China and the United States Are Preparing for War

[sgarg]

That's exactly why I said what happens if and when China wins. Once they win, there are no other opponents.

It does not matter what happens AFTER. This scenario is irrelevant now.

India has put up with unilateral power of England and USA for very long time. To assume that suddenly India will vanish due to some Chinese action is nonsense.

 

[sgarg]

Look at the positive side.

India was insulated from global turmoil which happened due to mismanagement by people outside India.

• We rode the sanctions.
• We rode the IT bubble.
• We rode the Housing Bubble.

It is a very good thing that the Rs. is not fully convertible. We do not play by other's rules. Other's rules are bound to be designed to benefit them, at our expense.

As long as India continues to produce the bare essentials of the nation, it will survive. Our two deficiencies are in oil and land. Nothing else.

Actually India sits in a very strategic location. It will always get its oil. Land is another issue. We cannot do much about land at this time.

 

[sgarg]

To "try" China,
Hong Kong is not valid target.

This is not how West thinks. It thinks that its propaganda will reach the people of China who will buy Western argument and discontent will follow.
USA is interested in discontent in society as it reduces economic and military capacity of the country.

 

[sgarg]

If not , West will try China first.

It may also be that China has been so compliant so far. While China has followed its own foreign policy, it has continued to support the Western economies. Maybe West needs China for that.

So Russia is the first target as Russia is the path to China while China provides the means to attack Russia. I hope you get my point.

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario of Russia joining NATO. Technically it can happen as there is no ideological reason in the way.

How will China adjust to such a possibility.

Also let me remind you that Russians are fairly good in science. A Russia joining Europe in a single bloc makes everybody else insignificant.

 

[no smoking]

@no smoking, your views have been known to me as strategy of China for more than a decade. In fact Russia tried to imitate China but failed.

No, Russia or USSR was never able to do that for 2 reasons:
1. She failed to create an export orientation economy;
2. She never wants to fit herself into the western dominate trading system;

China's size is the biggest protection China has. Ultimately it is the people of a country that make or break that country.

Wrong, the size didn't stop British conquering India in 18 century and the size didn't stop Japanese invading China in 1930s.

But China has given immense economic benefit to the West. This is what has kept the West going in the face of declining and ageing population.

And China has been gaining immense economic benefit from the west too. There is no such a deal that only one side win while another is losing. That is also the reason why West can't treat China as Russia. Cutting Chinese from this system means they will lose a lot.

The bonds and fx reserves provide buying power to China today, but will be useless in a serious crisis, specially if the crisis is between China and the West. The situation will be similar to Russia today as West will move to block and/or seize the money.

You can easily track the sale of Russia oil tank while it is almost impossible to track those bonds and fx reservers since most of them is hiding in the computer network. Even the whole western world can forget the immense economic benefit given by China every year, how can they stop Chinese using these money to buy from other countries.

Until today, there are hundreds of millions of workers/farmers/traders within western world are living upon the trade with China;
Almost every multinational is making huge profit from its investment in China;
Most of developing country is counting on Chinese purchase to pay back their debts owing to western banks;
No, it is 10 times harder to block China as what they did to Russia.

 

[no smoking]

It may also be that China has been so compliant so far. While China has followed its own foreign policy, it has continued to support the Western economies. Maybe West needs China for that.

So Russia is the first target as Russia is the path to China while China provides the means to attack Russia. I hope you get my point.

You forget that China is providing financial support to Russia at the mean time. Now, do you think who is benefiting this "war" between Russia and Western world?

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario of Russia joining NATO. Technically it can happen as there is no ideological reason in the way.

How will China adjust to such a possibility.

Allowing Russia to join NATO is like putting Europe in their hand. Technically it can happen if every western leader's brain is turned off.

Also let me remind you that Russians are fairly good in science. A Russia joining Europe in a single bloc makes everybody else insignificant.

Yes, it will make everybody insignificant, including US.
How can US deal with this powerful bloc? Find a new partner!
Who is the best choice? Oh, yes, CHINA!

 

[CCP]

Relax, only "war" between China and US will be like this.

