Can India do a Falklands war type campaign if PLAN takes over Andamans

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal,

i am not sure how true was chinese submarine popping in the middle of US Navy exercise, or was it allowed to have happen on purpose but if it was true and went undetected, do we still feel as confident?

Yes, to some extend i do..

1st thing we need to see where it happen i.e Pacific ocean where ocean is deep
2nd Where it poped out ? War games like those are played around 70 or more kms over the ocean..

Indeed PLAN subs are stealthy but Andaman sea is shallow nor its that big where our resources fall short..
Its possible that PLAN sub stealthy visit that area but cannot do it on regular bases, once known ASW helo on the island and corvettes will be dispatched in the area on short notice..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

That not he point..........we would be more focused to the western side because we have Chinese fleet here. The point of having a naval base in pakistan, means that India's focus remains to the western front, cause thats a real threat, rather than chinese wanting to occupy andaman later.

Chinease fleet consist of what ?, China is upgrading PN with the ships can take on IN western fleet, China only maintained that base as a political move, That location is more like a death trap, Also Virrat a AC with western fleet will be carrying out anti-ship strikes as the ships PN have and the once sold by PLAN dont have long range SAMs to counter Harriers on far seas where PAF is not avaliable, Also Delhi class destroyer have effective sam cover..

Also dont miss out the IAF bases responsible for CAP over Arabian sea mainly protecting Indian Naval forces ..

Also China have to move that fleet from South china sea to Arabian in IN watch, IN would never allow such thing, When it reach Pakistan it will stay their until the situation is over..

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Yes, to some extend i do..

1st thing we need to see where it happen i.e Pacific ocean where ocean is deep
2nd Where it poped out ? War games like those are played around 70 or more kms over the ocean..

Indeed PLAN subs are stealthy but Andaman sea is shallow nor its that big where our resources fall short..
Its possible that PLAN sub stealthy visit that area but cannot do it on regular bases, once known ASW helo on the island and corvettes will be dispatched in the area on short notice..

in war games one would assume there would be a strong security cover, reason being, there is always a chance that the enemy forces and others would be keeping an eye from air, from vessels on the sea and from deep within the waters, so would it not be wrong if they were not expecting it? and if it is wrong then 70-100-200kms off the shores should make no difference what so ever, sorry but that sounds an excuse and if i am not mistaken 250miles from the shores is considered one's own territory. a lay man's sense like my says, a war game on the waters would have a good security cover because it would not just be about covering the war games that are happening and being a part of it but also about keeping an eye on what the enemies are upto in the vicinity given that time period, which is what would be the real test.

i take the point of deep water and no such thing in the andaman waters, and the advantage is there.

there is another point, and mind you i am not try to show down the navy, no, but i have my concerns. do the navy vessels generally keep getting entangled in freak accidents? here are a few links:

2006:

Navy's missile boat sinks

This is the fourth major accident involving Indian naval ships in a little over two years.

Navy's missile boat sinks - India - DNA

in 2009-10 there this another accident that happened with a merchant vessel in the high seas, sorry cant find the source.

2011 - BBC News - Stricken Indian warship 'to be salvaged'

 

[utubekhiladi]

Of course it will be detected, but you won't be ready for it as there is nothing to suspect. It already got close to island this year.

The Eastern Command now has more than 50 major warships — up from around 30 in 2005 — of a total of 170 that makes up the Indian Navy's total fleet. so there is no way your fishing boat can pull off any stunt. also, not to mention that we also have IAF and ARMY operating nearby. here are few ship names that operates under eastern command.

INS Jalashwa amphibious vessel with six onboard helicopters (imported from the US) that is the second largest ship in the navy, the Italy-built fleet tanker INS Shakti and the indigenous stealth frigate, the INS Shivalik. A second Shivalik-class frigate, the INS Satpura etc.. and modern frigates are capabale to fire brahmos and other surface missiles. lets see if your fishing boats can come close to our islands during war time.

Navy priority signal to eastern ports

here is an evidence of IAF's presences near those islands.

The sonic boom generated by the Sukhoi-30 and Jaguar strike fighters as they tear into the sky over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands gives one clear signal.......

IAF's Car Nicobar base battle-ready - Times Of India
IAF to increase level of its force in Andaman and Nicobar, IBN Live News

Sorry, but India never bought refueling kits for her fighters....Nope, IAF don't have buddy pods.

LOL. i know more about my fighters than you do.

