China establishes 'air-defence zone' over East China Sea

happy

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,370
Likes
1,454
you should read the definition of "air defence zone" before drawing your conclusion .

USA/Japan established "air defence zone" over international high sea several decade ago. and the boundary of their "air defence zone" is only 130 KM aways form Chinese mainland.

What CHina is doing now is just a late reply to USA/Japanese wrongdo.


Air-defence identification zones

1.Zones do not necessarily overlap with airspace, sovereign territory or territorial claims

2.States define zones, and stipulate rules that aircraft must obey; legal basis is unclear

3.During WW2, US established an air perimeter and now maintains four separate zones - Guam, Hawaii, Alaska, and a contiguous mainland zone

4.UK, Norway, Japan and Canada also maintain zones
You guys really need to get a good whooping on the a$$. Nowhere did US or Japan or any other country establish air defence zones over disputed territory.

Dont you know the difference between disputed territory and international territory ??
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
You guys really need to get a good whooping on the a$$. Nowhere did US or Japan or any other country establish air defence zones over disputed territory.

Dont you know the difference between disputed territory and international territory ??
China never claims anything is disputed.

They own everything they see and claim.

It is only the others who dispute it! ;)
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835


"air-defence identification zone" laid down by China
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
You guys really need to get a good whooping on the a$$. Nowhere did US or Japan or any other country establish air defence zones over disputed territory.

Dont you know the difference between disputed territory and international territory ??
so, you acknowledge Diaoyu island is a disputed area, don't you?

but it is Japan that established ADZ over disputed Diaoyu island decades ago..

what CHina do now is just a late reply to what Japan did decades ago..


So ,pls don't be too hypercritic.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
Japan that established ADZ over disputed Diaoyu island decades ago..
Some links please.

Can't find any references.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
the red one is the overlaped area of CHina's ADZ and Japanese ADZ.

most of overlaped one is over international highsea,but some of them is over disputed island.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
In a word,

CHina's establishing its own ADZ is indeed a deed to break the status quo.

But the status quo is unfair one ,which was formed by USA ,when CHina was weak. That is USA/Japan established their ADZ along CHina's boundary while CHina could do nothing.


Now, what CHina does is just a correction to the historic unfaireness.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
the red one is the overlaped area of CHina's ADZ and Japanese ADZ.

most of overlaped one is over international highsea,but some of them is over disputed island.
This maybe from a Red Chinese link to justify.

Any international link.
 

W.G.Ewald

Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2
Professional
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
14,139
Likes
8,594
Are terms ADZ and ADIZ used interchangeably?
 

ice berg

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
2,145
Likes
292
Good that CCp finally grow some balls and PLAAF get some long needed experience.
China navy got their Gulf of Aden. About time PLAAF get some experience too.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
Good that CCp finally grow some balls and PLAAF get some long needed experience.
China navy got their Gulf of Aden. About time PLAAF get some experience too.
Great.

Let's see the first aircraft that you bring down!
 

Impluseblade

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
306
Likes
36
Well, you made an insightful observation. While all the western reports bash China on the establishment of ADIZ, few reports mention how aggressive Japan's ADIZ is and none of these reports include a map of Japan's ADIZ. It is also difficult to find an official map of Japan's ADIZ but Japan used to broadcast every incidence of China's aircraft entering its ADIZ. So does Japan's ADIZ not exist?

Here is a report on Japan unilaterally extended its ADIZ into Taiwan's ADIZ. This report also has a map of Japan's ADIZ in the diaoyu dao area.
Japan extends ADIZ into Taiwan space - Taipei Times

Japan extends ADIZ into Taiwan space

DON'T ASK, JUST TELLTokyo informed Taipei it was expanding its air zone, but did not consult with officials in advance. However, MOFA said it 'knows how to deal with it'.

Japan has extended its Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) so that it now overlaps with sections of a zone controlled by Taiwan, but foreign affairs officials said yesterday that would not make any difference in practice, as an understanding has been reached between the two parties on how to handle the sensitive matter.

A Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) official said on condition of anonymity that Tokyo informed Taipei "one or two days ago" that its extension of the ADIZ from Yonaguni Island westwards would come into force yesterday.




Some links please.

Can't find any references.
 

Impluseblade

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
306
Likes
36
Hi Ray, that's why you guys are also brainwashed by your free media. These biased reports only briefly mention an overlap between China's ADIZ and Japan' ADIZ and do not blame Japan's aggressive extension of its ADIZ a couple of years ago.
This maybe from a Red Chinese link to justify.

