China and the United States Are Preparing for War

[roma]

i think there is cause for concern as they are most likely to go for a proxy war
and guess where ------ ? ----right next door or rather a little bit further in balochistan and nwfp areas

there are multiple objectives for the usa to desire to attack in those areas and for chipak to attempt to
defend.

usa objective amongst other things which are too obvious to mention will be to liberate sindh and balochistan
......no need to free nwfp as that is already virtually done ....usa will use ISIS presence which is already in packland

meanwhile it has been reported that china has found a new pair of pants in their wardrobe
---- it's called smartypants ! ...... they better put it on and prepare for one heck of a ride from the usa !

 

[asianobserve]

i think there is cause for concern as they are most likely to go for a proxy war
and guess where ------ ? ----right next door or rather a little bit further in balochistan and nwfp areas

there are multiple objectives for the usa to desire to attack in those areas and for chipak to attempt to
defend.

usa objective amongst other things which are too obvious to mention will be to liberate sindh and balochistan
......no need to free nwfp as that is already virtually done ....usa will use ISIS presence which is already in packland

meanwhile it has been reported that china has found a new pair of pants in their wardrobe
---- it's called smartypants ! ...... they better put it on and prepare for one heck of a ride from the usa !

Why look for issues to bug China with outside of China. The most serious issue that will keep China busy in the next 20 years are inside China from Tibet, Xinjiang region to domestic discontent. But I guess America will reserve the best for last?

 

[sgarg]

Muslims countries combined man power, oil wealth and economy is comparable to any super power. As soon as second world war is over and peace prevailed over europe and there is no power than can challenge them in the west they turned their attention towards Islam and communism.

They destroyed communism in 40 years and they are destroying muslim lands.

Not even the WOT is complete, rumour says they planned 5 wars.

Lets wait and see what is happening in Hongkong , if they succeed it spreads like a wild fire in China.

CCP will loose control of its power and in that place, who knows pro west govt. may come. Backed by these liberals who support democracy.

An ordinary chinese citizen is patriotic just like Indian, But similar to India they hate their govt. if not more.

I think I have given enough reasons, there are analysis and predictions but they all are mentioned in my posts.

The reasons you have given are well known.

The Muslims are not strong despite their numbers. There are many reasons - the primary being Muslim culture is a misfit in today's technology driven society.

Middle East is a mess and is actually dangerous for USA. The rise of extremism is consuming middle-east like anything never seen before.

There are no signs today that CCP is about to lose control. Hongkong is not such a big deal as you are making out.

You say Chinese hate their government. Really! Chinese only want one thing - money. Chinese rarely talk about their government. Chinese come from a regimented society where respect for superiors is drilled into mind from childhood.

 

[roma]

Why look for issues to bug China with outside of China. The most serious issue that will keep China busy in the next 20 years are inside China from Tibet, Xinjiang region to domestic discontent. But I guess America will reserve the best for last?

bro, - dont you feel that china has tibet very firmly inder control ? i mean they just round them up and
shoot em every time there the slightest upriising ?

and really china has the same iron-clad grip on uyghurstan as well

i liked your point of view but differ that china has their greatest problems in those two regions - in
fact i dont see those folks can do anything to destabilize china ......it's pakcland that can do that

i.el. packland might just be to china what vietnam was to the usa or even better what
afghanistan was to the ussr ....caused its break-up.

 

[sgarg]

Why look for issues to bug China with outside of China. The most serious issue that will keep China busy in the next 20 years are inside China from Tibet, Xinjiang region to domestic discontent. But I guess America will reserve the best for last?

I do not know who you are as you are posting from Malaysia. However I can tell you your post is frivolous.

Tibetan is not a central issue for China and any discontent in Tibet cannot affect mainstream China.

 

[roma]

Roma ji u are giving too much importance for Pork!stan.Is any body cares if tomorrow Somalia or Afg disintegrate NO,even they themselves don't care . Ind/US giving importance to Pork!stan only b'coz of TERRORISM.They day it ends its state sponsor terrorism no one gives iota for Pork!s,forget Ind/US even China.

well i agree with your point of view in so far as state sponsored terrorism goes

but still there's the question of the nukes they possess - the only member of the IOC ( islamic nations )
to possess nukes ..... and just as you mentioned india -usa , i think you have somehow not mentioned
an important ingredient in the glue that holds india-usa together .....it's called Israel

and terrorism or not, Israel is not forgetting about the nukes held by packland and sooner or even later
they want those removed and disassembled .....

i understand to some extent your wanting to downgrade the importance of packland ( ) but reality
( imho ) is that they do occupy a strategic position and until and unless the baloch sindhis and pakhtoons
get their independent nations, packland will just by geography, have strategic importance .

 

[asianobserve]

bro, - dont you feel that china has tibet very firmly inder control ? i mean they just round them up and
shoot em every time there the slightest upriising ?

and really china has the same iron-clad grip on uyghurstan as well

i liked your point of view but differ that china has their greatest problems in those two regions - in
fact i dont see those folks can do anything to destabilize china ......it's pakcland that can do that

i.el. packland might just be to china what vietnam was to the usa or even better what
afghanistan was to the ussr ....caused its break-up.

