Chandrayaan - 1 News and Discussions

roma

NRI in Europe
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
3,582
Likes
2,538
Country flag
Researches are only authentic when they are published in research journals. ISRO needs to pick that habit quickly.
yes indeed ! they needed to have had more confidence in themselves, ( i beleive that's on the way though, as they continue to do well ) and be willing to put in indelible print their findings even if the prior thinking of the scientific community had been different to the findings.
 

roma

NRI in Europe
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
3,582
Likes
2,538
Country flag
Isro's We were First was an "in-house" affair.

Water on moon is India's discovery, says ISRO chief - Yahoo! India News

New Delhi, Sept. 26 -- The much-heralded discovery of water molecules on the moon - a scientific finding that completely upends the previous scientific consensus that the moon is entirely dry - may have been an in-house affair, according to top scientists at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO). The Moon Impact Probe, an Indian lunar rover aboard Chandrayaan-1, detected the presence of water on its way down to land on the moon's surface, ISRO Chairman G Madhavan Nair announced on Friday on national television.

"We truly believe it is a path-breaking discovery," Nair said. "The quantity of water was more than we expected."

Nair said the Moon Impact Probe took close-up photos that indicated the presence of water. The probe's mission was to land on the moon and make close-range observations of the lunar surface, according to ISRO's Web site. The instrument, which was designed by ISRO, is 375 by 470 millimetres, a little larger than a standard shoe box. The lunar water discovery was confirmed by the Moon Mineralogy Mapper, an instrument created by the US-based National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and carried aboard Chandrayaan-1.

When Chandrayaan-1 was launched on October 22, 2008, it carried a record 11 projects by scientists from seven nations.


my comments ; well whether techinically first or not, no one can deny they are on the up these days.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,885
Likes
48,598
Country flag
Deep Impact And Other Spacecraft Find Clear Evidence Of Water On Moon

Deep Impact And Other Spacecraft Find Clear Evidence Of Water On Moon


by Staff Writers
College Park MD (SPX) Sep 25, 2009
New data from the Deep Impact spacecraft and the Moon Mineralogy Mapper (M3), an instrument aboard India's recently ended Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft, provide, for the first time, clear evidence that water exists on the surface of the Moon.

"The Deep Impact observations of the Moon not only unequivocally confirm the presence of OH/H2O on the lunar surface, but also reveal that the entire lunar surface is hydrated during at least some portions of the lunar day," write University of Maryland astronomer Jessica Sunshine and co-authors in a paper on the Deep Impact data published online in the September 24 issue of the journal Science.

Small Amount of Water Yields Big Excitement
"Finding water on the Moon in daylight is a huge surprise, even if it is only a small amount of water and only in the form of molecules stuck to soil," said Sunshine, lead author of the Deep Impact paper and a co-author of a companion Science paper based on data from the M3 instrument that first detected the presence of lunar water.

Prevailing scientific opinion long has been that there probably is no water on the Moon and that, even if it does exist, it would be only in permanently cold, shadowed craters at the lunar poles.

"In the Deep Impact data we're essentially watching water molecules form and then dissipate right in front of our eyes," said Sunshine, who said her first reaction to the M3 data was skepticism.

"We aren't certain yet how this happens," she said, "but our findings suggest a solar driven cycle in which layers of water only a few molecules thick form, dissipate and reform on the surface each lunar day. We postulate that hydrogen ions from the sun are carried by the solar wind to the Moon and there interact with oxygen rich minerals in lunar soil to produce the water [H20] and hydroxyl [OH] molecules that spectral analysis unequivocally show us are there.

In a cycle that occurs entirely in daylight, this water is formed in the morning, substantially lost by lunar mid-day, and re-formed as the lunar surface cools towards evening.

"If this is correct, then such hydration via solar wind would be expected to occur throughout the inner Solar System on all airless bodies with oxygen-bearing minerals on their surfaces," Sunshine said.

