Ceasefire Violation by Pakistan

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by ahmedsid, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. dave lukins

    dave lukins Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Are they worried about your innocent people who may be killed? Are the innocent people on the other side, so worried that they have asked the terrorist to move away from their towns and villages? No return of fire to the enemy is 'undue aggression' Give the Pakistani authorities something to complain about for a change..show some teeth.

    From Karmani Dhanuhu: "The bow is stretched for its task":wink:
     
  2. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

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    America and Western countries have invested so much money in this war on terror and would never want this war go off track .

    India can throw truck load of counter fire but this would change the course of war of terror .
     
  3. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    I support Dave on this... guys, we need to show some balls here...

    For every single rocket fired on us, fire ten back at them... just in their general direction

    When rockets fly around at random, it will cause quite a bit of chaos on the other side and fear... both of which we have to generate....

    Give them so much fear that they will think twice before firing a rocket at us again... Think like Israel...
     
  4. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Let me tell you IG... war on terror is against the Taliban which are enemies of the West... After the Taliban are gone, the West will look the other way when somebody attacks India...

    There is a clear distinction between the Taliban and the groups targetting India... maybe they share some amount of logistics, but their targets are different...

    Also, the Pakistanis are (or atleast are pretending to) target only the Taliban and are letting the anti-India groups away... case in point - the release of Hafiz Saeed and the yet to be filed appeal against the release in the Pakistani Supreme Court

    When this great War on Terror will be over, the net losers will be us and not the Westerners... because the Westerners will walk out of Afghanistan again and Pakistan will be free to bleed us by a thousand cuts...
     
  5. ZOOM

    ZOOM Founding Member

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    You need to know the difference between the encounters taking place regularly on LoC. In this case, which is contrary to gunfire exchange happens between BSF and Pak's Rangers, this time round unarmed villagers situated on border required to face the burnt of terror. Because, in any case if those Rockets were fired towards Indian BSF post then certainly you may get to see your desire materializing. But in this case, some coward targeted border villeges with fully aware about they won't face any retaliation until BSF arrive. And by the time BSF arrived, they already retreted back to their hinterland, and hence as I said, BSF wont find any target upon which they can open their volly as they used to do during gunfights.

    Under such circumstances, it is quite silly to just waste ammunition aimlessly on the kind of a enemy which has assumed gunfire, explosion, sucide bombing as part of their daily life, it simply won't send a kind of messege which can deter them on next time round before thinking about any of such misadventure.
     
  6. dave lukins

    dave lukins Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Well, with a tad more professionalism rather than 'random' or 'general direction' EM:wink:
     
  7. ZOOM

    ZOOM Founding Member

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    That is why I suggest deployment artillery tracking radar. You first need to know about its features then certainly it will help you to know about its prospect on border.

    This is exactly what they want us to do. Since they themselves aware about the fact that firing of couple of rocket won't do any damage to India, rather it will atleast provoke India to take some drastic steps which will further detriorate the situation in subcontinent. I am not saying that, don't fire but atleast know the location and fire accordingly which can give us a concrete reason to forward our case if Pakistan point finger at us for unprovocative fire. That is why I said install some radars and take the help of satellites to trace the installations which are being used to open fire towards Indian border.
     
  8. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

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    The current fighting is against Taliban only and thats why America and Nato would ask India to not retaliate .

    Yes and i do even doubt that there would be more attacks against in the name of taliban

    Pakistan is indeed pretending and letting anti india groups to work and pushing the blame on Taliban .

    First of all this war in terror is the real terror and its radicalising the whole region . So how u suggest to deal with this Pakistani menace of proxy .
     
  9. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    NATO would ask India not to retaliate and so you'd not retaliate ??? Very good !!!

    Tomorrow NATO will tell you to go jump in a bore-well, would you do that too ??? Just to please them considering the fact that atleast a dozen people are killed, injured or maimed on average everyday due to these terrorist acts ???

    As far as your other points raised are concerned, I agree with you almost in totality...
     
  10. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

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    My friend dont take me wrong . Because of America and Nato only we didnt take any action against Pakistan on Mumbai terrorists attacks . We should have teached a big lesson to Pakistan for the deaths of so many innocent civilians .

    I m just talking about facts and the interfering of America after the Mumbai attacks .
     
  11. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    My view exactly... we had a golden opportunity to bomb the hell out of them since this was big and the whole world was sympathising with us at that point...

