Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at stake?

[Prometheus]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

Are you saying you are OK with the Chinese occupation?

yes she wanted autonomy... I had that conversation with her long back on YT .... but to be honest if the Tibetans take up arms against the chinese, that itself would be defeating the whole purpose wouldnt it ? I mean the Tibetans believe in non violence, to the extent that they had pic earthworms, before constructing a building, just so that they dont get accidentally killed. Its like star wars .... if you kill Darth vedar you automatically go to the dark side. Good can never win against the bad, the bad play with a totally different set of rules! ..... you have to become bad to fight bad .

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

@ Opening Post:

Pacifist religious belief (Buddhism) of the Tibetans may have been responsible for their current state. However, can we draw the same simile w.r.t. the Buddhist Sinhalas in the way they carried out certain gruesome acts, many of which were actually recorded as evidence?

I don't think people will think about religion when in rage or seeking vengeance.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

I will just quote Dinkar here for those who understand Hindi:

"Sahansheelta, shama, daya ko tabhi poojta jag hai
Bal ka darp chamakta uske peeche jab jagmag hai"

I think this explains the story so well. I think Tibetan culture will survive only through India. Probably Tibetans should forget about Tibet.

 

[civfanatic]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

Does anyone seriously believe that the Tibetans would have been more "successful" in resisting Chinese occupation had they resorted to violence?

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

Does anyone seriously believe that the Tibetans would have been more "successful" in resisting Chinese occupation had they resorted to violence?

Eggjactly, 6 million Tibetans against 1 billion Han. Also @Yusuf, Islam condones violence when its followers are in danger so why then are the Uighurs being digested like the Tibetans?

 

[Yusuf]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

Eggjactly, 6 million Tibetans against 1 billion Han. Also @Yusuf, Islam condones violence when its followers are in danger so why then are the Uighurs being digested like the Tibetans?

We cannot look at it from today's China. If Tibet had risen in the 50s and continued to oppose it would have been very bloody and we may have had a different situation in Tibet. It's completely off international radar right now.

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

We cannot look at it from today's China. If Tibet had risen in the 50s and continued to oppose it would have been very bloody and we may have had a different situation in Tibet. It's completely off international radar right now.

Your words are true, it would have been even more bloody if Tibetans actively resisted, the only thing is China would have done an actual genocide of the remaining Tibetans rather than just cultural genocide which happened later.

This has precedent, I believe the Qing empire eliminated around 70% of the Dzungar peoples when they fought against the Chinese.

 

[Yusuf]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

Your words are true, it would have been even more bloody if Tibetans actively resisted, the only thing is China would have done an actual genocide of the remaining Tibetans rather than just cultural genocide which happened later.

This has precedent, I believe the Qing empire eliminated around 70% of the Dzungar peoples when they fought against the Chinese.

The Chinese would have faced the wrath of the international community. China was not even a nuclear weapons state in the 50s

 

[civfanatic]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

The Chinese would have faced the wrath of the international community. China was not even a nuclear weapons state in the 50s

I don't think Mao really cared about the "wrath of the international community", considering he sent the PLA to fight directly against the U.S. and U.N. forces in Korea around the same time. General MacArthur was indeed considering using nuclear weapons against China during that time.

 

[Razor]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

I don't think Mao really cared about the "wrath of the international community", considering he sent the PLA to fight directly against the U.S. and U.N. forces in Korea in the same decade. General MacArthur was indeed considering using nuclear weapons against China during that time.

Holy shit, dude. I was just gonna post this.
Gotta give it to PRC, they were ready to take on Nuclear (and slightly crazy) USA after the PRC had just emerged from a devastating civil war.

 

[Yusuf]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

I don't think Mao really cared about the "wrath of the international community", considering he sent the PLA to fight directly against the U.S. and U.N. forces in Korea around the same time. General MacArthur was indeed considering using nuclear weapons against China during that time.

Wouldn't that have been good if the US threatened nukes over Tibet issue and actually used it. Mao would have been deposed by the Chinis for that no matter how powerful he was.

 

[civfanatic]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

Wouldn't that have been good if the US threatened nukes over Tibet issue and actually used it. Mao would have been deposed by the Chinis for that no matter how powerful he was.

The U.S. would have lost Western Europe along with most of Asia to the Soviets if it had went ahead and nuked China.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

I don't think Mao really cared about the "wrath of the international community", considering he sent the PLA to fight directly against the U.S. and U.N. forces in Korea around the same time. General MacArthur was indeed considering using nuclear weapons against China during that time.

They also handed US a defeat in Vietnam by backing the communists.

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

Wouldn't that have been good if the US threatened nukes over Tibet issue and actually used it. Mao would have been deposed by the Chinis for that no matter how powerful he was.

Why would the US nuke China in the first place over Tibet? Tibet served no strategic interests to the US. US is master at realpolitik.

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

They also handed US a defeat in Vietnam by backing the communists.

Actually it was the Vietnamese communists who kicked Han ass. I think PRC supported Khmer Rouge instead.

 

[Razor]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

Wouldn't that have been good if the US threatened nukes over Tibet issue and actually used it. Mao would have been deposed by the Chinis for that no matter how powerful he was.

First, Mac Arthur was sacked by then POTUS (Truman) after he indicated that he would use nukes. Soviet response would also have to be considered.

 

[Yusuf]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

Why would the US nuke China in the first place over Tibet? Tibet served no strategic interests to the US. US is master at realpolitik.

CIA was actively involved in Tibet along with India till India developed cold feet. US interests would have been served with independent Tibet. Another corridor to the CAR.

 

[Razor]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

Actually it was the Vietnamese communists who kicked Han ass. I think PRC supported Khmer Rouge instead.

Those were two different wars.
Vietnam war: US vs. (Commies)
Sino-Vietnam War: Vietnam vs PRC,Khmer Rouge

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

The U.S. would have lost Western Europe along with most of Asia to the Soviets if it had went ahead and nuked China.

I don't think Europeans would have cared Asia/Russia yes.(it would have been the second time
nuclear weapons were used against Asians) why it was not used against Germany in ww2 and only japan?
Germans had strongholds in 2 fronts,

 

[Das ka das]

Re: Can a pacifist religious belief be changed when survival is at sta

CIA was actively involved in Tibet along with India till India developed cold feet. US interests would have been served with independent Tibet. Another corridor to the CAR.

As other posters have said, it wasn't a unipolar world back then...there was MAD to consider.