China has military presence in Gilgit-Baltistan (PoK)

civfanatic

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We are prepared for a defensive two-front war, despite what our hapless media says. In Arunachal, we have 100,000 troops (three corps) plus several squadrons of Su-30MKI and MiG-27s. This force is larger than the entire army and air force of most countries. What do the Chinese have on the other side of the border?

Along the Western front with Pak, only God knows how many troops and equipment we have amassed.

Instead of belligerently starting conflicts like Pak did in the past, we should build up our defences and wait for the enemy to make the first move.
 

tharikiran

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^^Guys, don't you all think the Chinese are already making their moves. The road links, rail links. We keep waiting and watching and they will keep occupying.

I say, hit first and have a skirmish. See what happens.Yes, you all are right about building up defences.
Before we make a first strike, we need to be ready and have the capability to do that in the first place.

It's like, we know China has a huge army and we are not ready to start a fight. We keep building our defences and China in turn will be building hers and at the same time keep occupying our land.

It's like China has 10 soldiers and we have 5 and we need to bridge the gap. This (gap) will go on forever.

When do we go for "First Blood" ?
 
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How much experience do Chinese have fighting long distances?? Last war they fought they lost to their smaller neighbor Vietnam. Use the naval choke points as cutoffs it will be a catastrophe for the chinese economy. One mountaineous highway connects to this region it should be a primary target.
 
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tharikiran

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How much experience do Chinese have fighting long distances?? Last war they fought they lost to their smaller neighbor Vietnam. Use the naval choke points as cutoffs it will be a catastrophe for the chinese economy. One mountaineous highway connects to this region it should be a primary target.
I was thinking on the same lines. All pakistani ports are within reach.Is that permafrost highway/rail link the only connecting link ?
Then that's gone for sure.What are the oil supplying countries for China ? Who is the biggest exporter to them ?
Among them who are our friends ?
 

tarunraju

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This is just a 'buildup' guys. That highway is extremely fragile. All it will take is to clog one of the tunnels. If not a bombing run, a surface-to-surface missile with an incendiary (conventional) warhead should do. With this move, China has shown that there is an energy-line vulnerability in the Indian Ocean for sure.
 

Yusuf

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I think energy line security is just an excuse. There is a much more sinister design in this to get chinese forces on Indias western flank.
 

ahmedsid

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Taking back POK is not a matter of Impotence in the part of the Govt. Be it BJP Or Congress, they both know the ground realities, and dont listen to arm chair generals on forums! They know how much it will take to take back POK and they also know that when push comes to shove, these arm chair generals will not come in use. So quit calling it Political Will and what not!
 

Ray

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China deploys 11,000 troops in Gilgit area in Occupied Kashmir

New York: In a quiet move, China has deployed about 11,000 troops in the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region in the Occupied Kashmir to take de-facto control of the key area, where a rebellion is simmering against the Pakistani rule. The New York Times said that there were two important new developments in ...[ url=http://www.indianexpress.com/comments/china-deploys-11-000-troops-in-gilgit-area-in-occupied-kashmir/673770]Read more[/url]

So, there is a rebellion in Balwaristan!!

Nothing surprising.

The Sunni Govt of Pakistan has been at it to change the sectarian demography by planting Sunnis in a Shia majority area and anyway, Northern Areas have been kept real backward compared to the rest of Pakistan. Since Pakistan itself is quite backward in most areas, one can understand how backward Balwaristan has been kept by Pakistan!!!!

Balwaristan survives to eke out some sort of an existence because of the munificence of the Aga Khan!! That too is opposed by the Sunni government of Pakistan!
 

tharikiran

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I think energy line security is just an excuse. There is a much more sinister design in this to get chinese forces on Indias western flank.
Does that mean they have realised they can't fight in the mountains and won't be able to make much ground
progress and therefore are looking for an opening throught the west.

Now, are we supposed to focus on the west or the North East ?
What's the point of attacking from the west if their supply lines are vulnerable ?
 

Yusuf

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How long would a war last between India and China and for how long would India choke its supply? China would have enough to last a war.
 

ganesh177

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This happened 2 months ago.

Gilgit-Baltistan part of Pakistan, declares court



The full bench of the Supreme Appellate Court Gilgit-Baltistan's declared Gilgit-Baltistan a part of Pakistan on Thursday.
Headed by Justice Muhammad Nawaz Abbasi, the bench comprised Chief Judge Jaffer Shah and Justice Mohammad Yaqoob.
The court passed the historic judgment while hearing a petition filed by judicial officers of the lower judiciary requesting that the subordinate judiciary be upgraded.
"Gilgit-Baltistan by virtue of Article 1 [2] [d] of the Constitution of Pakistan for all intents and purposes is part of Pakistan, and with the system of self governance on the basis of a provincial setup has internal independence," said the judgment, which was 91 pages long and was drafted by Justice Abbasi, a former judge of the Supreme Court of Pakistan.
The judgment also said the governor of G-B is a representative of the prime minister of Pakistan whereas the chief minister is the chief executive of the G-B government as established under the Empowerment and Self Governance Order 2009.
On the issue of service rules of the subordinate judiciary, the judgment said the chief court of G-B should frame these rules on the pattern of rules framed by high courts in the provinces with necessary modifications, and may frame judicial policy as per policy in the provinces.
The judgment also said the court may create a post for a senior civil judge in the judicial service in order to improve the lower judiciary.