Any international link.
 

Impluseblade

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
306
Likes
36
Chinese is our official language. The English terminology is used by the reporters. Should there be any confusion, you need to refer to the official definitions laid out by the Chinese government.
Are terms ADZ and ADIZ used interchangeably?
 

J20!

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
2,748
Likes
1,541
Country flag
You guys really need to get a good whooping on the a$$. Nowhere did US or Japan or any other country establish air defence zones over disputed territory.

Dont you know the difference between disputed territory and international territory ??
I do, do you?

1. Japan denies that the Diayou's are disputed territory to begin with, so maybe you should lecture their government instead of us "guys".

2. Both the US AS WELL AS JAPANhave huge AIDZ's. A country's air space comprises of the air space over its territory, and 12 nautical miles off its coast. This is Japan's AIDZ.



The deep blue area is Japanese Airspace, which is 12 nautical miles from its shoreline. The light blue area is the "Air Defence Identification Zone", unilaterally defined by Japan's SDF alone. There is no international law governing such definition.

It's AIDZ is so vast, that at some extremities, it overlaps China's EEZ, going as close as 130km to the China's mainland. There are actually times when Japan scrambles F15's the second PLANAF aircraft leave their coastal bases, or when PLANAF surveillance craft leave for exercises beyond the second island chain, because they HAVE TO pass through its AIDZ to get to where their going.. Over the past 4 months, Japan has scrambled F15's 105 times in response to Russian aircraft ALONE.



Tensions continued to escalate between Japan and China over disputed islets in the East China Sea on Thursday, with Japan reportedly sending two F-15s from Naha, Okinawa, after several Chinese military aircraft crossed into its Air defense identification zone (ADIZ). China responded by scrambling two J-10s of its own.
In most of the 520 occasions this year that Japanese jets have been scrambled, when the Japanese Defense Minister is in front of western and Asian Media decrying Chinese "aggression", PLAAF/PLANAF aircraft (usually reconnaissance turboprops) are merely transiting through Japan's disproportionally large AIDZ. When US reconnaissance aircraft fly within 2 km of Chinese airspace - usually near a Chinese naval or air base - the Chinese are "restricting flights in international airspace".

If some of "you guys" actually spent 2 minutes OBJECTIVELY researching some of the bullshit propaganda you're fed by politicians with an agenda, DFI would be a much better place to have a discussion. Don't buy the Japanese dog and pony show.
 
Last edited:

Impluseblade

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
306
Likes
36
Japan takes a shot at China- via Taiwan | Taiwan reports - Jens Kastner (åš´æ–¯)

Japan takes a shot at China- via Taiwan

By Jens Kastner with Wang Jyh-Perng, Reserve Captain Taiwan Navy

Japan extended its Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) near Taiwan in the East China Sea without having consulted Taiwanese authorities in advance. Taiwan's KMT government condemned Japan's unilateral move in a tone unusually firm compared to previous Taiwanese administrations that had dealt with similar issues in the past.

Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs vowed not to make any concessions on what it calls a 'matter of national sovereignty'.

Members of Taiwan's opposition see Japan's ADIZ extension in a different light. To them, the affair signifies that Japan doesn't trust Taiwan anymore. According to the opponents of Taiwanese president's Ma Ying-jeou's cross-straits policy, the KMT not only distances Taiwan ever farther from Washington and Tokyo but also uses the ADIZ issue to deliberately incite anti-Japanese sentiment among the Taiwanese to appease Beijing.

These are weighty allegations, and independent observers don't share the opposition's opinion. To them, it also seems plausible that Ma Ying-jeou's government's strongly opposed Tokyo's move, yet for another reason.

"It wasn't the KMT government's plan to stir up Taiwan's public opinion against the Japanese", explains Lin Cheng-Yi, a researcher on international relations at Taiwan's Academia Sinicia in an interview with Asia Times Online. "The Taiwanese government is worried over China's reaction, so it doesn't want to appear as being too soft on Japan", Lin expounds.

A look out of the box of Taiwan's partisan politics reveals that Japan isn't short of motives to step up its military presence in the East China Sea other than to react to the KMT's pro-China course.