"Within the context of lunar science, this is a major discovery," Paul G. Lucey, a planetary scientist with the University of Hawaii, said in a Los Angeles Times article. "There was zero accepted evidence that there was any water at the lunar surface, [but] now it is shown to be easily detectable, though by extremely sensitive methods. As a lunar scientist, when I read about this I was completely blown away," said Lucey, who was not involved in the current research.

Another reflection of the scientific significance of finding water on the moon was simply that it generated three papers in the current issue of Science and a NASA press conference. In addition to the M3 and Deep Impact articles, a third Science paper presented evidence collected by NASA's Cassini spacecraft.

Lunar H20 Latest in UM-Led Deep Impact Science
Although the M3 instrument and its science team made the initial discovery of water in certain areas of the lunar surface, Sunshine and co-authors on the Deep Impact paper said the conclusiveness of the finding of water, the realization it was a surface-wide phenomenon, and the insight into the temperature dependent nature of the process were only possible because of data collected by the Deep Impact spacecraft during it's current extended mission (EPOXI).

Deep Impact was not designed to study the Moon, but for a famous 2005 mission in which it successfully knocked a hole in comet Tempel 1 to find out what was inside. Its data on lunar water were obtained as part of calibration opportunities that occurred during June 2009 and December 2007 flybys of the Earth and Moon needed to get adequate gravity boosts to travel on its EPOXI mission to a second comet, Hartley 2, which the spacecraft will encounter in November 2010.

"Without the spectral range of Deep Impact's instruments the M3 discovery of surface water would not have been nearly so definitive, and because the Deep Impact spacecraft took observations at different times of the lunar day, the effect of temperature became very apparent," Sunshine explained.

University of Maryland Astronomer Michael A'Hearn, Deep Impact and EPOXI science team leader and one of Sunshine's four Maryland co-authors on the Deep Impact paper in Science, said "I think it is tremendous that the Deep Impact spacecraft, which was the first to detect ice on a cometary nucleus, has now demonstrated the existence of adsorbed water on the Moon. "This great spacecraft and its instruments continue to make important, unexpected discoveries long after the prime mission has ended," he said.

related report
NASA Instruments Reveal Water Molecules On Lunar Surface
NASA scientists have discovered water molecules in the polar regions of the Moon. Instruments aboard three separate spacecraft revealed water molecules in amounts that are greater than predicted, but still relatively small.

Hydroxyl, a molecule consisting of one oxygen atom and one hydrogen atom, also was found in the lunar soil. The findings were published in Thursday's edition of the journal Science.

NASA's Moon Mineralogy Mapper, or M3, instrument reported the observations. M3 was carried into space on Oct. 22, 2008, aboard the Indian Space Research Organization's Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft.

Data from the Visual and Infrared Mapping Spectrometer, or VIMS, on NASA's Cassini spacecraft, and the High-Resolution Infrared Imaging Spectrometer on NASA's Epoxi spacecraft contributed to confirmation of the finding. The spacecraft imaging spectrometers made it possible to map lunar water more effectively than ever before.

The confirmation of elevated water molecules and hydroxyl at these concentrations in the Moon's polar regions raises new questions about its origin and effect on the mineralogy of the Moon. Answers to these questions will be studied and debated for years to come.

"Water ice on the Moon has been something of a holy grail for lunar scientists for a very long time," said Jim Green, director of the Planetary Science Division at NASA Headquarters in Washington. "This surprising finding has come about through the ingenuity, perseverance and international cooperation between NASA and the India Space Research Organization."

From its perch in lunar orbit, M3's state-of-the-art spectrometer measured light reflecting off the Moon's surface at infrared wavelengths, splitting the spectral colors of the lunar surface into small enough bits to reveal a new level of detail in surface composition. When the M3 science team analyzed data from the instrument, they found the wavelengths of light being absorbed were consistent with the absorption patterns for water molecules and hydroxyl.

"For silicate bodies, such features are typically attributed to water and hydroxyl-bearing materials," said Carle Pieters, M3's principal investigator from Brown University, Providence, R.I.

"When we say 'water on the Moon,' we are not talking about lakes, oceans or even puddles. Water on the Moon means molecules of water and hydroxyl that interact with molecules of rock and dust specifically in the top millimeters of the Moon's surface."

