China Economy: News & Discussion

Mikesingh

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India the most dangerous country to be a woman, US ranks 10th in survey
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/25/health/india-dangerous-country-women-survey-intl/index.html
Here. Read this...

Rape culture of White Christian countries

White Christian countries which include USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many European countries are extremely unsafe for women and have high levels of sexual crimes against women including violence, sexual assaults and rapes. India on the other hand has 90% less cases of rapes as compared to them.

Full details here:

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/rape-culture-of-white-christian-countries.81169/
 

Hari Sud

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China - US Trade Tensions


Chinese are more likely to be losers in the end, no matter which way the trade tensions between China and US end. China has been the net winner in the free trade and globalization perpetuated by President Clinton in 1992. Before that Chinese exported a paltry sum of $10 to $15 billion to the US. It was during Reagan Administration that China was induced into a big friend, if it back stabbed Russia (Soviet Union) from the East when US and NATO will confront them from the West. The Chinese went along with this US policy provided US paid for Chinese developments. This policy took its full roots during Clinton Administration when all the smoke stack industry from the US was taken lock, stock and barrel to China together with FDI to build newer factories in that respect. By roughly 2010 at the rate of about $100 billion a year, the Chinese had received about a trillion dollars in FDI, export market were opened to import tax free goods and Chinese currency Yuan was pegged low enough that goods from China were cheaper than anybody else. The Chinese exports to US zoomed to $500 billion and a similar design was followed by Europe and Japan, because US had taken the lead. The stock market soared up with cheaper imports with only part of the benefits passed on to the consumers, rest retained by the businessmen. The US imported $506 billion in goods from China last year, and Trump has threatened to slap duties on effectively all imports from the Asian nation. China imported $130 billion in goods from the US in 2017, according to US figures. By about 2012, about 40% of Chinese GDP was exports only. The incoming cash was a boon to China. They started to rebuild their infrastructure like no other place. Where as US had got one hundred years to build their infrastructure, the Chinese were trying to rebuild it in 30 years. With all the money at their disposal, they could do it.


Post Clinton, Chinese began to openly copy Western manufacturing technology, their intellectual property rights and copy many other things. When US objected mildly, they arm twisted the highly profitable honchos of the stock market, hence US did not object too much. Moreover, the Chinese was taking full advantage of political and terror turmoil at the start of this century and not so competent Obama Administration, who preferred to let the sleeping dog lie.


This position of Chinese exporting to US about $520 billion worth of consumer goods and other intermediate products and in return buying only $100 billion worth of goods could not continue forever. Chinese wished to take advantage as long as they could. No nation in the world can sustain that kind of negative balancing trade. US had lost 10 to 15 million jobs which were never going to come back. That high ideals of retraining the labor force in the service industry were a high ideal, not very practical. Manufacturing Jobs permanently lost by 45 to 55 years age group cannot be suddenly transferred to service sector. Unemployment soared to 6.2%.


One cause for President Trump’s election, although the Democrats will tell you much more, was midwestern US states were looking at lack of prosperity. Precise reason - manufacturing jobs have vanished to China.


This is what President Trump began his term to reverse. He liked to bring the jobs back, force Chinese to buy more from US, end theft of intellectual property rights and permanently end arm twisting of American businesses to part with very carefully built innovative manufacturing technology. They were receiving it free by letting the manufacturers that without these techniques, cheaper products are not possible.


Here is what Trump did immediately after he took over the administration. To lead the Chinese into a false sense of security, he initiated a trade fight with Canada/Mexico. He also told Europe that easy export days to US are over, but his primary target was China. Initial target was $25 billion worth of exports with 20% import tariff to be escalated later to $200 billion worth of incoming products.


That stunned the Chinese. Although they hollered & cried and used their tremendous paid publicity stunt to force Trump to change his mind but nothing was working. That 20% wall will make Chinese goods more or less at par with if these were made in the US.


Under Chinese and US businessman pressure Trump could buckle, but there is no sign of it. Privately the politicians and business community are pleased at these actions. Business paid lobby by China is overwhelming all this private glee.