    But, our laggard, chalta-hai attitude really screwed us, we missed the bus and by that time America had become aware of the fact that we were planning to possibly take action against Pakistan and pulled out all stops to thwart our plans...

    If we'd bombed Pakistan within the first 3 days, the whole world would not even have raised an eyebrow and even their dear friends the Chinese couldn't have said or interfered because it would have projected them in bad light...

    And, what do we end up doing??? We end up playing right into the hands of NATO and forgive the deaths of our civilians so that their civilians can live... Maybe we're taking the concept of tolerance a little too far !!!
     
  12. ZOOM

    ZOOM Founding Member

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    @ EM and I-G

    There is no need to blaim NATO or US for the inactions of India against Pakistan to teach them a lesson. To take Military action against any nation, there is need to have a military thinking which was highly lacking in us and hence we couldn't figure out what are the ways upon which can rely on to teach them a hard lesson. This is the reason why our politicians and some stretegic expert running helter skelter to draw the plan for surgical attack. But most importantly, we were highly lacking in a kind of a weapons which are highly useful for such precision target. Reason for it, is years of lathergy in procuring such necessary weapons because of kickbacks and traditional carefree attitude when it comes to giving a serious think for Defence preparations of this nation.
     
  13. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    What you are suggesting is not feasible in any sense. To install radars all across the LOC just to track a small rocket is completely a waste of resources given the length of LOC that BSF patrols.

    Anything fired from the direction of Pakistan is an act of war and should be dealt in that manner. The onus is on Pakistani Army to prevent such things from happening. If they cannot do so, we have to take the matters into our hands and take appropriate measures to address the situation, which is to fire rockets to destroy the property of Pakistani army in retaliation.:2guns:
     
  14. ZOOM

    ZOOM Founding Member

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    Yes Small rockets can be track, that is I am repeatedly suggesting you to refer various links on google about tracking of artillery shells by radars. In the meanwhile, this is the best precautionery measure we can undertake at this point of time.

    You are absolutely in your right to retaliate, but you need to assume contrary to your belief. Since if we were to take actions then we had to done so many years back and not require to await this rocket firing misadventure. Our enemy or we themselves to some extent are highly aware that we will not going to retaliate because explosions of this gunfights and rocket firing is too low in sound to awake our babus from their slumber, and hence you should not expect any war like action despite having everything but will to do so. Hence as I said, atleast deploy those things which are in our capability and that is I suggest to deploy some radars which won't bother our BSF of any interference from our babus in case somebody label it a too drastic step.
     
  15. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

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    We should not forget even this that Pakistan Foreign minister was in India and was about to give a joint statement on the relations with India . may be this would have been the turning point in the relations between India and Pakistan .

    Indeed we would have bombed all the camps in Pakistan and have even played diplomacy ,all this would have work out good .
     
  16. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    You are simply saying install some radars without giving a thought as to how many such radars are required to put across the LOC, what is the cost of each radar, what are the maintenance costs and after all we are doing this for what - to stop a small rocket??. I don't think we have such resources, even if we have, they are better spent on some where else for defense forces, otherwise IMO it is a gross waste of our precious resources.
     
  17. ZOOM

    ZOOM Founding Member

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    Oh man, you simply drifting away from the topic and going into much more lenght which has nothing to do with topic at hand. It is not an herculan task to install such radars, just we need the same in number which I guess not a big task to do so. We can simply put them in those region which are highly vulnerable because of its terrain and being stationed only less number of soldiers to guard it.

    Even this cannot be followed, then please come out with someother measure which I am ready to appreciate. But please don't come out with something like firing barrage of rocket to retalite against such sporadic attacks or to go all out war against Pakistan. You need to know present circumstances then only propose your case, since if it was so easy to deter enemy with extraordinary fire power then NATO forces may not require to toil day and night on rocky terrains of Afganistan to flush insurgent from its hinterland.
     
  18. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    ^^^
    Without any further details, I give up arguing.
     
  19. dave lukins

    dave lukins Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    My dear Daredevil, don't argue ..debate. We all have different views on security and retaliation. There are times when we have to sit and take stock of the situation and the consequences of actions we might take, especially using Fire-Power. Zoom is merely saying you cannot 'use a sledgehammer to crack a nut'. Other avenues have to be gone down first. However,in the case of India, your avenues seem rather long:wink:
     
  20. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    DD. The Israelis have built a new radar called the EL/M 2084. India has already ordered this radar. It's an AESA and is meant to track the launch point of an artillery shell or rocket and also the impact point.
     

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