Can US stop Chinese DF-21D ASBM or YJ-18 ASCM? No.

AnantS

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There is no way an Indian missile has CEP close to China's.

China has its own Beidou GPS navigational guidance. The military has access to military-grade Beidou accuracy.

Since India doesn't have its own GPS satellite system, it can only use severely-downgraded civilian GPS signals.
ching chang whu shu ting ping ding mu moo moo pee pee... blah blah
LOL at another brain dead logic from Chinese Bot. I sincerely wish Chinese Military Planners also live in the same delusional state of mind. Would enable India to give nice surprise when situation arises
 

Martian

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LOL at another brain dead logic from Chinese Bot. I sincerely wish Chinese Military Planners also live in the same delusional state of mind. Would enable India to give nice surprise when situation arises
You didn't address my point.

China launched its own Beidou GPS navigational satellite constellation with military-grade 0.1 meter (or 10 centimeter) accuracy.

Since India does not have its own military-grade GPS satellite network, how can Indian missiles possibly have CEP equal to China's missiles?
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The prestigious science journal Nature had published a technical explanation of China's Beidou 2/Compass GPS satellite accuracy of 10cm. It's an extremely long article. I'm posting only a fraction of the article length.

Click on the link to Nature to read the full technical article on Beidou 2/Compass GPS.

Precise orbit determination of BeiDou constellation based on BETS and MGEX network | Nature

 

Yumdoot

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@Martian,

Some quick points:
1) I agree BeiDou has much better accuracy, but what would you rather have crazy levels of accuracy or redundancy?
2) The Navic (IRNSS) signals have been received and verified in Germany and Finland (5000 km from the Extended Areas Network of Navic).
3) If BeiDou is so accurate and if for your military only accuracy matters, then why are you guys going after Glonass? Your people have already stated that eventually even GPS signal would be integrated for the civilian users.
4) India already has devised the GPS+GLONASS+Navic receivers - G3OM. Thats triple redundancy in a small 17 gram package. Now do you expect the Russians and Americans to ever be on the same side of a war? :p
5) The Navic signal which already covers in its Extended Area Coverage (20 mtr accuracy) almost the whole of China and the South China Sea overlaps with the Japanese differential GPS network (MSAS). How does that sound to you?
6) Have you heard of the ionospheric scintillation effect on L1 and L2 carrier frequencies? And if you have what do you know of the ionospheric scintillation effect on L5 and/or S carrier frequencies that Navic provides? :p
7) Have you ever heard of a continuous GPS input which when mated to a imaging seeker does some really cool things? Unless you envisage a signal jamming all through a trajectory.....which is kind of possible for you western trained Chinese.
8) Much of the coverage is for IOR and barely enough for the land mass and beyond land borders. Now why must that be? :)
9) Please feel free to keep that accuracy level. We don't need it. We are happy with our regional network that can basically fry anything within 1500 km of our borders. Our air force used civilian grade GPS during Kargil (even when it was selectively denied several times) to manage bombing of Paki held heights. How much confidence does that leave you with?
10) Europeans have the same level of accuracy as BeiDou but don't they still live in mortal fear of Glonass equipped forces?
11) And how do you know your own BeiDou civilian accuracy of 10 meters is not available for us too in the Extended Area coverage where our satellites provide 20 meter accuracy? :pound:
 

Martian

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@Martian,

Some quick points:
1) I agree BeiDou has much better accuracy, but what would you rather have crazy levels of accuracy or redundancy?
2) The Navic (IRNSS) signals have been received and verified in Germany and Finland (5000 km from the Extended Areas Network of Navic).
3) If BeiDou is so accurate and if for your military only accuracy matters, then why are you guys going after Glonass? Your people have already stated that eventually even GPS signal would be integrated for the civilian users.
4) India already has devised the GPS+GLONASS+Navic receivers - G3OM. Thats triple redundancy in a small 17 gram package. Now do you expect the Russians and Americans to ever be on the same side of a war? :p
5) The Navic signal which already covers in its Extended Area Coverage (20 mtr accuracy) almost the whole of China and the South China Sea overlaps with the Japanese differential GPS network (MSAS). How does that sound to you?
6) Have you heard of the ionospheric scintillation effect on L1 and L2 carrier frequencies? And if you have what do you know of the ionospheric scintillation effect on L5 and/or S carrier frequencies that Navic provides? :p
7) Have you ever heard of a continuous GPS input which when mated to a imaging seeker does some really cool things? Unless you envisage a signal jamming all through a trajectory.....which is kind of possible for you western trained Chinese.
8) Much of the coverage is for IOR and barely enough for the land mass and beyond land borders. Now why must that be? :)
9) Please feel free to keep that accuracy level. We don't need it. We are happy with our regional network that can basically fry anything within 1500 km of our borders. Our air force used civilian grade GPS during Kargil (even when it was selectively denied several times) to manage bombing of Paki held heights. How much confidence does that leave you with?
10) Europeans have the same level of accuracy as BeiDou but don't they still live in mortal fear of Glonass equipped forces?
11) And how do you know your own BeiDou civilian accuracy of 10 meters is not available for us too in the Extended Area coverage where our satellites provide 20 meter accuracy? :pound:
I have no idea what you are talking about.