FIRST ROUND KO FOR 7FT HEAVYWEIGHT TAISHAN (VIDEO)
World Boxing News - First round KO for 7ft heavyweight Taishan (video)

 

[sgarg]

No, Russia or USSR was never able to do that for 2 reasons:
1. She failed to create an export orientation economy;
2. She never wants to fit herself into the western dominate trading system;

Wrong, the size didn't stop British conquering India in 18 century and the size didn't stop Japanese invading China in 1930s.

And China has been gaining immense economic benefit from the west too. There is no such a deal that only one side win while another is losing. That is also the reason why West can't treat China as Russia. Cutting Chinese from this system means they will lose a lot.

You can easily track the sale of Russia oil tank while it is almost impossible to track those bonds and fx reservers since most of them is hiding in the computer network. Even the whole western world can forget the immense economic benefit given by China every year, how can they stop Chinese using these money to buy from other countries.

Until today, there are hundreds of millions of workers/farmers/traders within western world are living upon the trade with China;
Almost every multinational is making huge profit from its investment in China;
Most of developing country is counting on Chinese purchase to pay back their debts owing to western banks;
No, it is 10 times harder to block China as what they did to Russia.

1. Interesting ideas. I agree that China is winning and that is exactly why West is so fearful of Russia's rearmament, as it sees a viable challenge emerging from the East.
2. However export oriented economy is not necessarily a strength. It can be a big weakness in the times of serious economic contraction. This labour force cannot be easily used in the domestic economy.
3. The people depending on Chinese trade will not matter in the decisions of the Anglo-American empire.
4. Tracking US bond sales is as easy as tracking Russian oil tanker in the information based economy.
5. I agree that China has gained a lot from the West, and possibly continues to gain in terms of knowledge and technology.
6. You still do not get one point - they want to ASSIMILATE RUSSIA. Read the propaganda carefully. They no longer talk about destroying Russia. China is not so fortunate. Your culture and systems are incompatible with West.
7. China is becoming an EXISTENTIAL threat to USA which even USSR never was.
8. They broke up USSR to remove USSR threat. Their modus-operandi is same - replace bigger States with smaller States to remove threat. They may want to do the same with China.
9. What they did to Russia should be replaced with what they did to USSR. Russia is actually more successful than USSR on many levels. It enjoys much better lifestyle. There are no crippling shortages of consumer goods.

 

[sgarg]

You forget that China is providing financial support to Russia at the mean time. Now, do you think who is benefiting this "war" between Russia and Western world?
Allowing Russia to join NATO is like putting Europe in their hand. Technically it can happen if every western leader's brain is turned off.
Yes, it will make everybody insignificant, including US.
How can US deal with this powerful bloc? Find a new partner!
Who is the best choice? Oh, yes, CHINA!

What we have seen so far is Western attempts to assimilate Russia. Russia taking over Europe through NATO is an interesting thought which I have not seen expressed through any of discussions I have had so far. Can you back up your claim through some links.

US does not have to deal with the new bloc. The people who control EU also control USA. They are speaking in one voice because puppeteer is the same.

Germans are in control in Europe and USA is in control in the Americas. They both are components of the same power today.

USA forming a bloc with China is perhaps a Chinese dream, which is as invalid as an Indian dream to form a bloc with USA.

You said "China providing financial support to Russia" - an oil pipeline deal is NOT "financial support". Can you provide some examples of Chinese financial support to Russia??

 

[CCP]

You said "China providing financial support to Russia" - an oil pipeline deal is NOT "financial support". Can you provide some examples of Chinese financial support to Russia??