Aerial refueling

su30mki buddy refueling (i am still searching for a full video; but this one should do the job)

we will launch Scalp and Apache cruise missiles at subcontinent airbases to shut them down.

I am still trying to figure out from where exactly will you launch those missiles as they have range of only 140miles

Well, French Marines come with Mistral and Roland 3 SAMs so anyone flying low enough to drop dumb bombs will be shot down

arey, kya baat hai!! well if that happens, don't you think that IN ships will be somewhere nearby to sink a fishing boat called Mistral.

Agni doesn't have a high enough CEP to use conventional warheads. It would be pretty ineffectual and a waste of India's nuclear deterrent. US and France are the only two countries that have the missile accuracy to make a hit and we don't. India getting into a nuclear war with France would be pretty funny since they can't hit it.

fine, you don't like agni, we will use hypersonic shaurya missile then it can hit its target within 10-30 meters of accuracy don't be under the impression that we cannot hit france with nuclear weapons.. even with our current aresenal we can hit any parts of france if required. plus, we will be testing Agni-5 these year. plus, we also have N.subs capabale to launch N.Missiles.

Set up an impenetrable SAM defence with a working airbase along with a carrier and India would be unable to mount a retake

And how long will it take to setup a 'working airbase' and setup SAM batteries? remember, we can air-drop paratroppers within half-a-day. I would also like to know what kind of technology do you guys have to interecept a hypersonic missile like shaurya that travels beyond mach 5+ (like shaurya) and what will be its successful interception rate? again, our missiles will smoke anything that is france on that island.

so, considering the above fact that there will be atleast 50 warships operating under eastern command backed by IAF, do you still think that your fishing boat will be able to pull off any surprise moves? before your fishing boat can get to the islands, it will have to first face southern and western command ships. even if your fishing boat manages to reach the islands, then it will have to face the IAF stationed in there. even if you manage to defeat the IAF then you will need to hold the island untill rein-forcement arrives and rein-forcement is something that you cannot dream about during that time....

now, from talking about taking the island by surprise you are now actually taking about full war senario by bringing carriers, awacs, supply conveys, fighters etc etc LOL. so now you do agree that taking the island is not a childs play, don't you?

picture worths thousand words.. thanks to known_unknown

bang on!!! with your fishing boat

 

[Kunal Biswas]

in war games one would assume there would be a strong security cover, reason being, there is always a chance that the enemy forces and others would be keeping an eye from air, from vessels on the sea and from deep within the waters, so would it not be wrong if they were not expecting it? and if it is wrong then 70-100-200kms off the shores should make no difference what so ever, sorry but that sounds an excuse and if i am not mistaken 250miles from the shores is considered one's own territory. a lay man's sense like my says, a war game on the waters would have a good security cover because it would not just be about covering the war games that are happening and being a part of it but also about keeping an eye on what the enemies are upto in the vicinity given that time period, which is what would be the real test.

i take the point of deep water and no such thing in the andaman waters, and the advantage is there.

there is another point, and mind you i am not try to show down the navy, no, but i have my concerns. do the navy vessels generally keep getting entangled in freak accidents? here are a few links:

2006:


in 2009-10 there this another accident that happened with a merchant vessel in the high seas, sorry cant find the source.

2011 - BBC News - Stricken Indian warship 'to be salvaged'

Keeping an eye is very possible given the situation favorable for PLAN subs in that area..

Shoot and Run is also feasible by PLAN sub is possible but that would be very damaging for future operation and safety of that very vessel, Its shallow and not big enough where one can find a easy escape, Also in that small space..

Regarding accidents 'Only In Mumbai.. '


Their is a vid on net abt merchant vessel stuck with IN ship, It was fault of the merchant vessel, Traffic rules on sea around Mumbai are same as traffic rules on road in mumbai..

 

[Armand2REP]

Armand, your Mistral may have gone close to the islands, but the question is was it detected or not. A lot of ships might be passing great nicobar at short distance because of its proximity to the Malaccas, do you think India does not have that covered? Do you think there is no intel gathering mechanism there? For Gods sake that is sovereign Indian territory that India will protect at all costs and have its defenses ready.

Another thing, does India need to worry about a French Mistral getting close? It doesnt. But a chinese boat will be tracked from a distance and will not be allowed to come anywhere close to Indian border. The difference is threat perception. Friend or foe.

Lets say RAW has intel that the French taskforce coming form Reunion is indeed aiming for A&N, but you don't know it is Car Nicobar exactly. You have 4 hours before Rafales bomb Port Blair and 24hrs before 3500 Marines start landing... what do you do?