India neither has its own GPS satellites nor military-grade GPS accuracy.

Some of you Indians are making the absurd claim that Indian missiles have CEP equal to China's. That's not possible without a satellite constellation like China's Beidou 2 and you also need a reputable science journal like Nature to prove that it has at least 10cm (or 0.1 meter) accuracy.

You have not met these two burdens of proof.

If you can't prove these two requirements, I suggest you retract your ridiculous claim that Indian missiles have CEP equal to Chinese missiles.
 

AnantS

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@Yumdoot Indian Military has signal access from both Glonass and Galileo which is used in conjunction with RLG INS. Throw IRNSS and civilian GPS into mix. I do not know if GAGAN would be applicable here along with GPS. Dr Tessy Thomas on record has stated the accuracy of Agni 5 missile being in single digits. The CEP of our missiles starting from Prithivi(~ 100 m) to < 40 m of Agni 1 and 2 to latest Agni 5 with <10m CEP.

Tidbit: We are in talks with South Korea for another IRNSS launch for covering their area ;)
 

HariPrasad-1

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China's earlier-model DF-15C SRBM (short-range ballistic missile) has a CEP of 30-50 meters.

China's DF-15C SRBM was unveiled in 2007. It has a CEP (circular error probable) of 30-50 meters.

Ten years have passed. We expect the Chinese DF-21D ASBM to have improved technology and a CEP of 30 meters or less.
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China releases first photos of DF-15C ‘bunker buster’, short-range ballistic missile with deep-penetration warhead | News.com.au
"The report notes that the [DF-15C], unveiled in 2007, was designed in response to Taiwan’s asymmetric warfare tactics."
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PLA Second Artillery Corps | Air Power Australia

"The DF-15C is reported to have a 600 kilometer range and terminal homing. The inclusion of a dual GPS and active radar terminal homing system on the DF-15C allows for an accuracy reportedly between 30 and 50 meters CEP, matching what is visible at the impact site."

BS. Is it a bullet that we see thousands of hits? Does china fired hundreds of missile on this location for test? When chinese bluff, they can not hide. That is the problem with them.
 

AnantS

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YuInLoo says China missile poo poo ...blah blah
Hey CheeCheeBot: As Yumdoot stated Indian military consumes Glonass, Galileo(civi), IRNSS(military), GPS(civi). The G3OM receiver that DRDO developed provides less than 5 m(search links for it) accuracy.

This much knowledge is enough for you bot who will not do any research itself(not sure if we are debating with a human or just a cheeni chat bot). Now you can continue with Cheena gleat theatrics.
 

Martian

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Hey CheeCheeBot: As Yumdoot stated Indian military consumes Glonass, Galileo(civi), IRNSS(military), GPS(civi). The G3OM receiver that DRDO developed provides less than 5 m(search links for it) accuracy.

This much knowledge is enough for you bot who will not do any research itself(not sure if we are debating with a human or just a cheeni chat bot). Now you can continue with Cheena gleat theatrics.
You claim India's DRDO has a GPS receiver with an accuracy of 5 meters.

Did you read the Nature article on China's second-generation Beidou 2 GPS satellite? The Chinese Beidou 2 has an accuracy of 0.1 meter.

Which one do you think is more accurate? A Chinese Beidou 2 military-grade GPS signal of 0.1 meter accuracy or a purported Indian DRDO accuracy of 5 meters?

Assuming DRDO actually has a 5 meter GPS receiver, the Chinese Beidou 2 military-grade receiver is 50 times more accurate than the crude Indian DRDO device.
 

