China is copying school system from Finland

[Ray]

Well, NAZI amplified was for Socialism for after all it was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei .

The term Nazi is German and stems from Nationalsozialist.

So one could be a Socialists even then!

History catches up.

And to be a puppet again is no great shakes either.

Who says you are a russophobic nazi?

You were possibly not born when German Nazis practised puppetry.

And you are definitely anti Russian, which is natural with Russia breathing down the neck.

 

[jouni]

Well, NAZI amplified was for Socialism for after all it was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei .

The term Nazi is German and stems from Nationalsozialist.

So one could be a Socialists even then!

History catches up.

And to be a puppet again is no great shakes either.

Who says you are a russophobic nazi?

You were possibly not born when German Nazis practised puppetry.

And you are definitely anti Russian, which is natural with Russia breathing down the neck.

Thanks for the clarification, all else is true... but I am not anti Russian, or russophobic, only anti-Russian government and russoimperialismphobic. I have Russian friends, only last week I was in Russia having a nice time with my friends.

 

[amoy]

alright @jouni I mentioned Finland as a "socialist utopia" actually in a positive sense, meaning more equalitarian, even distribution of opportunities (such as education) and wealth - a goal worth pursuing but of course we can't talk abt idealism out of the context. then back under Chinese circumstances the pattern is -

9 years of compulsory schooling
- primary school 6 years
- junior mid school 3 years
- senior mid school 3 years
onwards college, undergraduate "¦ higher studies.

the compettion starts off for access to quality senior mid.. after that abt 25+-% Chinese totally may b able to advance to college or above. if the pie gets big enough students (and schools) certainly can get relaxed and laid back, having fun and be more wholesome rather than bookworms. then Chinese may be as creative/innovative as Finns.

now the cold fact -China is a developing country of 1.4b people at $ 7~8k GDP per capita only. on this basis China has to decide what to adopt from advanced countries like Finland to cater for the needs. there're places close to Finland's HDI level but not many IMO.

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[jouni]

alright @jouni I mentioned Finland as a "socialist utopia" actually in a positive sense, meaning more equalitarian, even distribution of opportunities (such as education) and wealth - a goal worth pursuing but of course we can't talk abt idealism out of the context. then back under Chinese circumstances the pattern is -

9 years of compulsory schooling
- primary school 6 years
- junior mid school 3 years
- senior mid school 3 years
onwards college, undergraduate "¦ higher studies.

the compettion starts off for access to quality senior mid.. after that abt 25+-% Chinese totally may b able to advance to college or above. if the pie gets big enough students (and schools) certainly can get relaxed and laid back, having fun and be more wholesome rather than bookworms. then Chinese may be as creative/innovative as Finns.

now the cold fact -China is a developing country of 1.4b people at $ 7~8k GDP per capita only. on this basis China has to decide what to adopt from advanced countries like Finland to cater for the needs. there're places close to Finland's HDI level but not many IMO.

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One intersting thing is that in Finland the status of higher education is dropping. A lot of smart people now aspire for a career as a nurse, arts and crafts or carpenter etc. Many people also get double degree like carpenter/ civil engineer or artesan/ baker.

 

[Razor]

@jouni:

One intersting thing is that in Finland the status of higher education is dropping. A lot of smart people now aspire for a career as a nurse, arts and crafts or carpenter etc. Many people also get double degree like carpenter/ civil engineer or artesan/ baker.

Why do you think this happens ?
What are its implications ?
Thoughts ?

 

[pmaitra]

Sorry, I did not meant you. Regularly here in this forum I and Finland have been labelled russophobic nazis by a lot of people. Nice to have balanced view. I am sorry, I should have been more clear. I like your posts, you have good views and occasionally "pick" some other nations without being offensive, that's great.

Please allow me to clarify.

As @Ray Sir said, Adolf Hitler was a socialist, just an ultra-nationalist socialist with his Jew-phobic (often misinterpreted as anti-Semitic) and Russo-phobic bent. Hence, the term NAZI.