The M3 team found water molecules and hydroxyl at diverse areas of the sunlit region of the Moon's surface, but the water signature appeared stronger at the Moon's higher latitudes. Water molecules and hydroxyl previously were suspected in data from a Cassini flyby of the Moon in 1999, but the findings were not published until now.

"The data from Cassini's VIMS instrument and M3 closely agree," said Roger Clark, a U.S. Geological Survey scientist in Denver and member of both the VIMS and M3 teams.

"We see both water and hydroxyl. While the abundances are not precisely known, as much as 1,000 water molecule parts-per-million could be in the lunar soil. To put that into perspective, if you harvested one ton of the top layer of the Moon's surface, you could get as much as 32 ounces of water."

For additional confirmation, scientists turned to the Epoxi mission while it was flying past the Moon in June 2009 on its way to a November 2010 encounter with comet Hartley 2. The spacecraft not only confirmed the VIMS and M3 findings, but also expanded on them.

"With our extended spectral range and views over the north pole, we were able to explore the distribution of both water and hydroxyl as a function of temperature, latitude, composition, and time of day," said Jessica Sunshine of the University of Maryland. Sunshine is Epoxi's deputy principal investigator and a scientist on the M3 team.

"Our analysis unequivocally confirms the presence of these molecules on the Moon's surface and reveals that the entire surface appears to be hydrated during at least some portion of the lunar day."

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the M3 instrument, Cassini mission and Epoxi spacecraft for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington. The Indian Space Research Organization built, launched and operated the Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft.
 

Vladimir79

Professional
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
1,404
Likes
82
When Chandrayaan-1 was launched on October 22, 2008, it carried a record 11 projects by scientists from seven nations.

my comments ; well whether techinically first or not, no one can deny they are on the up these days.
My view, it was a mutli-national mission and credit goes to all partners involved. The exploration of space is not a national issue, it is one for all mankind to revel.
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
Vlad,
There is still pride involved in being the first to do or find something. That's what keeps humans going isn't it.
 

Vladimir79

Professional
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
1,404
Likes
82
Vlad,
There is still pride involved in being the first to do or find something. That's what keeps humans going isn't it.
Why can't it be pride for mankind? When Russia sends up modules and crews to the ISS we don't say look at us, we have a space station. It is a multinational effort and we are playing our part in something great that will benefit mankind. The only real nationalist pleasure we get from it is laughing at Amerikans who can't even get up to ISS and have to pay us for it.
 

roma

NRI in Europe
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
3,582
Likes
2,538
Country flag
Why cant it be a pride for mankind ?

Why can't it be pride for mankind? When Russia sends up modules and crews to the ISS we don't say look at us, we have a space station. It is a multinational effort and we are playing our part in something great that will benefit mankind.
before replying i'd say i wish it could be that way.

One reason why many of the newly rising nations tend to try to take some of the credit for themselves is because when they do contribute to multinational efforts they are very often sidelined and their often moderately substantial contribution is not even mentioned

Cases in point ? A. This very same chandrayaan mission. Here in Iberia, in spain , portugal , the indian component was not even mentioned . The news clip reporting the discovery of water featured the first landing of neil armstrong on the moon - flashback to those days. The name of chandrayaan was not even mentioned.

B. India contributed very substantially to the allied WW II effort but in the memorial day celebratons in the western world , that very substantial contribution is not even mentioned.

Fortunately india has had a much better experience withthe east europeans and russians
 

RPK

Indyakudimahan
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,970
Likes
229
Country flag
fullstory

India's moon mission quite economical

Mumbai, Sep 27 ( PTI) India's moon mission has proved to be quite economical and cost much less compared to what other countries have spent on their projects, mission director M Annadurai said here.

Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) would continue to check costs in the Chandrayan-II mission as well, he said.

India's moon mission cost only about one sixth to one tenth of the cost of similar missions undertaken by European Space Agency (SMART) or NASA's LRO or SELENE of Japan or ChangE of China.

