Can India strike Pakistan?

Yusuf

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Cold start is not castle in the air. Its not devised by the politicians but the armed forces. Its a real good doctrine. As far as arty goes, we have enough to take care of pakistan. India is more than ready to wage a war against pakistan. But a war will not be started by india. India doesn't have to do that. All it has to do is carry out severe punitive strikes which no major power will condemn and in fact they will support. If pakistan chooses to declare a war in return, they can. India will this time cut it into more pieces.
 

anoop_mig25

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There is no doubt on Indias ability to wage war against Pakistan. Nukes or no Nukes.
india doesn't need to start a war with Pakistan after a terror strike. But then it has to retaliate with precision strikes even if they are on empty tents just to make sure that Pakistan and the terrorists know that india will strike back. The onus of starting a war will not be on India.
As it is the US has said India will not show patience next time and it doesn't expect it either. Any effort by pakistan to widen the conflict will be scuttled by the US saying Pakistan had to stop the terrorists.

Good intel is a must. Get precise info about terrorist leaders like Saeed and kill them in a daring and overt manner like the Israelis. It will put fear in the heart of terror leaders who comfortably sit in their dens and send convert innocent kids by brainwashing into terrorists and send them to do the dirty job.
once us is out of afghanistan and Pakistan us wont care for whether and force pakisatan to destroy terrorist hub. once taliban involved or supported governemnt is installed in Afghanistan in modified form by ISI we will see START OF phase 2 of terror war in india specially kashmir

second india has ablilty but our present ploicymakers lacks poltical will to syart war or even surgical strikes
 

Yusuf

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What you call lack of political will is actually a burden of democracy that we so cherish. If india was not a democracy, kandahar would not have happened. 160 people would have perished but the terrorists who are still at large and waging war against india would not have been released.

India will not start a war, but it can and will do what israelis do. Strike at the heart of terror hubs. pakistan will not be able to do sh!t about it as the international community will support india. It will be a political suicide if the government of that day doesn't do something like that as the people of india have lost patience.
 

Singh

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^^ yusuf bhai, Israelis do what they do because
1. They are militarily far far superior to Palestinians, Lebanese
2. They have overwhelming support of the US.
3. Their very existence is threatened.

OTOH
1. India is not at the moment far superior to Pak, as nukes pretty much evens the field.
2. We don't have overwhelming support. Read today's papers, India willing to talk to "good" taliban.
3. Life is cheap in India.

My proposal
1. Let Pakistan go on a downward spiral
2. Build capabilities
3. Give a crushing blow, at an appropriate time.
 

Yusuf

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I really beg to differ. I don't want india to start a war but would not mind pakistan starting one. It would give us an op to show the world we were the victims and at the same time screw the hell out of them.

I think this nuke blackmail is just that. Its a bluff that I feel india should call. If it comes to it, pakistanI leadership will decide not to use it no matter what their nuke doctrine says. barking dogs seldom bite is what I am reminded about.

As far as comparing the opposition that israelis face, yes its true that we have a stiffer opposition, but not a one that we can't dominate. A cruise missile strike in PoK is not a big task is it? Terror camps in muzzaffarabad being targeted and others. Even if they are mere tents and even if they are deserted. like I said before, those guys will get the message.
 

Scorpion

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I have a different take on the issue, just as is said, china will fight India till the last Pakistani, same ways India needs to fight its war with Pakistan through a’stan and through other countries/groups that are anti pakistan. Yes when a terror strike happens the emotions are high, but we do need to think out what is best in our interest than get swayed in emotional outbursts and I have my serious doubts that a direct war with Pakistan is ever going to be in our interest.

We have a neighbour in china which is growing by leaps and bounds, as the things stand today, they effectively are 12/13 years ahead of us economically, a difference that we have successfully not allowed to increase for the past almost two decades now, and it has all been possible because we have had a climate where investments can happen, people can have healthy returns on these investments which has yielded us some very good growth rate figures over the years.

The first thing that happens when a war takes place is, the investor pulls out money creating a panic in the financial system of a country, which in it self should be enough to cause a disaster right from flight of money to depreciation of currency which reduces the buying value of a currency which in effect hits out at the inflation to people lining up in front of banks to take out their money so that government does not confiscate that money which totally paralyses the whole system, and all this makes sure the road back to some sort of a sanity to prevail will take a lot of time which could well run into a lot of years.

Now in a war enemy attacks sensitive areas, infrastructure, things of national importance and all these already have had a lot of money invested, so just to rebuild all this will take a lot of time, money and energy. And a war in it self is never cheap, and comes with a huge package of miseries with a lot of disfigured people who get injured and survive for another painful day.