 

[debasree]

And Napoleon defeated every corner of Germany and most of Europe... history is the past. Mistral in peaceful stance can sneak up and launch a battalion before you even know it is on the island. Bang bang and it is over in an hour. Any ship in range of Mistral would be sunk by Rafales in a matter of minutes.

one mistral phooh...brahmos will take care of them before urs battalion even step in the land,and sukhoy will take care of the french rafels and come with urs whole air power ,1 or2 squadron will be go up in smoke in the front iaf.and besides our sukhoy is far ahead than ur rafel besides with so small millitary u talking about attacking india please dont post garbage,and besides urs mighty french govt begging us for getting contract for the same rafel and mistral buddy so fresh urs mind and began post here urs nato alli will not help in urs dream u alone cannot even deffend urs own homeland,so ..................dont

 

[Yusuf]

Lets say RAW has intel that the French taskforce coming form Reunion is indeed aiming for A&N, but you don't know it is Car Nicobar exactly. You have 4 hours before Rafales bomb Port Blair and 24hrs before 3500 Marines start landing... what do you do?

Question is why? Why will France think about taking Indian territory. Lets not get into imaginary threats just for the heck of it. Chinese threat is real. Anyways, i would imagine it would be easier to take the island but very difficult to hold it. It will serve no purpose.

Anyways, 4 hours to launch Rafales from where in the ocean? and 24 hours is a pretty decent time for India to fly in its own troops.

 

[Armand2REP]

The Eastern Command now has more than 50 major warships — up from around 30 in 2005 — of a total of 170 that makes up the Indian Navy's total fleet. so there is no way your fishing boat can pull off any stunt. also, not to mention that we also have IAF and ARMY operating nearby. here are few ship names that operates under eastern command.

There are 18 fishing and speed boats in the A&N command area and none of them are a threat to a French warship.

here is an evidence of IAF's presences near those islands.

What, the sinking of MT Pravit? 42 ships have been stranded in the last three years yet the Navy and CG does NOTHING to prevent it. A French invasion could just float to the island and no one would bother it.

The sonic boom generated by the Sukhoi-30 and Jaguar strike fighters as they tear into the sky over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands gives one clear signal.......

"It took a six-hour sortie, with two mid-air refuellings from IL-78 tankers and some combat manoeuvres on the way, to reach here from Bareilly. It was tough being strapped in the cockpit for such a long time."

I am still trying to figure out from where exactly will you launch those missiles as they have range of only 140miles

140-186... come in at sea level and launch. Since they can't see 1000t vessels floating to the coast, they will never see Rafale.

arey, kya baat hai!! well if that happens, don't you think that IN ships will be somewhere nearby to sink a fishing boat called Mistral.

WoW, I don't think IN ships are even awake. Boats beach on the coast and no one does anything. Who needs Mistral when you can land commandos on a trawler and no one checks it out for a week.

fine, you don't like agni, we will use hypersonic shaurya missile then it can hit its target within 10-30 meters of accuracy don't be under the impression that we cannot hit france with nuclear weapons.. even with our current aresenal we can hit any parts of france if required. plus, we will be testing Agni-5 these year. plus, we also have N.subs capabale to launch N.Missiles.

How you going to use a research missile?

And how long will it take to setup a 'working airbase' and setup SAM batteries? remember, we can air-drop paratroppers within half-a-day. I would also like to know what kind of technology do you guys have to interecept a hypersonic missile like shaurya that travels beyond mach 5+ (like shaurya) and what will be its successful interception rate? again, our missiles will smoke anything that is france on that island.

SAMP-T can be set up in a matter of minutes while it covers the base preparation which takes a day. Depends on how much is intact to use, pre-armed fighters could use it immediately.

so, considering the above fact that there will be atleast 50 warships operating under eastern command backed by IAF, do you still think that your fishing boat will be able to pull off any surprise moves? before your fishing boat can get to the islands, it will have to first face southern and western command ships. even if your fishing boat manages to reach the islands, then it will have to face the IAF stationed in there. even if you manage to defeat the IAF then you will need to hold the island untill rein-forcement arrives and rein-forcement is something that you cannot dream about during that time....

There really aren't 50 warships operating in A&N. It is a handful of small patrol boats, tank landing ships and logistics carriers. It isn't a threat to the lightest French Patrol Frigate. The only aircraft stationed there are Mi-8 helicopters. Really, it is nothing.

now, from talking about taking the island by surprise you are now actually taking about full war senario by bringing carriers, awacs, supply conveys, fighters etc etc LOL. so now you do agree that taking the island is not a childs play, don't you?