Net results in two years, (by the time re-election is due):


1. The Chinese will be buying a lot more from US (more US Jobs).

2. That 20% wall will force, establishment of US Manufacuring.

3. The currency advantage which China has enjoyed will end.

4. Open Intellectual property theft will end.

5. The manufacturing technology will stay in-house in the US.

6. Chinese exports and Imports will begin to balance or close to it.

7. That export cash, which has intimidated Asia will cease.

8. That intimidating military buildup by China will pause.

9. Other developing countries will take a chance to buy & sell to US. Etc.
 

Flame Thrower

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I kind of Agree with your assumptions, but I feel that we're missing something.

Lately Trump had opened too many fronts...

That doesn't go well in long run....The mid term is kind of coming, let's see the results
 

ezsasa

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China - US Trade Tensions


Chinese are more likely to be losers in the end, no matter which way the trade tensions between China and US end. China has been the net winner in the free trade and globalization perpetuated by President Clinton in 1992. Before that Chinese exported a paltry sum of $10 to $15 billion to the US. It was during Reagan Administration that China was induced into a big friend, if it back stabbed Russia (Soviet Union) from the East when US and NATO will confront them from the West. The Chinese went along with this US policy provided US paid for Chinese developments. This policy took its full roots during Clinton Administration when all the smoke stack industry from the US was taken lock, stock and barrel to China together with FDI to build newer factories in that respect. By roughly 2010 at the rate of about $100 billion a year, the Chinese had received about a trillion dollars in FDI, export market were opened to import tax free goods and Chinese currency Yuan was pegged low enough that goods from China were cheaper than anybody else. The Chinese exports to US zoomed to $500 billion and a similar design was followed by Europe and Japan, because US had taken the lead. The stock market soared up with cheaper imports with only part of the benefits passed on to the consumers, rest retained by the businessmen. The US imported $506 billion in goods from China last year, and Trump has threatened to slap duties on effectively all imports from the Asian nation. China imported $130 billion in goods from the US in 2017, according to US figures. By about 2012, about 40% of Chinese GDP was exports only. The incoming cash was a boon to China. They started to rebuild their infrastructure like no other place. Where as US had got one hundred years to build their infrastructure, the Chinese were trying to rebuild it in 30 years. With all the money at their disposal, they could do it.


Post Clinton, Chinese began to openly copy Western manufacturing technology, their intellectual property rights and copy many other things. When US objected mildly, they arm twisted the highly profitable honchos of the stock market, hence US did not object too much. Moreover, the Chinese was taking full advantage of political and terror turmoil at the start of this century and not so competent Obama Administration, who preferred to let the sleeping dog lie.


This position of Chinese exporting to US about $520 billion worth of consumer goods and other intermediate products and in return buying only $100 billion worth of goods could not continue forever. Chinese wished to take advantage as long as they could. No nation in the world can sustain that kind of negative balancing trade. US had lost 10 to 15 million jobs which were never going to come back. That high ideals of retraining the labor force in the service industry were a high ideal, not very practical. Manufacturing Jobs permanently lost by 45 to 55 years age group cannot be suddenly transferred to service sector. Unemployment soared to 6.2%.


One cause for President Trump’s election, although the Democrats will tell you much more, was midwestern US states were looking at lack of prosperity. Precise reason - manufacturing jobs have vanished to China.


This is what President Trump began his term to reverse. He liked to bring the jobs back, force Chinese to buy more from US, end theft of intellectual property rights and permanently end arm twisting of American businesses to part with very carefully built innovative manufacturing technology. They were receiving it free by letting the manufacturers that without these techniques, cheaper products are not possible.


Here is what Trump did immediately after he took over the administration. To lead the Chinese into a false sense of security, he initiated a trade fight with Canada/Mexico. He also told Europe that easy export days to US are over, but his primary target was China. Initial target was $25 billion worth of exports with 20% import tariff to be escalated later to $200 billion worth of incoming products.


That stunned the Chinese. Although they hollered & cried and used their tremendous paid publicity stunt to force Trump to change his mind but nothing was working. That 20% wall will make Chinese goods more or less at par with if these were made in the US.