What this will effectively do is set India back by at least a decade and in a worst case scenario by may be two decades from today, and then you will have a bully of a neighbour in the form of china eager to capture arunachal which would be just too happy to see India end up that ways and if seen from their PoV we would have fallen in their best laid trap.

Better strategy would be to finance and arm the enemies of the state of Pakistan to teeth and keep Pakistan bogged down with in its internal conflicts. I doubt anyone here subscribes to conspiracy theories coming out of Pakistan but if one does by any stretch of imagination then India has avenged 26/11 by at least 20 times, with pakistan’s economy in complete doldrums whit a completely demoralized country with not a single shot fired from India, with a growth rate that is expected to touch 9% in another quarter or two, and with a future that is only expected to get better.

Think smart!
Smart Thinker!

This was on of the few post I have admired on defence forums quite impressed by the details you have given

Keep it up
 

anoop_mig25

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^^ yusuf bhai, Israelis do what they do because
1. They are militarily far far superior to Palestinians, Lebanese
2. They have overwhelming support of the US.
3. Their very existence is threatened.

OTOH
1. India is not at the moment far superior to Pak, as nukes pretty much evens the field.
2. We don't have overwhelming support. Read today's papers, India willing to talk to "good" taliban.
3. Life is cheap in India.

My proposal
1. Let Pakistan go on a downward spiral
2. Build capabilities
3. Give a crushing blow, at an appropriate time.
i dout it because even if americans back out at this moment israeil wont stop attacking terrorist second since palestine as a nation isn`t strong in militrary trems so they started this jihad against israeil .
Isnt our existence is threatened by this all terrorist activity.after all as nation till what time we are going to bear all such things, should we wait for a time when some political head is killed by this them so that our stupid politicians have right morale to fight against our enemy

What you call lack of political will is actually a burden of democracy that we so cherish. If india was not a democracy, kandahar would not have happened. 160 people would have perished but the terrorists who are still at large and waging war against india would not have been released.

India will not start a war, but it can and will do what israelis do. Strike at the heart of terror hubs. pakistan will not be able to do sh!t about it as the international community will support india. It will be a political suicide if the government of that day doesn't do something like that as the people of india have lost patience.
even to carry out that requires political will. we know that at time of Indria gandhi (during her first term) we had good network of raw in our enemy countries because of which all our enemy were boughed down due to their internal problems.once morarji desai government came all this network got destroyed and she how we are still paying for it and yes i to support your sheet for intrnational community because this people can`t do anything
:cool::cool::cool:
 

BunBunCake

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i dout it because even if americans back out at this moment israeil wont stop attacking terrorist second since palestine as a nation isn`t strong in militrary trems so they started this jihad against israeil .
Isnt our existence is threatened by this all terrorist activity.after all as nation till what time we are going to bear all such things, should we wait for a time when some political head is killed by this them so that our stupid politicians have right morale to fight against our enemy
We do have threat from terrorists from Pakistan.
If another 26/11 happens, I would hope to expect some harsher actions from India. Hopefully it won't again beg the international community to put pressure on Pakistan. Because we know well how well these European countries and the U.S listens to India.

Strike them if one more attack happens!
We have correct justification then. If the U.S then complains 'we are disappointed and concerned with India, the usual BS they give' then we can slam them for Invading Afghan, Iraq. Because we would be then invading/striking in Pakistan to 'protect' our country.
 

Rage

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"Can India strike Pakistan?"

Not a cat's chance in hell.

Not with present force projection levels, states of preparedness and dissimilarities in troop strengths.

We are no Israel. And Pakistan ain't no Lebanon.

Even given the conventional military disparity and despite India's military modernisation, Pakistan can fight India to a draw, even if one were to ignore the nuclear aspect. An Indian military strike will most likely be subject to international condemnation and intervention. Not least from Pakistan's sugadaddies China and the United States.

The US can absorb the costs of war and reconstruction in Iraq. The Indian economy is in a take-off stage and growing at a healthy rate. A simple cost-benefit analysis would tell you that it is not in India's interest to jeopardize its overall stability and well-being to pursue a misadventure against Pakistan.

