China finally retires MiG-19 clones

[LETHALFORCE]

China cannot copy western design so how do they make it better than the spey??

 

[tarunraju]

JH-7 would be toast against USAF, but it is more than capable of carrying out deep strike missions in india as things currently stand now. I rate JH-7 to be a superior attacker to anything in India's inventory outside those Su30MKIs.

JH-7 is barely more advanced than Jaguar. IAF is already in the process of modernizing over 120 Jaguars with F125IN engines and latest avionics.

 

[tony4562]

There have been lots of setbacks, and there have been lots of retrials, but things generally are looking up. WS-9 project is finally finished, J11Bs are taking to the air with WS10 (one would be crazy to put an engine in a production aircraft if it is completely unsatisfactory), and first WS13 equipped JF17 is close to first flight. There amy still be bugs/glitchers, but it definitely looks like that China has finally overcome the bottles necks in aero engine development.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

There have been lots of setbacks, and there have been lots of retrials, but things generally are looking up. WS-9 project is finally finished, J11Bs are taking to the air with WS10 (one would be crazy to put an engine in a production aircraft if it is completely unsatisfactory), and first WS13 equipped JF17 is close to first flight. There amy still be bugs/glitchers, but it definitely looks like that China has finally overcome the bottles necks in aero engine development.

none of these things have happened ws-10 is a 30 year flop provide a link

 

[tony4562]

China cannot copy western design so how do they make it better than the spey??

Do you realize that time has changed. 20 years ago, not a single km of expressway existed in China, no one had cars, and the soviet union was producing 3 times more steel than China, now China has the second longest express way network along with the largest car market in the world, and China produces 10 times more steel than Russia. I would therefore be very careful with the phrase 'china can not' because China can a lot.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I just want a link for your claims, chinese history can be discussed elsewhere.

 

[Armand2REP]

Wiki says 9000kg, 6500kg is probably the number for the early model JH-7 whose production has long given away to JH-7A. JH-7A has avionics that can literally run circles around Su24, so call it a poorman's Su-24 is laughable. Also the combat range for JH-7 is more likely around 1500km.

Guy, wiki is a waste of time unless it has a citation with a valid source to it, of which wiki does not provide in the technical section of aircraft. There is no difference between the engines of the JH-7 and the JH-7A so its payload is still 6,500kg. Source located here... link Chinese avionics are a joke, not even Pakistan wants them. JH-7 is not a fighter, it is a strike aircraft so it isn't running circles around much of anything. The range is different than the combat range, Max range of the aircraft is 3,650km, the radius is 1,650km. Once you load up with bombs it is significantly lower than that.

Anyway China currently has a deep strike aircraft that she can produce 100% indiginously, and if needed can be produced en masse. The same can not be said of India.

Anyway... China cannot produce it 100% indigenously. The Spey engines were sold on license production, UK never gave China the specs for the compressor or turbine blades. Why do you think they only built 70 aircraft or never put those engines on other PLAAF fighters considering they are still better than anything China makes? Answer is simple, China can't make the engines.

 

[badguy2000]

China cannot copy western design so how do they make it better than the spey??

"China cannot copy western design so " ----wrong precondition and base

"so how do they make it better than the spey"-----wrong conclusion!

guy, USA ,Russia and Saudi Arabia are import CHina "copied" highspeed railway, isntead of Japanese ,French or German " geunie" highspeed raily

 

[SHASH2K2]

Unfortunately the so-called 'indian systems' that have actually entered service, generally don't exist, virtually all of them are either on the drawing board, in development, forever under testing or 'will be inducted very soon'.

Prithvi-I,II, missiles based on SA-2, a 105mm field canon (again a copy of a british gun), INSAS rifle (again a copy of a belgian rifle, heard Indian army still prefers AK), couple Dehli class ships stuffed full of imported foreign weaspons & sensors (can't think of a single india-made subsystem on those ships) is all we currently can call 'the indian system'

Tell me one of your system which is not a cheap copy of some of Russian system. At least we have some diverse source to procure our systems.
All you guys can lay hands on and copy is Some Russian system. Your Intellectual property Violation is so famous that no one is ready to sell you . Have a look at your import and you will find only country is Russia. Even they are not transferring any tech now a days due to you guys openly stealing technology without any shame.
Best of luck for your Future .

 

[badguy2000]

JH-7 is barely more advanced than Jaguar. IAF is already in the process of modernizing over 120 Jaguars with F125IN engines and latest avionics.

another "to be' project on drawing board?
India has tooooo many such "to be " projects.....

tony's word is the best reply to your word.

Unfortunately the so-called 'indian systems' that have actually entered service, generally don't exist, virtually all of them are either on the drawing board, in development, forever under testing or 'will be inducted very soon'.