Upon assuming power, he turned Germany into fascist state. He started off by taking away the rights of the Jews, including, disenfranchising them (like in the Baltics), and gradually, over a period of time, he began to drive them out, and it all ended up with his infamous gas chambers.

I have called you (singular) out for being an apologist for the fascist Baltic regimes.

In response to you making a comment about every Indian, I countered you individually, and not every Finn.

I have also called you out for crying out loud about a mythical "Russian aggression" at a time when the ethnic Russians are getting bombed and burnt to death by the Ukro-Nazis.

So, your claim that Finland has been branded so and so, is unfounded. Stereotyping is something we all try not to indulge in. Personally, I don't believe you speak for all Finns, just as I don't speak for all Indians.

 

[jouni]

@jouni:



Why do you think this happens ?
What are its implications ?
Thoughts ?

I guess the basic reason is that we have so high standard of living that you can only marginally improve it by having a well paid job. Education, healthcare, libraries, sport facilities etc are all free. People value more meaningful stressftee job with a lot of own time than they value msrginally better living standard. Also because of our common school system for all, there is no real status in being doctor etc. Maybe we have become a communist state, where all are equal ( joke, but with some truth ).

 

[Razor]

I guess the basic reason is that we have so high standard of living that you can only marginally improve it by having a well paid job. Education, healthcare, libraries, sport facilities etc are all free. People value more meaningful stressftee job with a lot of own time than they value msrginally better living standard. Also because of our common school system for all, there is no real status in being doctor etc. Maybe we have become a communist state, where all are equal ( joke, but with some truth ).

I kinda agree with you. Basically there is no incentive in being a doctor, when being a carpenter will do. I could be wrong, but at least that is what I understand here @Mad Indian

And its implications, sustainability ?

 

[jouni]

I kinda agree with you. Basically there is no incentive in being a doctor, when being a carpenter will do. I could be wrong, but at least that is what I understand here @Mad Indian

And its implications, sustainability ?

Nobody is complaining, we all pay taxes and of course there are always people aiming high. I think it is sustainable and one thing is that a good carpenter can earn quite good money also to pay those taxes. There might even be a lack of people who can work with their hands, because too many study theoretic professions.

 

[pmaitra]

If we want to discuss educating children, we need to look at nature.

One needs to understand that love, at times, can be harsh.

Below is a video of a mother giraffe mildly kicking its new-born baby giraffe. That kick, is needed, if that baby giraffe is to survive in this harsh world.

When we raise our children, we need to understand that mollycoddling them will only make them less competitive. Progress is built upon competition, and the one who has gone through the trials and tribulations of this harsh world, will have the wherewithal to compete, and excel.

Here is the video:
Giraffe Birth at the Memphis Zoo - YouTube

 

[Razor]

Nobody is complaining, we all pay taxes and of course there are always people aiming high. I think it is sustainable and one thing is that a good carpenter can earn quite good money also to pay those taxes. There might even be a lack of people who can work with their hands, because too many study theoretic professions.

When did I say anybody complained.
I was just asking your views on its implications and its sustainability.
Thanks.

 

[jouni]

If we want to discuss educating children, we need to look at nature.

One needs to understand that love, at times, can be harsh.

Below is a video of a mother giraffe mildly kicking its new-born baby giraffe. That kick, is needed, if that baby giraffe is to survive in this harsh world.

When we raise our children, we need to understand that mollycoddling them will only make them less competitive. Progress is built upon competition, and the one who has gone through the trials and tribulations of this harsh world, will have the wherewithal to compete, and excel.

Here is the video:
Giraffe Birth at the Memphis Zoo - YouTube

Did I mention that Finland also has one of the highest willingness among young to defend our country. Military service is compulsary. I am sure, that if the need arises our cuddly duddly spoiled wimpy kids can put some unexpecting aggressors wanting to Invade us, to early grave in their surprise.

 

[amoy]

Nobody is complaining, we all pay taxes and of course there are always people aiming high. I think it is sustainable and one thing is that a good carpenter can earn quite good money also to pay those taxes. There might even be a lack of people who can work with their hands, because too many study theoretic professions.