However, might I suggest that all the ballyhooing and threat of war is for a different purpose. With each round of brinkmanship, India seeks to extract more concessions, greater international leverage and greater implementation along the lines of a statist, anti-proxy, anti-jihadist vision. It also seeks to extract international pressure by drawing attention to the growing menace of state-sponsored terrorist camps inside Pakisthan, that a 'responsible, growing nation-state' like India (and to some lesser extent China) is affected by. With each tactic of goading and belligerence, it reserves its frustrations to employ in future use as more cumulatively 'legitimate' precipitation of response against a weakened, more widely disparate enemy.
 

blade

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Dear friends cold start is all about proactive measures. Under this strategy no one plays a responsive role. We must keep in mind that pakistan always tried to employ similiar tactics in its earlier misadventures against india which gave them significant initial upper hand but it was possible just because they are a smallar nation compared to india and got away with international support were as india will face international resistance. After 1971 war US & Uk did a lot of anti india propaganda which is yet to be fully absorbed by indian diplomates. More over our lousy strategic mistakes has seen pakistan getting hold of a good number of nukes as well as enough powerful delivery systems. Their nuke doctrines can never be trusted. They are n ot iraq. Even thought saddam was a tyrant every bit of iraqi movement was completely under his command and control where as in the case of pakistani i will not be surprized if a portion of their nukes are in direct command of ISI or pak army. This is a dreadful situation. I am personally convinced that even on the slightest context pak will resort to its nukes. Even a handful of nukes can do havoc to indian aspirations.We should urgently review out nuke doctrine and some tricky clauses must be incorporated.I dont think any kind of conventional adventure against pakistan will be atall possible any time soon ..we have spoiled all the opporutnites.Now diplomatic and economic war is the only way out. Using a well thought out and scary nuke doctrine we will have to keep pakistan at bay in case of a chine agression. This time in case of any chinese movement in the arunachal area will be used powerfully by pakistani army to free the rest portion of kashmir. Here we can ammend our nuke doctrines to effectively disjoint any kind of pakitsani involevement in chinese movement. Already its too late. GOI is doing well no doubt but we gotta be more proactive and tough.Our AAD and PAD needs some real shot in the arm by huge investment released , joint venture , further purchase of some of the proven systems etc etc. It will have a shaterring psychological effect. I am also convinced that pakistan is surprizingly near to MIRV technology. I will not be stunned if they can MIRV their missiles a few years before india can do the same. This will again counter the indian BMDs to a large extent ( i am only talking about the psychological aspects ).All this current indian military modernization is basically just to counter any pakistani or chinese misadventure. Its really shamefull that inspite of being 3 times in size we cannot do anything to pakistan. They had always been very smart no doubt about it and the earlier we realize it the better it is. Even pakistan will soon have significant second strike capability owing to their sub launched babur cruise missiles. This will nullify almost all the advantage that IN may have over pakistan by inducting SSBN's ...a nice and cheap solution...We must realize that pakistan has done and still doing very very well to aquire assymetric capabilities where as we lack such smart moves against china. If India thinks that just because 30 nukes are enough to take out pakistan it will be prudent to built around 100 such weapons then they are again making a mistake as this nuke war is something that is played more on psychological level than on the ground and thus we need over whelming numbers to intimidate our enemies. with more than 200 nukes pakistan will always feel itself in a better position to destroy india in the first strike itself. They may even try to take out majority of indian navy using nukes and hope that our SSBN with limited ground attack capability will succumb to this. with 700km SLBM arihants locatiion will be severely constrained and predictible. They may try to use a dozen nuke missiles to effectively annihilate anything within the this range.This is a country of fanatics. The recent economic rise of India has pinched them very badly. They have very little to loose compared to us. So from every angle they are in a far suprerior position to raise a nuke war. We need a reincarnation of chanakya at the earliest to save us from this mess.
 

M.Riaz

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We do have threat from terrorists from Pakistan.
If another 26/11 happens, I would hope to expect some harsher actions from India. Hopefully it won't again beg the international community to put pressure on Pakistan. Because we know well how well these European countries and the U.S listens to India.

Strike them if one more attack happens!
We have correct justification then. If the U.S then complains 'we are disappointed and concerned with India, the usual BS they give' then we can slam them for Invading Afghan, Iraq. Because we would be then invading/striking in Pakistan to 'protect' our country.
Harsh actions do you mean surgical strikes as was published before then as the next post points out clearly does india have the capability? if yes what is to be achieved by surgical strikes rather than compounding the misery of the common man it will lead to bigger tensions and let me assure surgical strikes inside pakistan wont be tolerated pakistan is not a country who will lie down and let india walk all over the problem of terrorism can be solved by greater amount of co-operation rather than glossy page3 talk solve the issues of kashmir. the best part would be to stop the big boss attitude and walk together also the blame game has to stop no point blaming each other at every small incident if you really think pakistan is at fault then ask your authorities to take proper action to solve the issue rather than ranting on media and making loose talks
 