Under Chinese and US businessman pressure Trump could buckle, but there is no sign of it. Privately the politicians and business community are pleased at these actions. Business paid lobby by China is overwhelming all this private glee.


Net results in two years, (by the time re-election is due):


1. The Chinese will be buying a lot more from US (more US Jobs).

2. That 20% wall will force, establishment of US Manufacuring.

3. The currency advantage which China has enjoyed will end.

4. Open Intellectual property theft will end.

5. The manufacturing technology will stay in-house in the US.

6. Chinese exports and Imports will begin to balance or close to it.

7. That export cash, which has intimidated Asia will cease.

8. That intimidating military buildup by China will pause.

9. Other developing countries will take a chance to buy & sell to US. Etc.
Good one sirji....

How does china's cash reserves play into this? They do have cash to keep giving subsidies to their businesses for 4-5 years minimum.
 

ezsasa

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I kind of Agree with your assumptions, but I feel that we're missing something.

Lately Trump had opened too many fronts...

That doesn't go well in long run....The mid term is kind of coming, let's see the results
he may have opened economic fronts, but he is also closing military fronts. Noko is the only strategic front he has opened so far.
ISIS have gone extinct. syrian war is almost coming to an end, because americans stopped supporting the rebels. inspite of this he hasn't reduced military spending.
 

Bhurki

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I kind of Agree with your assumptions, but I feel that we're missing something.

Lately Trump had opened too many fronts...

That doesn't go well in long run....The mid term is kind of coming, let's see the results
Other than for China, All those fronts are just scare tactics to make the countries on the other side of the table to agree to conditions more favourable to the US. Recently, canada and mexico and europe have all been subjected to the "tariff tweets". Trump is capitalising on the fear regarding the China situation. The only true target is to challenge the tech capability creation in China by either halting or slowing any kind of IP gain that could be achieved.
If the middle kingdom's steps are somehow slowed down for long enough , it could get frozen into a middle income trap like Brazil and not be able to challenge hegemony of the US.
Its much more like wipe out or get wiped out kind of a scenario for the US here.
 

Bhurki

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Good one sirji....

How does china's cash reserves play into this? They do have cash to keep giving subsidies to their businesses for 4-5 years minimum.
Subsidizing would mean playing right into trump's hands... Devaluation of yuan is already an indirect subsidy.. It could have helped if they were facing a definitive leader who didnt change course every second.
But trump just increased the propsed tariff on $200 billion of imports from 10% to 25%..
Short term losses will almost all befall the end user in US, since the tariffed imports to China can be replaced with competitvely priced imports from other countries as Alibaba suggested in its recent quarter announcement.
Chinese exports however will fare far worse, unless the authorities find a new way to route the goods into US. Any hint of a cheat from China's side will lead to an even more aggressive stance from trump.
All he is focussed on is how to negate china from closing the tech gap with US.
It could be a leap of faith, but if somehow China does get rid of its dependance on exports to US.. And if the two countries get disentangled economically.. It'll just fuel military ambitions against each other.. #ColdWar2 has just begun.
 

Hari Sud

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Subsidizing would mean playing right into trump's hands... Devaluation of yuan is already an indirect subsidy.. It could have helped if they were facing a definitive leader who didnt change course every second.
But trump just increased the propsed tariff on $200 billion of imports from 10% to 25%..
Short term losses will almost all befall the end user in US, since the tariffed imports to China can be replaced with competitvely priced imports from other countries as Alibaba suggested in its recent quarter announcement.
Chinese exports however will fare far worse, unless the authorities find a new way to route the goods into US. Any hint of a cheat from China's side will lead to an even more aggressive stance from trump.
All he is focussed on is how to negate china from closing the tech gap with US.
It could be a leap of faith, but if somehow China does get rid of its dependance on exports to US.. And if the two countries get disentangled economically.. It'll just fuel military ambitions against each other.. #ColdWar2 has just begun.

Partially correct but in entirety, Trump is focussed on bringing all those manufacturing jobs which China took away from 1999 to 2015 (10 million) back to US. Tariffs is the means to make sure that locally made goods are competetitive.
 