This happens in some professions in some places in China too - manual labor costs more than "brain work" .

Maybe a country like yours has developed to such a level that people're able to work in pursuit of INTEREST rather than for a living. Like u mentioned not much difference in income across different walks of life, a sound social security network, different values, a different sense of personal actualization...

But to East Asian countries, the security network is not so "mature" that people may have to work for a saving . Chinese are more material yearning for material comforts (houses/cars alike) which Finns already have :cool2:

I guess Finnish progressive income tax rate must be very very high in order to redistribute for societal "equity" .

China as a reference -

 

[pmaitra]

Did I mention that Finland also has one of the highest willingness among young to defend our country. Military service is compulsary. I am sure, that if the need arises our cuddly duddly spoiled wimpy kids can put some unexpecting aggressors wanting to Invade us, to early grave in their surprise.

Conscription is a practical necessity with countries with small population. If what you say is true, then good for you. People should be willing to defend their country.

Now, stepping aside from pulling the trigger, let's talk about trades. It takes a lot more effort to be an engineer, doctor, or scientist, than to become a carpenter. Excellence can only be achieved by inculcating the spirit of competition from a very early age.

I do not miss an Indian IKEA. I do miss an Indian BMW.

 

[jouni]

Why do you need BMW, when you got Jaguar? Ikea is in its field as innovative and high quality as BMW. I can sell you my 530i if you want.

 

[pmaitra]

Why do you need BMW, when you got Jaguar? Ikea is in its field as innovative and high quality as BMW. I can sell you my 530i if you want.

No thanks. I am happy with my "Das Auto für die Bevölkerung." [PIC; more here]

 

[jouni]

No thanks. I am happy with my "Das Auto für die Bevölkerung." [PIC; more here]

Great looking Golf. You know that Hitler salute came when he tested if his VW Beetle was blowing hot air to the windshield

 

[pmaitra]

Great looking Golf. You know that Hitler salute came when he tested if his VW Beetle was blowing hot air to the windshield

VolksWagen was the creation of Adolf Hitler and Ferdinand Porsche.

That is not a Golf. That is a Golf Variant, aka SportWagen.

 

[jouni]

This happens in some professions in some places in China too - manual labor costs more than "brain work" .

Maybe a country like yours has developed to such a level that people're able to work in pursuit of INTEREST rather than for a living. Like u mentioned not much difference in income across different walks of life, a sound social security network, different values, a different sense of personal actualization...

But to East Asian countries, the security network is not so "mature" that people may have to work for a saving . Chinese are more material yearning for material comforts (houses/cars alike) which Finns already have :cool2:

I guess Finnish progressive income tax rate must be very very high in order to redistribute for societal "equity" .

China as a reference -

You are spot on in your observations. Our income tax rate is a little bit higher thsn that jut not much. Other taxes are high, like car, gasoline, alcohol, tobacco, property, vat etc.

 

[Mad Indian]

I kinda agree with you. Basically there is no incentive in being a doctor, when being a carpenter will do. I could be wrong, but at least that is what I understand here @Mad Indian

And its implications, sustainability ?

Nordic state's successes are over rated. They only show the statistics which show them in good light and not the ones which show them in bad. For instance, at the moment, American house hold income is about 1.5times that of the Nordic ones and still it is growing at a healthy rate of 3% because, US is much more capitalistic than the Nordic states. Nordic states have plateaued and will remain so , so long as they are socialist.(Read market socialist and not pure socialist)

And Market socialism does not destroy the economy like the communist economy destroys it like it did in USSR. But it makes the economy static like it did in the western world. Sure you will have lower poverty, but you will also have no further growth/progress in the economy.

So, if the nation wants to grow and prosper at the cost of inequality or does the nation wants to reduce inequality at the cost of growth and prosperity is a choice for each individual country.

That said, I would rather India be a rich, prosperous and growing (albiet with inquality) than be a poor old bugger with good quality