An ADIZ is an area where civilian and military aircraft are required to identify themselves. Aircraft entering the zone are obliged to radio their intended flight course to the respective country's air traffic controllers. The boundary between the Japanese and the Taiwanese Air Defense Identification Zones over the East China Sea used to be over a little island named Yunaguni. Yunaguni is the westernmost island of Japan and lies 180 km from the Taiwanese east coast. Seamen say that on a good day Taiwan's coastline can be seen from the island. The ADIZ line, which has defined 2/3 of Yunganui's airspace as being Taiwanese and 1/3 as Japanese, was drawn by the US military after World War II.

On June 26 Japan unilaterally extended the ADIZ line westwards by 22km. As a result, Taiwanese and Japanese AIDZ now overlap. That Tokyo seems willing to put up with the prospect of doing damage to Taiwan-Japan relations shows how much it worries over China's military activities in the East China Sea. At least three disputed economically and militarily important areas lie in this part of the Pacific Ocean.

The roots of the Sino-Japan East China Sea conflict lie in the cryptic wording of the 'Preamble to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, Article 76'. There, it is stated that 'The continental shelf of a coastal State comprises the seabed and subsoil of the submarine areas that extend beyond its territorial sea throughout the natural prolongation of its land territory to the outer edge of the continental margin, or to a distance of 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured where the outer edge of the continental margin does not extend up to that distance.'

According to China, the Okinawa Trough, an arc-shaped ocean trench that runs from southwestern Japan to northeastern Taiwan, separates China's and Japan's continental shelves. Beijing therefore claims that its territorial waters extend to the trough's center line. To Japan on the other hand, Okinawa Trough is nothing but an 'accidental depression' in the ocean floor, and not the clear-cut boundary between continental shelves as China claims.

Therefore, according to Tokyo's logic, it's the '200 nautical miles' mentioned in Article 76 that define the edges of China's territorial waters in the East China Sea.

The knowledge that the few kilometers where waters claimed by both Beijing and Tokyo overlap not only hold large reserves of oil, gas and fish but also are of strategic importance has been fueling the dispute. In recent years, both sides have been significantly increasing military presence in the region.

Among the areas that have for a long time been in focus of Sino-Japanese contestation are the oil and natural gas fields in the Xihu depression, located around 400 km east of Shanghai in the East China Sea Basin. From the 80ies on the fields have been providing Greater Shanghai with gas for public and industrial use. Later on the fields have undergone further development to cater to the self-supply economy model pursued by the Chinese government.

Japan claims the area to belong to its own exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and therefore regards the Chinese extraction of oil and gas reserves as a large scale theft of its resources.

Another disputed area is the sea near Okinotorishima, a reef far west of Taiwan and roughly 1,700km south of Tokyo. There, within the last 18 months, the Chinese Navy has appeared three times. Japan claims to have the right to establish an EEZ around the reef. China acknowledges Japan's territorial rights to Okinotorishima itself, but unlike Japan Beijing regards it as rocks, not as an islet. Here again comes the 'United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea' into the game. Its hallmark misinterpretative style states that "rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone." Ironically, the question whether or not a rock can sustain human habitation or economic life seems left to be answered by the very countries involved in the respective disputes.

In June 2009 China's navy approached Okinotorishima with a missile destroyer, a supply ship, a support ship and two frigates. In April 2010 a fleet consisting of two guided missile destroyers, three frigates, two Kilo-class submarines and one supply ship crossed the line between Okinawa and Miyako Island which is home to popular Japanese beach resorts.

Then, in proximity to the Okinotorishima reef, the Chinese held sea-air joint anti-submarine warfare drills, and China's ship-borne helicopters once came as close as 90 meters to a Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force ship. In military terms, this is very near.

After the incidents, Japanese media suspected China of having plans to solve the Okinotorishima dispute once and for all by blowing up the uninhabited reef with the use of Special Forces, naval guns or a missile attack.

A look at the map reveals that it's not primarily fish and oil that attracts China's navy to the area – Okinotorishima lies midway between Taiwan and Guam which is home to a major US naval base. Japan believes China's ships mapped the ocean's bottom over which the US Pacific Fleet in future conflicts would pass on its way to Taiwan.

Also a major point of contention are the Diaoyutai Islands -called Senkaku Islands in Japanese- which are divided from Okinawa by the Okinawa Trough. The islands are currently controlled by the Japanese. An estimated 3 to 7 billion tons of oil are hidden under the ocean floor around Diaoyutai, and fishery experts count on an annual catch of 150,000 tons. Apart from this, Diaoyutai is a sensitive spot in Japan's 1,000 nautical miles defense line since the foothold enables the Japan Self-Defense Forces to push forward more than 300km southwest. The islands are considered an ideal location to draw fire off Japan proper in case of an outbreak of war in the East China Sea.