Bhurki

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Other than for China, All those fronts are just scare tactics to make the countries on the other side of the table to agree to conditions more favourable to the US. Recently, canada and mexico and europe have all been subjected to the "tariff tweets". Trump is capitalising on the fear regarding the China situation. The only true target is to challenge the tech capability creation in China by either halting or slowing any kind of IP gain that could be achieved.
If the middle kingdom's steps are somehow slowed down for long enough , it could get frozen into a middle income trap like Brazil and not be able to challenge hegemony of the US.
Its much more like wipe out or get wiped out kind of a scenario for the US here.
Just a couple of hours ago... This tactic seems to have worked against mexico as it agreed to renegotiating NAFTA in USs' favor
 

Bhurki

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Partially correct but in entirety, Trump is focussed on bringing all those manufacturing jobs which China took away from 1999 to 2015 (10 million) back to US. Tariffs is the means to make sure that locally made goods are competetitive.
If anything, China is the reason why a $20,000 car didnt start costing $100,000 in the US.. Those manufacturing jobs will never come back to the US. How can a country thats obliged to pay a wage of atleast $12/hr and not let people work more than 40 hours a week win against people who'll work twice the hours for half the price? If anything it'll only make things ridiculously expensive.
The only jobs that US can sustain are high capability service jobs that create enough reason for somebody to be paid an average of $70kpa
Let alone US, even China recently has been having problems maintaining low tech jobs like footwear, clothing etc because they are slipping into the hands of low wage workers of Bangladesh and Vietnam.
Thats the reason it wants to increase its high tech capabilites hence the China 2025 shibang..
 

Kshatriya87

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China’s foreign exchange reserves fall more than expected to US$3 trillion

September figures show sharper than forecast drop as yuan continues to depreciate against the dollar


PUBLISHED : Sunday, 07 October, 2018, 6:26pm
UPDATED : Sunday, 07 October, 2018, 10:26pm

Reserves fell US$22.69 billion in September to US$3.09 trillion, the biggest drop since February, compared with a decline of US$8.23 billion in August, central bank data showed on Sunday.

The yuan fell for the sixth straight month in September as the dollar remained buoyant, suggesting Beijing may be in no rush to intervene because a weaker currency would support its exporters amid the escalating trade war with the US.
 

Hari Sud

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If anything, China is the reason why a $20,000 car didnt start costing $100,000 in the US.. Those manufacturing jobs will never come back to the US. How can a country thats obliged to pay a wage of atleast $12/hr and not let people work more than 40 hours a week win against people who'll work twice the hours for half the price? If anything it'll only make things ridiculously expensive.
The only jobs that US can sustain are high capability service jobs that create enough reason for somebody to be paid an average of $70kpa
Let alone US, even China recently has been having problems maintaining low tech jobs like footwear, clothing etc because they are slipping into the hands of low wage workers of Bangladesh and Vietnam.
Thats the reason it wants to increase its high tech capabilites hence the China 2025 shibang..

If there is 20% import duty on everything comes out of China then quite a bit of manufacturing will move out of China. Already American companies have begun the process of evaluating shifting manufacture out.

Yuan has to fall further, a lot further to neutralize all Chinese advantages which they had managed to grab since Clinton time.
 

no smoking

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I kind of Agree with your assumptions, but I feel that we're missing something.
Because his assumption is wrong. His assumption is that Chinese will win if Chinese can resist the US pressure and continue her economic policy of last 3 decades:

Continue to produce cheap low-end products;
Continue to keep FX rate low;
Continue to keep large international trade surplus;
Continue to ignore IP right;

But the simple fact is that they can't. Their economy is coming to the stage that they have to change. That is why they announce a big cut of tariff even before starting the negotiation.
 

ezsasa

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Apparently chinese are committing frauds in American stock markets.
yup, i know this is part of american propaganda....
=================
The China Hustle
 

asianobserve

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Armand2REP

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asianobserve

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A few years ago the local debt was $2 trillion, last year it was $4 trillion, now it is $6 trillion and all after the CCP swore that it had come to an end. Oh well... what is a few trillion among friends?
These are debts of Chinese local governments that are not even in their balance sheets.
 

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