Chandrayaan-I was also unique in carrying 11 scientific instruments and 60 detectors, Annadurai said at a seminar organised by National Council of Science Museums yesterday.
 

Vladimir79

Professional
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
1,404
Likes
82
before replying i'd say i wish it could be that way.

One reason why many of the newly rising nations tend to try to take some of the credit for themselves is because when they do contribute to multinational efforts they are very often sidelined and their often moderately substantial contribution is not even mentioned

Cases in point ? A. This very same chandrayaan mission. Here in Iberia, in spain , portugal , the indian component was not even mentioned . The news clip reporting the discovery of water featured the first landing of neil armstrong on the moon - flashback to those days. The name of chandrayaan was not even mentioned.
Does this make you feel better?

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com - Water on the moon

B. India contributed very substantially to the allied WW II effort but in the memorial day celebratons in the western world , that very substantial contribution is not even mentioned.
Russia defeated the largest numbers of Nazis and Japs yet Amerikans think they did it... you learn to live with their arrogance.
 

S.A.T.A

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
2,569
Likes
1,560
Where there is water,there is life............wonder what are the chances of finding if life existed on the moon in the distant past.
 

Vladimir79

Professional
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
1,404
Likes
82
Where there is water,there is life............wonder what are the chances of finding if life existed on the moon in the distant past.
Considering the Moon never had an atmosphere, it is not likely.
 

S.A.T.A

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
2,569
Likes
1,560
Perhaps it may have retained an atmosphere too in the distant past.
 

Arjak

Respected Member
Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
398
Likes
5
Country flag
Correct me if i'm wrong,but judging by mass of the moon it is a fact that the moon never had an atmosphere.....it cant hold one
 

tarunraju

Sanathan Pepe
Mod
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
9,080
Likes
40,077
Country flag
For the Moon to ever have retained any sort of atmosphere, either it should have been much bigger (stronger gravity), or it should have been much further away from the Earth. Both seem unlikely.
 

ahmedsid

Top Gun
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
2,960
Likes
252
I have read that the moon was once a piece of earth or something and got blasted off or something. If thats true, then once, it did have life! But no chance of it now, unless its a huge Subterranean Complex built by the Aliens!!!
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,885
Likes
48,598
Country flag
The one moon scientist are targetting for possible life in the solar system is Europa Jupiter's moon, they theorize that under a mile thick layer of ice could be an ocean with the possibility of life.
 

tarunraju

Sanathan Pepe
Mod
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
9,080
Likes
40,077
Country flag
I have read that the moon was once a piece of earth or something and got blasted off or something. If thats true, then once, it did have life!
That is hypothesized to have happened some 4.5 billion years ago, when there was not even the most primitive form of life on Earth.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,885
Likes
48,598
Country flag
I have read that the moon was once a piece of earth or something and got blasted off or something. If thats true, then once, it did have life! But no chance of it now, unless its a huge Subterranean Complex built by the Aliens!!!
they think two earth size planets collided and out of it came the moon from the debris from the collision.
 

ajay_ijn

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
422
Likes
28
Country flag
Did India beat NASA to find water on moon?

thats the source document but i wonder why the administration of the claim wasnt properly done ? again its a matter of management . So nasa made the first announcement , but isro might be pursing the claim more in an "academic " manner for the books , but those who watch the tv worldwide would more likely remember nasa ?
I think one would remember Chandrayaan/India than NASA. The Spacecraft will be always given credit. most of news articles worldwide gave credit to India & Chandryaan. Scientific Journals would also remember it as Chandrayaans discovery.
 

Arjak

Respected Member
Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
398
Likes
5
Country flag
Life finds a way to survive in hardest of living conditions.....that is a fact.....one can see numerous such examples on earth......so,judging by the theory that moon was a part of earth once,and maybe it got seperated with some earliest life forms thriving on it....and also evidence of water on moon,we can possibly expect(distant chance) one such life forms being able to survive and finding a way to thrive and reproduce in harsh conditions with the ultra-light and transparent atmosphere of moon and WATER on it.......surely sounds awkward,but not absolutely impossible
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top