I may have went over board on Tibet but China is facing serious threat to its stability from its Muslim minority and their symphatizers.

 

[Virendra]

A mere nuke doesn't empower anyone. A big stick needs a strong person to wield it, else it loses value. That concludes the story of Pakistani nuke. It has suicidal value.

Coming back to the topic. I don't think the usual territorial border contagion applies to the case of Indo-China. Why? Because there's the Great Himalaya standing in the middle.
May be technology would make the Himalayas too irrelevant tomorrow, but that is yet to be seen. Till then, China can't easily get to India and India can't to China.
Once we have decent border infrastructure, containing the two theatres - Arunachal and Ladakh would be feasible. Because of the lethality of technology, future wars would be about smart pre-emption than strong reaction. So instead of border's length, having right missiles at right place and right time, with timely satellite inputs will determine whether and how much India slips into a war.
Despite all this, the naval zone is still open for any possibilities; and the contest is yet to begin there That is where India can still change the rules of the game.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

What ever it is.... whether they fight with each there or not... please do it quickly....


I AM READY WITH MY POPCORN..... HAVE TO PREPARE MY SAMOSAS, KACHORIS, BIRYANI, VEG MANCHURIA AND SO ON.........


START THE WAR......

India will just watch as a mere spectator......

 

[Glint]

Tibet but China is facing serious threat to its stability from its Muslim minority and their symphatizers.

Well, They aren't the first ones to face this problem.

 

[no smoking]

Why did China buy those bonds, if the guarantees associated with it are so flimsy ?

Because these bonds are another form of US dollars, and US dollar deposit has been playing as the backbone of RMB from 1980s.

When Chinese came back into the world trading system, there was one problem for every of its trading partners: how is Chinese going to pay back its debts. At the time, Chinese economy was on the edge of collapse, its currency had no value in the market and it had insufficient gold to support its currency. The obvious solution was: paying with a foreign currency. So, Chinese choose US dollars since this is a currency protected by world no.1 military force.

But there is anther problem with US dollars: US government has been manipulating it according to US economic need. So Chinese need another financial tool to protect its huge US dollars reserve. They found the best way to do it is: US Bonds. Since US is controlling the value of US dollar by buying or selling US bonds, the US bonds always go down when US dollar goes up, or vice verse. So by converting a part of its US dollars to US bonds, Chinese is able to protect its foreign currency reserve.

Later, Chinese found another function of these bonds: protecting Chinese economy from US harassment. These US bonds became a bomb combining US and China together, any US effort to collapse Chinese economy will force Chinese to dump these bonds in the market for cash, which in return will hurt US economy badly (although may not as bad as the damage to China). Meanwhile, Chinese has used these bonds to make the purchase of raw materials from other countries, which means the major risk of these bonds was transferred to other countries who own a lot debt to US. As a result, stabilizing Chinese economy has become a job of US government while China is forced to protect US dollars.

 

[pmaitra]

Because these bonds are another form of US dollars, and US dollar deposit has been playing as the backbone of RMB from 1980s.

When Chinese came back into the world trading system, there was one problem for every of its trading partners: how is Chinese going to pay back its debts. At the time, Chinese economy was on the edge of collapse, its currency had no value in the market and it had insufficient gold to support its currency. The obvious solution was: paying with a foreign currency. So, Chinese choose US dollars since this is a currency protected by world no.1 military force.

But there is anther problem with US dollars: US government has been manipulating it according to US economic need. So Chinese need another financial tool to protect its huge US dollars reserve. They found the best way to do it is: US Bonds. Since US is controlling the value of US dollar by buying or selling US bonds, the US bonds always go down when US dollar goes up, or vice verse. So by converting a part of its US dollars to US bonds, Chinese is able to protect its foreign currency reserve.

Later, Chinese found another function of these bonds: protecting Chinese economy from US harassment. These US bonds became a bomb combining US and China together, any US effort to collapse Chinese economy will force Chinese to dump these bonds in the market for cash, which in return will hurt US economy badly (although may not as bad as the damage to China). Meanwhile, Chinese has used these bonds to make the purchase of raw materials from other countries, which means the major risk of these bonds was transferred to other countries who own a lot debt to US. As a result, stabilizing Chinese economy has become a job of US government while China is forced to protect US dollars.

I have to say, you are indeed very knowledgeable in economics. Thank you for this valuable comment from you.

 

[sgarg]

@no smoking, your views have been known to me as strategy of China for more than a decade. In fact Russia tried to imitate China but failed.

China's size is the biggest protection China has. Ultimately it is the people of a country that make or break that country.

But China has given immense economic benefit to the West. This is what has kept the West going in the face of declining and ageing population.

The bonds and fx reserves provide buying power to China today, but will be useless in a serious crisis, specially if the crisis is between China and the West. The situation will be similar to Russia today as West will move to block and/or seize the money.

 

[CCP]

@no smoking, your views have been known to me as strategy of China for more than a decade. In fact Russia tried to imitate China but failed.