Gilgit-Baltistan part of Pakistan, declares court – The Express Tribune
 

tharikiran

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How long would a war last between India and China and for how long would India choke its supply? China would have enough to last a war.
We can choke them in the IOR as long as we want.How much of their oil is flowing through it right now ?
If it's considerable then it will have a effect.
Of course China will have enough to last a war.It may have the oil but will it's supply lines to the front/war zone work ?
Be it oil or equipment.
 

hit&run

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@Yusuf
I do not know why you are so defencive. We captured Siachen just because Pakistanis were sending tourist in there.
I can recall few Anglo Sikh wars were friendly states were attacked by British army for just changing the army formations.
This is the right time and excuse to teach Pakistan a lesson that J&K is Integral part of India not a land for monkey division/share with Chinese. China will be the first and last nation to invest its army work force (as they say) for better tourist facilities or Infrastructure in another nation lol specially which she consider disputed. China has to come up clear or witness India's military action against Pakistan. If you are betting that China will fight till last Pakistani then i will say that you are overestimating China.
 

Ray

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Does that mean they have realised they can't fight in the mountains and won't be able to make much ground
progress and therefore are looking for an opening throught the west.

Now, are we supposed to focus on the west or the North East ?
What's the point of attacking from the west if their supply lines are vulnerable ?
All can fight in the mountains, be it the Indians, Pakistanis or the Chinese.

However, the progress is exceedingly slow owing to the treacherous and difficult terrain that tantamount to physical foot movement as also because logistics are usually manpack or animal pack since the roads are few and far between. To sustain an operation, it is imperative that there be a Line of Communication (i.e. roads) and that too a secure one!

In mountains, movement will be confined to Valleys. Since it is not problematic to infiltrate in the mountains, owing to restriction of observation, unless each mountain peak and spine is occupied, all lines of communications will be vulnerable, be it in the Northern Areas, Aksai Chin or the North East.

However, the western flank leads into Tibet through valleys and vice versa (though there are issues there too!) and the vertical displacement in most cases is not that acute.
 

Yusuf

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Oh no I am not defensive. But going and busting up is not the option. I look at it this way. If China is looking at oil supplies and sneaking in, then why dont we play the games and do something about Balochistan which is the port of entry and exit for China? Play the games first. Fist fight is the last option and an option that remains. Just fighting is not a sign of bravery and being aggressive, but taking brave and ruthless strategic initiatives pays better dividends.
 

Ray

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War with Pakistan is not the answer, since it will slow down the Indian economy in a big way and will not be appreciated by the international community.

As Sun Tsu said, the supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

Therefore, it is better if Pakistan self destruct and it is on the way to do so.

Let the internal squabble magnify and let in Pakistan dog eat dog!
 

Ray

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Oh no I am not defensive. But going and busting up is not the option. I look at it this way. If China is looking at oil supplies and sneaking in, then why dont we play the games and do something about Balochistan which is the port of entry and exit for China? Play the games first. Fist fight is the last option and an option that remains. Just fighting is not a sign of bravery and being aggressive, but taking brave and ruthless strategic initiatives pays better dividends.
One does not have to encourage the Balochis, Pathans, Sindhis, the Shias of Northern Area.

They are as it is out to take on the very concept of Pakistan, which in any case, was flaky right from inception.

Pakistan was born as a federation, with the four provinces broadly defined in ethnic and linguistic terms. However, the Centre – exemplified by the civil and military bureaucracy – had a dominating role, though one opposed by the provinces, which continued pushing for greater devolution of power. At one time or the other, the sub-national forces in the smaller provinces of Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP (now renamed Khyber-Pakhtunkhwah) nurtured rebellious tendencies, and often even movements. The separation of East Pakistan in 1971 was a bitter manifestation of these forces at work. Calls for greater provincial autonomy are as old as Pakistan itself, and indeed have become louder in recent years. All this time, however, such calls have fallen on near-deaf ears; the iron grip of the Centre has not eased.

Pakistan may have nuclear bombs, but it in itself is a nuclear bomb that is ready to explode and self destruct!
 
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Yusuf

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But Sir, they need some backing. The ISI/PA combine suppresses all resistance.
 

Ray

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Given the pacifist nature of our governments, be they the UPA or NDA, one wonders if such a government would have the gumption to give any backing to anyone.

If they could, overtly or covertly then that would be the best thing that could happen to Indian foreign policy. The historical blunder of withdrawing support from the Khampas of Tibet, even though the whole project was US organised and funded, is a case in point where a fit case is dropped like a hot potato!

We cannot even give moral support as Pakistan does to the jihadi elements of the world who have launched terrorism in Kashmir.

Therefore, I seriously doubt if the Indian government would gird up their loins and catch the bull by the horns!

Not only should India assist those who are crying for freedom in Pakistan, but also in China. The Uighurs and the Tibetans are being oppressed underfoot! It will teach both Pakistan and China that what is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander!
 
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