China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and IOR

nrj

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

Your approach is too defensive.

Chinese are too short legged in IOR.

They are testing our waters, if you do not tell them who is the boss, their military planner will jump in after trade planners.

I wouldn't give them a benefit of doubt without a good check. And there is no other other option to test their resolve without being aggressive. If they are here for business they will simply pack their bags from a unstable nation, if they are here for military objective [heck they are here for military objectives, we never interrupted their trade lanes rather guarded it for free, they know we wouldn't because of USA et al., why their is urgency for so called securing them religiously now (string of pearls)] then their is no holds bar for us. Our navy is more trigger happy than anyone else on this planet they just need a go from New Delhi in that case.
Military response to proxy battle involving discretionary power of regional state ? I don't think so. That is like China sending warships to Australia because they threw out Huawei. Last thing you want is little regional country crying on international stage for bullying, it nullifies our arguments in SCS.

The response must come to substantiate economic/trade dependence of these smaller neighbors on India. Salvo of Indian companies forming lobby in such foreign land is only the key for serving state interests. I repeat it again, India can not match financial or development packages PRC has to lure these nations. Any investor looks for fat returns & when China turns to Maldives to repay in unparallel form, they will realize whom they've sold themselves to.
 

hit&run

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

Salvo of Indian companies forming lobby in such foreign land is only the key for serving state interests.
We have been doing it. That is why we were there in the first place. And regardless of our efforts they have back stabbed us (I do not see a private endeavour on its own without our state's backing).

I repeat it again, India can not match financial or development packages PRC has to lure these nations. Any investor looks for fat returns & when China turns to Maldives to repay in unparallel form, they will realize whom they've sold themselves to.
I don't believe nation like India can not offer packages like PRC. What GMR endeavour was worth ? Just few millions. The kind of package PRC is offering is the package they themselves want to be offered to them that is their needs of security calculus. It may be natural or artificial, but serving Chinese well. May be they have designed it not in days but years.

On your point of small nations crying at international forum then I would say these forums haven't done a squat against anyone especially those who had good reasons, fit into their grand strategic calculations (and today we are fitting into it ) and good standing amongst them. Sri Lanka is already ousted because of US lead charge on Human right violation against them in UN. For Maldives you do not need navy to invade but political manipulation and few petrol around their waters.


BTW your whole point is based on squeak clean business practises and other trade games, but hasn't this thread's article by OP debunked it ?
 
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hit&run

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

Just adding @nrj

Huawei is kicked out of Australia not because someone else is giving them better package rather their broadband upgrade plan was stalled because of that. They have kicked them out because they were posing threat to their national security. Australia do not have itzy bitzy compulsions like India has pleasing Chinese, they are openly giving military bases to USA in Darwin.

Better example is American invasion of Iraq and French in Libya for oil. All that you/we need is good reason :cool2:.
 
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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

I don't know why after decades of being fooled by the Chinese the Govt still believes
anything China has to say.
 

Ray

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

Every country in the world tries to build its influence in other countries. If it were not so, then one could have just the Ambassador and the First Secretary with the required secretarial staff instead of having the host of diplomats.

Building influence is not arm twisting alone. There are many ways it is done, mostly overt and some very covert.

Buying influence of important political, bureaucratic, military, intelligence, police and industry personnel and honchos is the name of the game and very much on the cards.

If China has succeeded in the Maldives, being so far away and not even ethnically similar that they can blend into the crowd, then why cannot India?

It is sheer apathy and taking things for granted.

BTW, what is 'lobbying'? ;)

It is peddling for building influence.

If indeed something is good and urgently required and from the best in the world and sold competitively, would it be necessary to lobby?

______________

@Yusuf,

You are right that the Maldives issue is not about GMR alone.

It has all started with the unseating of Gayoom and forcing Maldives to become a democracy, election of the last President, his rather controversial ouster, and then the silly chap ranting about India and throwing out of GMR.

Time for India to gird up its loins!
 
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Yusuf

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

There is certainly no military solution to this crisis.

We can put economic and diplomatic pressure. But china has more than us.

Like I said we will have to tag team with the US which needs an alternative to Diego Garica and Maldives cannot be lost to China for the US too. Indian and US interests coincide on this issue.
 

Ray

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

No military pressure should be given except to nudge a 'threat in being'.
 

desicanuk

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

The problem with Indian governments is a pathetic lack of any strategic thinking.We have been sleepwalking since 1947.The PRC on the other hand has a master plan and they have been playing it piece at a time - like a good chess player.However, the unsecure PRC leadership is also suffering from unhealthy obsessive paranoia vis a vis US and India.Thats why we and the US are at the receiving end.We unfortunately are saddled with a political system that gives us inept and corrupt ideologues for leaders who do not have the nations best interest at heart.Political expediency rules the day.To take on PRC we need to cement alliances with our enemy's enemies and most important we need sustained double digit economic growth for a long time.I dont think the current leadership at the centre has the courage and guts to carry this out. There is only one person
who can do the job.Modi.
 

Yusuf

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

Actually there is a way a military solution can be bright around and get a regime change. RAW should instigate a protest against the govt. Also get a few to counter this and support the govt and burn down the Indian embassy. Bingo. We have a reason to intervene. Devious ain't it :D
 

roma

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

when the usa-nato has completed cleaning out the middle east ...guess who's next ....maldives , diego garcia and a handful of others .....errrr .....where Al Queda has some secret hideouts ?? ie where china dragon has too much influence !! ) :laugh:
 

no smoking

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

Like I said we will have to tag team with the US which needs an alternative to Diego Garica and Maldives cannot be lost to China for the US too. Indian and US interests coincide on this issue.
On the contrary, in indian ocean, US and China share the same interest: contain India's influence. After all, Chinese forces is close to zero in that area while as the regional power, india imposes lot more threat to US's dominance in this area. You don't see that US military and political leaders make lots noises about Chinese movement in india ocean.

