 1967 and snatches all other's weapons whoever sign this.
We will happily sign if China agress for a recognition specially for India. :biggrin2:
 

aerokan

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Chinki? What does it mean?

And u call those who back China 'puppet'?? That's indeed brazen of u. And u think u're superior to Africans, wow wow shameless shameless :mad2:

African Countries Express Support to China's Position On South China Sea

Arab League Secretary General Nabil al-Araby said that Arab countries support China's position on ‘safeguarding’ its sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Stop your foul language and false pride. Without Chinese, Malaysia would become another shithole - MCA to campaign against Hudud Bill
MCA = Malaysian Chinese Assocition. Hudud =
Chinkis are to Chinese what Yankees are to USA. Just a easy to nickname catch phrases.. Nothing more, nothing less.. Those who are drama queens will obviously go gaga over nothing and feel offended.

Chinese being shameless and inferiority ridden people will always ask for 'One China' policy while talking with any country. That's the Chinese standard operating procedure. Any country which is gullible (like India when MMS is the PM) or sympathetic towards Chinese inferiority complex or when they are making business deals worth a sizeable chunk of business ( like some African nations) or when they have taller than crap and deeper than shit relationship (like Pakistan) will affirm Chinese ' One China' policy with good intentions. Chinese obviously read that as countries vigorously supporting China' s every stand on territorial claims. This include but not limited to Chinese fabricated 9 dotted line.

Many here won't consider ourself above any African person but with Chinese..we certainly may not have the same opinion because of your shameless actions

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Oblaks

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Chinese could play the same out of PHL like US did to Nicaragua!
You short sighted Chini fool.. Have you not read what I posted earlier
http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/?sum=367&p1=3&p2=3&case=70&p3=5


The US did not pay Nicaragua the $370.2 million that the court said it should pay.
But in the end, the US gave Nicaragua half a billion dollars in economic aid in the first two years of the presidency of Victoria Chamorro.
In what was apparently a result of a compromise, Chamorro asked Nicaragua's parliament to repeal a law that required the US to pay damages.
Eventually, there was compliance in a way that saved the face of the US. The US paid and Nicaragua was happy.

Make no Mistake! CHINA WILL BOW DOWN IN DUE TIME!!!
 

aerokan

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The US supported the rebels Contras against the Sandinistas-led Nicaraguan govmt.



Only after the Sandinistas rule was toppled did the US give Nicaragua half a billion dollars in economic aid in the first two years of the presidency of Victoria Chamorro.


Nicaragua


Chinese could play the same out of PHL like US did to Nicaragua!
If only you read mahabharata and knew what duryodhana said at his peak power!!

Anyways, Chinese govt hates US because it is shit and Chinese does the same but claim to be pious. Strange Chinese logic.

You are becoming what you hate.. True heights of shamelessness!! 100 years of shame is not sufficient I guess [emoji15]

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