Japan regards Diaoyutai as suitable for the stationing of electronic detection devices and ground-to-air missiles. It is further believed that the US and Japan plan to turn Diaoyutai into an operational outpost of their joint ballistic missile defense system.

To protect its control over Diaoyutai, Japan goes to great lengths. In Japan's Coast Guard District No.1 on Okinawa not fewer than 20 warships are stationed, with five of which belonging to the kiloton class. Japan's aircraft patrol the area every morning and afternoon, sometimes even three times a day. On the nearby Miyako and Kume islands radar stations have been built which double-monitor Diaoyutai.

The Chinese side, however, doesn't seem too impressed with Japan's military buildup. As it was the case in the waters around Okinotorishima, the Diaoyutai Islands too have been witnessing China's military showing off increased self-confidence. In 2008 China's coast guard fleet and J-10 fighters patrolled around Diaoyutai, and in 2009 two Chinese J-10 fighters expelled three Japanese F-2. Earlier this year, a Chinese Oceanic Administration's research vessel came close to a Japan Coast Guard's ship and followed it for almost four hours.

From a Japanese perspective China has been challenging Japan's interests in the East China Sea in ever shorter intervals. China's navy has been coming closer and closer and has crossed sea lines considered sensitive by Japan. It's obvious that Japan's extension of its ADIZ is to be seen in the context of the complicated East China Sea sovereignty disputes. Tokyo's choice to go ahead with the extension without consulting Taiwan's authorities is revealing since it demonstrates that Japan worries to a high degree.

Through the recent extension of the ADIZ over the entire island of Yunaguni, Japan has a freer hand in monitoring the Diaoyutai Islands and even the oil fields in the Xihu depression. The deployment of significant fire power on Yunaguni has also become an easier task.

That the Taiwanese have seen their sovereignty infringed by Japan's actions in the East China Sea is something that has happened in the past. From Lee Teng-hui over Chen Shui-bian to the incumbent Taiwanese president Ma Ying-jeou – all had reasons to complain about Japanese unilateral moves conducted in that part of the Pacific Ocean. Yet, previous and present-day Taiwanese administrations handled the matter differently. As Academy Sinicia researcher Lin Cheng-yi puts it: "The problems with the Japanese aren't new, and they have always been raised by the Taiwanese. However, under the Taiwan's administrations that were pro-Japanese there was no urgent need to solve them."
 

J20!

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
2,748
Likes
1,541
Country flag
This Chinese AIDZ establishment by the Chinese government is a stroke of strategic genius.

The current Japanese administration has been actively maneuvering to make the islands theirs unilaterally - finally culminating in their "purchase" - which started with the arrest of a fisherman in the islands in 2010, then making it public that they'll shoot down "foreign drones" that enter "their airspace", a pointed reference to China and the diaoyus. These are all acts to strengthen its claim and "inherent sovereignty" over the islands.

The most significant headache this Chinese AIDZ presents Japan is whether or not to acknowledge the Chinese ADIZ. If they don't acknowledge it and send anything airborne into disputed waters/airspace, the PLAAF is going to scramble fighters to intercept and that by default puts PLAAF fighters in that very disputed airspace. But they would only be there in the first place because Japanese planes went in first and did not obey China's ADIZ rules. Try as they may, even the most accomplished anti-China spin doctor is going to have a hard time making that out as a deliberate provocation by China.

If Japan, OTOH accepts China's ADIZ and follows its rules to avoid triggering PLAAF scrambles into disputed territory, that in itself is a win for China because it would in effect end Japanese air patrols over those disputed islands and waters and in effect roll back Japan's own ADIZ back beyond China's, which in effect gives China a small degree of control over the airspace over the Diayous.

Geopolitical wrestling at its best. Grab a bowl of popcorn and watch what japan does now. Ball's in their court.
 
Last edited:

nimo_cn

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
4,032
Likes
883
Country flag
western media are criticizing China for establishing air defence zone without consulting with Japan as if Japanese ever notified China in 1960s when they set up air defence zone that as close as 130 miles away from China. they didn't even mention that Japanese established air defence zone along Chinese territory decades ago.

i am always glad that i learned English and can read original masterpieces published by western media, otherwise i wouldnt appreciate the hypocrisy displayed by western media.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top