AnantS

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You claim India's DRDO has a GPS receiver with an accuracy of 5 meters.

Did you read the Nature article on China's second-generation Beidou 2 GPS satellite? The Chinese Beidou 2 has an accuracy of 0.1 meter.

Which one do you think is more accurate? A Chinese Beidou 2 military-grade GPS signal of 0.1 meter accuracy or a purported Indian DRDO accuracy of 5 meters?

Assuming DRDO actually has a 5 meter GPS receiver, the Chinese Beidou 2 military-grade receiver is 50 times more accurate than the crude Indian DRDO device.
Idiot GPS is an American system. I mentioned G3OM. Did you bother to read what it is? So your military has targets/equipment whose footprint is less than 5 meters? AGNI 5 and its next gen missile in development, AGNI 6 is nuke carrier. Especially Agni 6 is going to carry multiple Marv's with that kind of accuracy. Are you willing to stand outside the 5 meter radius of impact of Agni 5 and survive?
As far as we know about Chinese systems, the less said about it the better. They are piece of $hite.
 

AnantS

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You claim India's DRDO has a GPS receiver with an accuracy of 5 meters.

Did you read the Nature article on China's second-generation Beidou 2 GPS satellite? The Chinese Beidou 2 has an accuracy of 0.1 meter.

Which one do you think is more accurate? A Chinese Beidou 2 military-grade GPS signal of 0.1 meter accuracy or a purported Indian DRDO accuracy of 5 meters?

Assuming DRDO actually has a 5 meter GPS receiver, the Chinese Beidou 2 military-grade receiver is 50 times more accurate than the crude Indian DRDO device.
Idiot GPS is an American system. I mentioned G3OM. Did you bother to read what it is? So your military has targets/equipment whose footprint is less than 5 meters? AGNI 5 and its next gen missile in development, AGNI 6 is nuke carrier. Especially Agni 6 is going to carry multiple Marv's with that kind of accuracy. Are you willing to stand outside the 5 meter radius of impact of Agni 5 and survive?
As far as we know about Chinese systems, the less said about it the better. They are piece of $hite.
 

adrenalin

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LOL at another brain dead logic from Chinese Bot. I sincerely wish Chinese Military Planners also live in the same delusional state of mind. Would enable India to give nice surprise when situation arises
:pound::pound::pound::pound::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

HariPrasad-1

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Did you read the Nature article on China's second-generation Beidou 2 GPS satellite? The Chinese Beidou 2 has an accuracy of 0.1 meter.
One more Ignorant Hyper nationalist idiot chinese on loose. These copy cat people think that They can surpass the highly technologically advance nation of robust R & D within a year or 2. When they bluff, they do not know that they are exposing themselves. Even measuring 0.1 m accuracy is very difficult and almost impossible. They claim something and their own people comes out exposing it in some time like their scientist themselves have exposed J 15, J31 and J20.They exposed when they went to Russia to but S 400 after tall claims on HQ 9. They are purchasing old technology russian submarines from Russia inspite of tall claims. They bought S35. All this shows the level of chinese technology. Their scientist said that china legs behind in satellite imaginary but the will come and claim that their satellites are best. They kept on claiming that JF 17 is better than Tejas. However, when it came to face off, they withdrew the Junk fighter. Look at the Junk 10, An aerodynamic disaster and wastage of powerful Russian engine. Look at its airshow performance and their poor timing. Still chinese media claims that it is more maneuverable than F 16. However, when it comes to discussion on forum, they are lions. They can claim anything. In few days from now, chinese shall claim that Their GPS Accuracy is 0.1 millimeter.
 

sayareakd

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Can you show me a picture from a reputable western source to PROVE your claim about Indian ballistic missiles?

My source was from Australia Air Power and the picture showed numerous Chinese missile warhead strikes.

The Australia Air Power picture had coordinates of the Chinese test location.

Show me a picture of Indian warhead missile strikes from a reputable western media source and the location coordinates.
If you can hit at moon and on first attempt at Mars (that China has not done so far) hitting any spot on mother earth is like walk in the park.

Indian tests are informed in advance. So are lot of test videos. Unlike you or your poor all weather friends we dont test ballistic missiles on land. You sure can see A1 warhead going Diwali over sea captured by our ship.

Now question of how accurate your missiles are and our missile dont reach Chinese accuracy. You forget few meters here and there wont matter if delivery package is thermo nuke. Even blast wave will take out target.
 