China's size is the biggest protection China has. Ultimately it is the people of a country that make or break that country.

But China has given immense economic benefit to the West. This is what has kept the West going in the face of declining and ageing population.

The bonds and fx reserves provide buying power to China today, but will be useless in a serious crisis, specially if the crisis is between China and the West. The situation will be similar to Russia today as West will move to block and/or seize the money.

1. China and Russia are different :

-We have balanced industrial bases ( we used flashlights,hot water containers and leather coats to trade for Su-27s in 1990's )
-We can produce everything we need (from screw to satellites)
-We produce enough food for ourselves (20% cut of meat production and switch the fodder production to rice production )
-We have enough natural resources (eg.China is 5th oil producer)
-We have big enough market to maintain our country running ( Enough population to produce goods in efficient economic scale, and consume those goods. )

All in limited economy mode (no more exportation, limit private consumptions)


2.If West move to block and/or seize the money

- All western firms in China will be take over. ( a good amount ,right)
- China will block Asian ( especially East and South East asia )from rest of the world. ( now, do you think anyone will sell anything to West? If they know the western cash can not change to any consumer goods now.)
- Middle-east will be war zone again.( This one need China and Russia work together, but not as important as the previous one. )

I don't think West can run their economy even in limited mode or maintain stability in that situation



So, you worry too much. West understand it very well.

 

[pmaitra]

@no smoking, your views have been known to me as strategy of China for more than a decade. In fact Russia tried to imitate China but failed.

China's size is the biggest protection China has. Ultimately it is the people of a country that make or break that country.

But China has given immense economic benefit to the West. This is what has kept the West going in the face of declining and ageing population.

The bonds and fx reserves provide buying power to China today, but will be useless in a serious crisis, specially if the crisis is between China and the West. The situation will be similar to Russia today as West will move to block and/or seize the money.

How will the West move to block and/or seize the money?

Good point @CCP:

1. China and Russia is different :

-We have balance industrial bases
-We can produce everything we need
-We produce enough food for ourselves
-We have enough natural resources
-We have big enough market to maintain our country running

All in limited economy mode (not more exportation, limit private consumptions)

 

[sgarg]

How will the West move to block and/or seize the money?

Good point @CCP:

I had a lot of private discussion in New York in 1998-99 in which this thought process came out. Believe me, it is NOT my fabrication.

The American view was that USA will block and confiscate overseas lenders money by starting a worldwide war. So US will never have to pay its bonds.

The problem with fx reserves is that this money is held in Western banking system. It is same with India. India's fx reserves are also held in the Western banking system. West has the power to block this money.

 

[sgarg]

1. China and Russia are different :

2.If West move to block and/or seize the money

- All western firms in China will be take over. ( a good amount ,right)
- China will block Asian ( especially East and South East asia )from rest of the world. ( now, do you think anyone will sell anything to West? If they know the western cash can not change to any consumer goods now.)
- Middle-east will be war zone again.( This one need China and Russia work together, but not as important as the previous one. )

I don't think West can run their economy even in limited mode or maintain stability in that situation

So, you worry too much. West understand it very well.

Well the discussion I have had in the late nineties included the points you mentioned.

Of course China has become far stronger since then as Chinese leaders have been pragmatic and smart.

This is is the reason why the West is so jittery now. However the chances of the West sticking to its earlier plan is very high if none of the "modifications" work.

The white man always takes recourse to violence.

 

[CCP]

Well the discussion I have had in the late nineties included the points you mentioned.

Of course China has become far stronger since then as Chinese leaders have been pragmatic and smart.

This is is the reason why the West is so jittery now. However the chances of the West sticking to its earlier plan is very high if none of the "modifications" work.

The white man always takes recourse to violence.

Well, anyone will do if (revenue - cost) is positive .

 

[pmaitra]

I had a lot of private discussion in New York in 1998-99 in which this thought process came out. Believe me, it is NOT my fabrication.

The American view was that USA will block and confiscate overseas lenders money by starting a worldwide war. So US will never have to pay its bonds.

The problem with fx reserves is that this money is held in Western banking system. It is same with India. India's fx reserves are also held in the Western banking system. West has the power to block this money.

Ok, so you are saying, and correct me if I am interpreting it wrong, that the west can block the money by not paying its bonds. So far, so good. Now, assuming the west actually decides to pay its bonds, how will it pay?

 

[sgarg]

Ok, so you are saying, and correct me if I am interpreting it wrong, that the west can block the money by not paying its bonds. So far, so good. Now, assuming the west actually decides to pay its bonds, how will it pay?

The dollar is tied to Western technological advancements. It is no longer tied to gold. The two pillars of US dollar today are technology and US military.

If West starts to slide technologically vs China or China/Russia combine, then USA cannot prop the dollar by manipulation.

Have you ever wondered USA has printed dollars like mad since 2008, still there is no inflation is USA. Where did the dollars go?

The dollars are earned by somebody and then locked in the bank accounts, in the banking system run by the West. This is why the manipulation succeeds.

However this printing of US dollars is a "modification" to the original scheme. The scheme fabricated in the reagan era was based on wars.