Prithvi-I,II, missiles based on SA-2, a 105mm field canon (again a copy of a british gun), INSAS rifle (again a copy of a belgian rifle, heard Indian army still prefers AK), couple Dehli class ships stuffed full of imported foreign weaspons & sensors (can't think of a single india-made subsystem on those ships) is all we currently can call 'the indian system

 

[badguy2000]

Tell me one of your system which is not a cheap copy of some of Russian system. At least we have some diverse source to procure our systems.
All you guys can lay hands on and copy is Some Russian system. Your Intellectual property Violation is so famous that no one is ready to sell you . Have a look at your import and you will find only country is Russia. Even they are not transferring any tech now a days due to you guys openly stealing technology without any shame.
Best of luck for your Future .

Russia is importing CHinese highspeed railway...

 

[tony4562]

Tell me one of your system which is not a cheap copy of some of Russian system. At least we have some diverse source to procure our systems.
All you guys can lay hands on and copy is Some Russian system. Your Intellectual property Violation is so famous that no one is ready to sell you . Have a look at your import and you will find only country is Russia. Even they are not transferring any tech now a days due to you guys openly stealing technology without any shame.
Best of luck for your Future .

JH-7 is not a russian copy, it is not anybody's copy.

C602 missile is certainly not a russian copy, C8xx missile is certainly not a russian copy, C7xx missile is certainly not a russian copy.

T99 tank is certainly not a russian copy.

DF9/15/21/31 missiles certainly not russian copies.

Don't think 052C destroyer is a russian copy, nor 039/41 SSks

093 SSN is not a russian copy, nor is 094 SSBN

the list goes on and on.

Your claim is so ridicurous that it really doesnot warrant a rebuttal.

 

[Yusuf]

If this childish tit for tat doesn't stop I will close this thread,

 

[tony4562]

Guy, wiki is a waste of time unless it has a citation with a valid source to it, of which wiki does not provide in the technical section of aircraft. There is no difference between the engines of the JH-7 and the JH-7A so its payload is still 6,500kg. Source located here... link Chinese avionics are a joke, not even Pakistan wants them. JH-7 is not a fighter, it is a strike aircraft so it isn't running circles around much of anything. The range is different than the combat range, Max range of the aircraft is 3,650km, the radius is 1,650km. Once you load up with bombs it is significantly lower than that.



Anyway... China cannot produce it 100% indigenously. The Spey engines were sold on license production, UK never gave China the specs for the compressor or turbine blades. Why do you think they only built 70 aircraft or never put those engines on other PLAAF fighters considering they are still better than anything China makes? Answer is simple, China can't make the engines.

The same logic applies to every aircraft. Chinese avionics are less sophisticated than western counterparts, I agree, but that does not mean they are inferior to russian made ones. China is replacing the avionics suit on Su27/J11 with domestic ones shows clearly that.

Yes Britain didn't give everything to China regarding Spey, that's why it took China 20 years to have everything figured out. WS9 was not certified until around 2000, by then China was not facing any imminent war, thus no effort invested to put WS9 in another aircraft say J8, all China wanted was the learning experience, the knowledge, and something to built upon. But WS9 production is ongoing as China is continuing to procure JH7A.

 

[Armand2REP]

That's why it took China 20 years to have everything figured out. WS9 was not certified until around 2000, by then China was not facing any imminent war, thus no effort invested to put WS9 in another aircraft say J8, all China wanted was the learning experience, the knowledge, and something to built upon. But WS9 production is ongoing as China is continuing to procure JH7A.

Face it Guy, you cannot make the WS-9 without imported UK components. Once the license was over, no more WS-9 were made.

 

[badguy2000]

Face it Guy, you cannot make the WS-9 without imported UK components. Once the license was over, no more WS-9 were made.

haha, the license was over long ago. UK stop producing the component of spey long ago. ..........


well, just check the structure of sino-Russia trade, you can easily find that now Russia is a raw-resource supplier and industry products importer....

poor russia , the former superpower with one of world second biggest industry base, now has become a raw-resource suppliers, like S.Arabia . the case itself tells you how much Russia has be deindustrialized.

 

[Armand2REP]

haha, the license was over long ago. UK stop producing the component of spey long ago. ..........

Yeah, and China stopped producing WS-9s long ago.

well, just check the structure of sino-Russia trade, you can easily find that now Russia is a raw-resource supplier and industry products importer....

poor russia , the former superpower with one of world second biggest industry base, now has become a raw-resource suppliers, like S.Arabia . the case itself tells you how much Russia has be deindustrialized.

Yes, and as Russia crashed so will China. At least they have raw materials. You don't have jack squat except an ageing population.