So, basically, US interest is:

1. China increase influence in India ocean
2. India influence comes into South China Sea.
 

Yusuf

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

On the contrary, in indian ocean, US and China share the same interest: contain India's influence. After all, Chinese forces is close to zero in that area while as the regional power, india imposes lot more threat to US's dominance in this area. You don't see that US military and political leaders make lots noises about Chinese movement in india ocean.

So, basically, US interest is:

1. China increase influence in India ocean
2. India influence comes into South China Sea.
What did you have early in the morning?
India US same page. US inviting China to share Indian Ocean :rotflmao:
 

nimo_cn

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

What did you have early in the morning?
India US same page. US inviting China to share Indian Ocean :rotflmao:
Americans won't invite China to share Indian Ocean, but they are happy see China countering India's influence in that region. When China and India are fighting each other, it means Americans could retain the dorminance over that region without much resources.
 

no smoking

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

What did you have early in the morning?
India US same page. US inviting China to share Indian Ocean :rotflmao:
Well, you should ask youself what is US best interest in Indian Ocean?

US strategy is not specifically aiming at China but keeping the power balance in any strategic area. In another words, keeping any regional super power in check is the goal of USA's strategy. In western Pacific, this power is China. In indian ocean, it is india.

Currently, China imposes more threat to US's global dominance than india. However, China's power is till far from mature. When China is still struggling to confront overwhelming US navy forces in its neighbourhood, it is laughable to believe that China can challenge any power in other area.

It is in US's interest to see China coming in indian ocean. It will reduce US's burden and distract india's attention. Actually, both sides has been working together to aid Pak for long time before 911, that will tell you what US thinks about india's role in Indian Ocean.

So, no, India and US is not sharing the bed in Indian Ocean.
 

K Factor

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

On the contrary, in indian ocean, US and China share the same interest: contain India's influence. After all, Chinese forces is close to zero in that area while as the regional power, india imposes lot more threat to US's dominance in this area. You don't see that US military and political leaders make lots noises about Chinese movement in india ocean.

So, basically, US interest is:

1. China increase influence in India ocean
2. India influence comes into South China Sea.
Contrary to your name, you seem to be smoking some really good stuff.
Firstly, there are no conflicts between US and India in the IOR and secondly, even if there were, India's influence is not significant enough to cause concern to the US.

@Fellow Indian Members
While we have been venting our frustration at the lack of foreign strategy and long term strategic vision, it seems to be a lost cause with the current government.
While OT, point in case would be the latest visit of Rehman Malik (including the insult to Capt. Kalia) and the progress India has made into 26/11 investigation and Pakistan's assistance, and even after that, they allowed the Pak cricket team to come here and play.

India has been lacking direction in its foreign policy right since Nehru and it seems that this dynasty will not be satisfied until it has led India to its doom.
 

Ray

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

The US is interested that India takes over some of the burden that the US has in the Indian Ocean.
 

no smoking

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

Contrary to your name, you seem to be smoking some really good stuff.
Firstly, there are no conflicts between US and India in the IOR
Well, there are no conflicts between you and americans unless you believe that US fleet came to help you in 1971.

Even if there were, India's influence is not significant enough to cause concern to the US.
But india is the only one has the potential to Challenge US in Indian Ocean. That is enough for US to keep an eye on you.
 

amoy

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

Who lost Maldives - to Uncle Sam? - Indian Punchline Are Chinese late for the feast again? :tsk:

The signs are that the US will finally secure access to the highly strategic Gan air base located in the southern Addu Atoll which is some 700 kilometers only from the Pentagon's massive military base of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. For the benefit of the uninitiated, Gan was originally built by Britain, which was a key operational base during World War II and with great reluctance, it handed it over to the Maldives only in 1976.

Britain of course realised its folly in vacating the base and the US has ever since been seeking to regain Gan, which is the southernmost island in the Maldivian chain and is ideally located right in the middle of the Indian Ocean between Diego Garcia and the Persian Gulf and Diego Garcia and Singapore. But the stoutly independent Maldives government kept saying 'No' through the Cold War period.

Now, as James Bond put it, superpowers also trust the maxim, "Never Say Never Again". Uncle Sam didn't give up. The latest naval exercise by the US Marines with the non-existent Maldivian Navy shows that the Maldivian regime which is under immense, unprecedented international pressure, is caving in.
 

K Factor

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

Well, there are no conflicts between you and americans unless you believe that US fleet came to help you in 1971.
Today's date: 19 December 2012.
Japan also came to China in late 30s and 40s, and China just dropped her pants and bent over. World has changed a lot since then.

But india is the only one has the potential to Challenge US in Indian Ocean. That is enough for US to keep an eye on you.
US can send any country in the world back to the stone age in 7 days in a conventional war. You can keep smoking the good stuff.
 

ice berg

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Re: China behind scrapped GMR deal to extend footprint in Maldives and

Today's date: 19 December 2012.
Japan also came to China in late 30s and 40s, and China just dropped her pants and bent over. World has changed a lot since then.


US can send any country in the world back to the stone age in 7 days in a conventional war. You can keep smoking the good stuff.
You are the one who need to keep smoking the good stuff. How long did it take to bring down Saddam and Taliban? 7 days? In your wet dream. Fanboy
 

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