Taking Port Blair would require a full Falklands style invasion as that is where the concentration of force is. There is nothing on Car Nicobar which is why it is selected as the target.

picture worths thousand words.. thanks to known_unknown

It is more like Chinese picture worth no words. French ships use the Suez and got a major base on Reunion. Take the last leg of that trip and you got the real distance.

bang on!!! with your fishing boat

Bang on, you can't even keep drifting cargo ships from leaking oil on your beaches.

 

[Yusuf]

Armand, I am not able to figure out if you are underestimating Indian Navy or overestimating French Navy just arrogant.

Either way it's good. India is on a learning curve to be a blue water navy. That is why it participates in many exercises and is also acquiring a lot of potent platforms. Who knows the very Mistral could be in the Indian Navy. Timeline 2020 is nearly a decade away. A lot will happen till then. Anyways we are worried about the Chinese and are not too threatened by them in our backyard but just a little wary and steps are being taken to address that.

 

[ace009]

I think Armand is high enough to think that France is the second superpower after USA. He thinks France can take on anyone, anywhere in the world! ROTFL ...

 

[utubekhiladi]

I provided Armand with all facts, evidence, references and citations and yet he is pretending to be ignorant. he is not ready to believe that there is southern and 50+ eastern command warships standing on his way and there is a full operational IAF base nearby, look at his lame arguments...;

Armand, believe whatever you want to, it doesn't really matter to us.

 

[Tshering22]

Wasn't this thread about PLAN? From where did French Navy come in?

 

[civfanatic]

French nationalists are always funny. Please continue with this thread, it's a good source of humour.

 

[arya]

guys what is importance of the thread

 

[Dovah]

guys what is importance of the thread

Determining whether we possess the capabilities to hold off an enemy offensive in case of an eventuality, this is a defence forum after all.
The discussion is quite entertaining IMO.

 

[Param]

There are 18 fishing and speed boats in the A&N command area and none of them are a threat to a French warship.



What, the sinking of MT Pravit? 42 ships have been stranded in the last three years yet the Navy and CG does NOTHING to prevent it. A French invasion could just float to the island and no one would bother it.



"It took a six-hour sortie, with two mid-air refuellings from IL-78 tankers and some combat manoeuvres on the way, to reach here from Bareilly. It was tough being strapped in the cockpit for such a long time."



140-186... come in at sea level and launch. Since they can't see 1000t vessels floating to the coast, they will never see Rafale.



WoW, I don't think IN ships are even awake. Boats beach on the coast and no one does anything. Who needs Mistral when you can land commandos on a trawler and no one checks it out for a week.



How you going to use a research missile?



SAMP-T can be set up in a matter of minutes while it covers the base preparation which takes a day. Depends on how much is intact to use, pre-armed fighters could use it immediately.



There really aren't 50 warships operating in A&N. It is a handful of small patrol boats, tank landing ships and logistics carriers. It isn't a threat to the lightest French Patrol Frigate. The only aircraft stationed there are Mi-8 helicopters. Really, it is nothing.



Taking Port Blair would require a full Falklands style invasion as that is where the concentration of force is. There is nothing on Car Nicobar which is why it is selected as the target.



It is more like Chinese picture worth no words. French ships use the Suez and got a major base on Reunion. Take the last leg of that trip and you got the real distance.



Bang on, you can't even keep drifting cargo ships from leaking oil on your beaches.

Vive la France

 

[utubekhiladi]

Armand, here is another pic of su30mki buddy refueling..

(admins, please move this pic to appropriate sections later)

 

[sandeepdg]

@ Armand,

Man, members like you contribute immensely to fun factor in DFI ! I am sure that you are high on dope. Only a fool like you can think that France will attack India for some puny gains. I am sure that your government and the French defense forces are much same than you are ! You come right out of a comic book, man. And, I am amazed that when you claim to be so smart, you haven't heard about TOM CLANCY

And for that Mistral rant that you have been going on for sometime, I think you are really an idiot if you thought that IN never had a clue that a Mistral was sailing by close to our coast.

By the way, you know the good thing about dreams, are that you can go completely with them, but unfortunately they never come true

 

[Yusuf]

Ok boys let's not get into a personal tiff. Armand is a serious contributor on DFI and we appreciate it. There can be difference in opinion but let us be professional in our arguments rather than branding anyone being on drugs.