Rayala

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Harsh actions do you mean surgical strikes as was published before then as the next post points out clearly does india have the capability? if yes what is to be achieved by surgical strikes rather than compounding the misery of the common man it will lead to bigger tensions and let me assure surgical strikes inside pakistan wont be tolerated pakistan is not a country who will lie down and let india walk all over the problem of terrorism can be solved by greater amount of co-operation rather than glossy page3 talk solve the issues of kashmir. the best part would be to stop the big boss attitude and walk together also the blame game has to stop no point blaming each other at every small incident if you really think pakistan is at fault then ask your authorities to take proper action to solve the issue rather than ranting on media and making loose talks
Yep, Pakistan will react sharply if their sovereignty is violated by any surgical strikes by India. HINT: see Pakistan's reaction when US drones violate Pakistan sovereignty every week. =omg=
 

M.Riaz

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Yep, Pakistan will react sharply if their sovereignty is violated by any surgical strikes by India. HINT: see Pakistan's reaction when US drones violate Pakistan sovereignty every week. =omg=
yes true since you fail to understand the idea between the two suggest you think deeply about what co-operation and what aggression means
 

Rayala

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BunBunCake

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Harsh actions do you mean surgical strikes as was published before then as the next post points out clearly does india have the capability?
Sir, our satellites right now can map out all of Pakistan =)
I don't think it would be hard for our air force to gather intelligence.

And also, you ask what is to be achieved by surgical strikes. Nothing actually. Not in this state as Pakistan is willing to cooperate. But IF another attack happens, then surgical strikes will mean that with India attacking also, the terrorists will start to die out. There will be limited/ no threat if these terrorist organizations and camps in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir are destroyed.
 
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why would this be viewed by Pakistan as Indian aggression if there was an attack by India against terrorists, the aggression would not be against Pakistani military,government or civilians. This lack of differentiation is from the reluctance by Pakistan to abandon keeping terrorists for strategic depth.
 

Yusuf

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Any surgical strike will have more symbolic than actual substance. Even if we manage to kill a number of terrorists in the strike and knock of some camps, may be the muridke HQ of the LeT, the more important after effect will be not the number of terrorists killed and camps destroyed, but the fact that India will now attack if there is any terror strikes against India. It means India will not take it lying down. What that will do is put fear in the minds of the terrorists who will always feel that a missile will be coming their way any moment. That will also mean that the Internatiional community feeling that such strikes will lead to a war between two nuke nations will start to put pressure on Pakistan to stop the terrorists and the terror infrastructure.

One strike of such a nature will be more than enough to set the ball in motion.
 

Soham

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Harsh actions do you mean surgical strikes as was published before then as the next post points out clearly does india have the capability? if yes what is to be achieved by surgical strikes rather than compounding the misery of the common man it will lead to bigger tensions and let me assure surgical strikes inside pakistan wont be tolerated pakistan is not a country who will lie down and let india walk all over the problem of terrorism can be solved by greater amount of co-operation rather than glossy page3 talk solve the issues of kashmir. the best part would be to stop the big boss attitude and walk together also the blame game has to stop no point blaming each other at every small incident if you really think pakistan is at fault then ask your authorities to take proper action to solve the issue rather than ranting on media and making loose talks
Yes, Pakistan will not take it lying down. But their anger will be limited to words. You know as well as I do, that Pakistan is not in a position to launch a full scale war against India. In this case, it will also lack any strategic surprise.

What other options ? retaliatory strikes ? I'm sure that will be something IAF expects, and will therefore be prepared. Once a fighter is shot down(of either side), the inevitable result will be a full scale air war, unless Pakistan puts brakes on it. If continued, we'll not be the aggressors in international eyes.
 

arps

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Presently Indian Army dont have the required edge over pak army to attack inside Pakistan.If we do it, we will loose heavily also.There's no point to attack,if we dont have clear edge and loose poor soldiers heavily. And Pakistan will never use nukes if India follow the cold start theory properly.Its the Pakistan's clever diplomacy to scare the whole world that it can use nukes and in this way eventually it ensures that India dont utilize its conventional edge on it. 50-100 nukes is much more sufficient for the nuke war(even if it happens).Instead we need to increase our conventional supremacy to 3:1 and missile defence system as strong as possible to make any point.
 

Vyom

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I think all in all, the best options for India is to strengthen intelligence and internal security to such extent that no major terrorist strike could ever happen. Everyone looking into internal security, from top to bottom, must realize that their minor or major negligence could lead to a possible war with a nuclear and a very unstable neighbor. Keeping that in mind all agencies responsible for internal security must work in absolute tandem to avert any major terrorist strike. This would also frustrate the terrorists and their handlers and may lead to their energy being directed towards each other. I think GoI would find extremely difficult to resist a retaliatory attack, if another major incidence occurs.

India will have to decide, if it has protect its overall and long-term interests by not retaliating or retaliate to save the face of not being a weak nation. I think the former is the more sane choice.
 

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