Martian

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If you can hit at moon and on first attempt at Mars (that China has not done so far) hitting any spot on mother earth is like walk in the park.

Indian tests are informed in advance. So are lot of test videos. Unlike you or your poor all weather friends we dont test ballistic missiles on land. You sure can see A1 warhead going Diwali over sea captured by our ship.

Now question of how accurate your missiles are and our missile dont reach Chinese accuracy. You forget few meters here and there wont matter if delivery package is thermo nuke. Even blast wave will take out target.
No. Mars orbit was NASA's experience and equipment (ie. VLBI communication).

India was a mere spectator. That was not an Indian accomplishment. India lacked a VLBI network at the time. The largest Indian radio telescope communication dish was too small.
 

Indx TechStyle

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No. Mars orbit was NASA's experience and equipment (ie. VLBI communication).

India was a mere spectator. That was not an Indian accomplishment. India lacked a VLBI network at the time. The largest Indian radio telescope communication dish was too small.
Well well, :p
Dish was small but even then, could be used for the mission. It's size wasn't issue, our geographical position was the issue, otherwise I can also call China incapable for using ESTRACK (and even launch incapable for using Russian rocket).
 

adrenalin

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No. Mars orbit was NASA's experience and equipment (ie. VLBI communication).

India was a mere spectator. That was not an Indian accomplishment. India lacked a VLBI network at the time. The largest Indian radio telescope communication dish was too small.
chini missiles are copycat US millies, which will fall on your home and kill you and your family. chini missiles is built to kill chinise, not others, because the CCP know what over population can do. btw, how do you chini become so populated with small dicks.
 

HariPrasad-1

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No. Mars orbit was NASA's experience and equipment (ie. VLBI communication).

India was a mere spectator. That was not an Indian accomplishment. India lacked a VLBI network at the time. The largest Indian radio telescope communication dish was too small.
Inspite of using russian engine, your mass mission space craft fell down withing 2 days. You failed on even moon.
 

Indx TechStyle

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that martian is insulting india mars mission saying it is NASA mission and equipment, are you blind? he is coming here to troll with ccp fake news, and also insulting india. as I said go to bollywood forum and dance.
I'm not blind and already gave a sensible to reply to him.
It's you who's moron, instead of abusing you could tell him that India had the capability but had geographical issue and China also uses Russian help.
Did you watch my reply?o_O
Let me quote myself.
Well well, :p
Dish was small but even then, could be used for the mission. It's size wasn't issue, our geographical position was the issue, otherwise I can also call China incapable for using ESTRACK (and even launch incapable for using Russian rocket).
I have already told you. If you don't know, don't bother to post on the thread. You are spoiling image of Indians.
texstyle, india is only country to do mars in 1st mission. US also did not do it in first time. and china is still trying to hack US and India systems to learn how to send a mission to mars.
Source?
Here's the thread about Chinese is space program if you want to track updates.
But please don't derail that thread otherwise will be kicked out.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/cnsa-news-updates-and-discussions.76985/


Look guys, few days ago, I was nailing @Martian but this guy made me to defend him. LOL @A chauhan @Kyubi
 

adrenalin

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I'm not blind and already gave a sensible to reply to him.
It's you who's moron, instead of abusing you could tell him that India had the capability but had geographical issue and China also uses Russian help.
Did you watch my reply?o_O

I have already told you. If you don't know, don't bother to post on the thread. You are spoiling image of Indians.

Source?
Here's the thread about Chinese is space program if you want to track updates.
But please don't derail that thread otherwise will be kicked out.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/cnsa-news-updates-and-discussions.76985/


Look guys, few days ago, I was nailing @Martian but this guy made me to defend him. LOL @A chauhan @Kyubi
you are weak. india needs strong man. you go to bollywood and become a khan, leave defence to me. OKAY? No more internal fight. STOP it.
 

Indx TechStyle

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you are weak. india needs strong man. you go to bollywood and become a khan, leave defence to me. OKAY? No more internal fight. STOP it.
:facepalm:
Kis akal ke dushman se pala pada hai.
:frusty:
Strong man? You are a stupid man @adrenalin who's not insulting China but India with stupid responses.

Ever heard about that Pakistan stupid PatriotLover ? You are his Indian version.

And if we will leave defense to you, DFI will be Drama Forum India soon.
:basanti:
 

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