China to prepay $25 billion for Russian gas; Gazprom gives no details | Arcticgas.gov

 

[prohumanity]

CHINA'S HOLDING OF US TREASURY BONDS:
History need to be reviewed first. In 1970s, Nixon made a deal with China that whatever China manufactures, US is going to buy all that stuff. Chinese factories mushroomed and kept m selling goods to US consumers ...making a lot of money. Those profits could not be converted into YUAN because that could have led to increase in value of YUAN and making Chinese exports expensive ..in turn leading to decline in profits due to less demand in US. US consumer lost its power due to excessive debt in around 2006 and that caused sharp decrease in demand for Chinese stuff in US. By this time, China had
accumulated US bonds worth ONE trillion dollars. China is stuck ! If it sells US bonds, it has to convert the proceeds into YUAN and that leads to sharp appreciation of YUAN and Chinese economy goes into a deep recession. Yes, the US treasury bonds will also go down in price and their yield goes up causing high interest rates in US and decline in US property and other assets. So, both China and US lose . They are stuck in a bad marriage and can not divorce due to financial reasons. Therefore, Status quo continues. If China forces US, US can just print dollar and give these less valuable dollars to
China causing immense losses to China. However, US loses its reputation and trustworthiness by doing this.
Lately, China is running all over the World to find investment opportunities to gradually diversify and gradually take out some of this money lying in the US. Folks, this process is going to take 5 to 10 years at least. China is in big difficulty and has no way to easily get out of this trap.

 

[sgarg]

China to prepay $25 billion for Russian gas; Gazprom gives no details | Arcticgas.gov

This is a commercial deal, not financial support.

I think Russia has to build pipelines, and Chinese will get contracts for a lot of work. This should not be treated as financial support.

The biggest item is Yuan/Ruble swap - Russia's ability to buy in China outside dollar system. We need to see if and how that happens.

 

[sgarg]

@prohumanity, you are oversimplifying the situation.

 

[CCP]

This is a commercial deal, not financial support.

Ok, can you find any other deal that prepay 25 billion before the deal finalized?

 

[sgarg]

Ok, can you find any other deal that prepay 25 billion before the deal finalized?

Honestly we don't know too much about this deal. You can post better details if you know. However you will have to show me something concrete outside this deal.

I feel that China can do a lot for Russia but I do not see much so far.

 

[Kshatriya87]

"China invades India" is very unlikely. A border skirmish or even a limited war is NOT an invasion. You have used the word "invasion" very loosely.

China needs to have very strong reason to invade India. What will China accomplish?

My view is that a serious war between India and China is very unlikely. India does not want a war with China. I have no idea if China wants a war with India but I do not see very strong argument for such an initiative from China's side.

China containing influence of India in South Asia is a totally different issue. This is a sort of competition which will not be handled in a military manner.

The thread started with China USA war. War = Invasion. Hence the word has been used, not lightly.

As for why they will invade? China has been known for expansionism. They always want more territory. They don't need anymore reason than that, especially when Pakis are always sitting on their horses ready to take any opportunity to help them attack India.

 

[Kshatriya87]

It does not matter what happens AFTER. This scenario is irrelevant now.

India has put up with unilateral power of England and USA for very long time. To assume that suddenly India will vanish due to some Chinese action is nonsense.

Nobody assumed or said that India will vanish.

 

[sorcerer]

China to prepay $25 billion for Russian gas; Gazprom gives no details | Arcticgas.gov

Yes, exactly, you found a major example for chinese trade with Russia but not for financial support.
It could also be a stipulated requirement by the Gazprom put forward to China and China is forced to pay that to secure the oil deals. Cant discount that possiblity too.right?

 

[sgarg]

The thread started with China USA war. War = Invasion. Hence the word has been used, not lightly.

As for why they will invade? China has been known for expansionism. They always want more territory. They don't need anymore reason than that, especially when Pakis are always sitting on their horses ready to take any opportunity to help them attack India.

China took what it could easily. The further expansion is NOT EASY. Every expansion further will entail a bloody war.
I do not agree that "China is known for expansionism". China is new to the game.

 

[sgarg]

Yes, exactly, you found a major example for chinese trade with Russia but not for financial support.
It could also be a stipulated requirement by the Gazprom put forward to China and China is forced to pay that to secure the oil deals. Cant discount that possiblity too.right?

Well @CCP is correct that this deal is big and helps Russia. I would agree there. However I am not so convinced about the "advance" part.

We need to see the details. Such news makes it easy for Russian government to sell the deal to Russian public.