Buddha was a Scythian Arian of Budins in Ancient Ukraine: Scholar

[pmaitra]

Here is how Ukraine is written in Ukrainian or Russian "Украина", "Краина" means country in Ukrainian," У " means "in" . In Russian it is all different, "in" in Russian is "в", like v, country in Russian is "страна". Borderland is written like that "Окраина" in Russian and in Ukrainian it is a different word.
Yes Rus is the same Rus in Kievan Rus. Before the Mongol invasion, if there was ever an invasion the subject is still disputed, the Rus world was split up in to many kingdomes, some small and some large and powerful. All had same religion and all had similar labguages. After the Monogl Invasion the southern Rus Lands (Modern Ukraine) became weaker and the power shifted to the north, where Moscow was on the rise. The lands of Kievan Rus were split up. It is a long story, which you can read for yourself, but the bottom line is that only pro-russian or polish propagandists say that there was no Ukraine and we had no language. It is just a misrepresentation of facts. Sure our nation had a complicated history, but our people managed to survive and now have a right to be free in our own country and speaking our own language.

I am still curious and would nonetheless ask the questions. It is fine if you don't want to answer the questions if you don't feel like. I'll ask anyways.

I would assume that Ukrainian and Russian are fraternal languages and the people are fraternal people.

Just like in India, in Hindi or Sanskrit, 'bhrata' means brother, in Russian 'брат' means brother, in German it is 'Bruder' and in English is it 'brother'. Other related words are 'fraternity', 'federation', etc..
Similarly, 'agni' in Sanskrit and many Indian languages means fire, which is 'огонь' is Russian and 'ignis' in Latin and we have 'ignite' in English which means to light a fire.
There are way too many similarities. Should I be surprised that 'Украина' and 'Окраина' would have such a divergent meaning in the two languages despite being next to each other forever and having such an overlapping population ever since the times of the Kazan Khanate till date? After all, the two languages are fraternal and so are the people.

I am asking this because we have seen many attempts, including in India, where political change heralds a new era of re-writing history or nullifying an existing idea. Of course, I am in no way competent enough to say whether the existing idea is correct or the new idea is correct.

 

[Armand2REP]

Do you want me to start writing things about French history that you are not going to like? Are you even French? If you go back to my first post and read it carefully, you will see that I was talking about the ancient history and did not connect anything to modern Ukraine. So you are barking and the wrong tree for no good reason, unless you have a reason and that is why I asked you what is your angle in such discussion.
And by the way, why could not you have found easy women in France? You have plenty of prostitutes and poor cheap ladies on call there? Is that the kind of conversation you are provoking

The next thread that comes up with Francophiles claiming Buddha came from the Gauls, you go ahead writing about French history. Are you even Ukrainian? Must not be if you don't read Russian. If you go back to my first post you will see that I am making fun of Pan-Ukrainians and their revisionist history. I certainly won't sit here and watch it from you.
And by the way, I was not looking for easy women in Ukraine. They sought me out. I certainly wouldn't degrade them by calling them prostitutes as they got no money. When I am France, I am not rich so Gold Diggers do not seek me out.

 

[kranshteun]

I am still curious and would nonetheless ask the questions. It is fine if you don't want to answer the questions if you don't feel like. I'll ask anyways.

I would assume that Ukrainian and Russian are fraternal languages and the people are fraternal people.

Just like in India, in Hindi or Sanskrit, 'bhrata' means brother, in Russian 'брат' means brother, in German it is 'Bruder' and in English is it 'brother'. Other related words are 'fraternity', 'federation', etc..
Similarly, 'agni' in Sanskrit and many Indian languages means fire, which is 'огонь' is Russian and 'ignis' in Latin and we have 'ignite' in English which means to light a fire.
There are way too many similarities. Should I be surprised that 'Украина' and 'Окраина' would have such a divergent meaning in the two languages despite being next to each other forever and having such an overlapping population ever since the times of the Kazan Khanate till date? After all, the two languages are fraternal and so are the people.

I am asking this because we have seen many attempts, including in India, where political change heralds a new era of re-writing history or nullifying an existing idea. Of course, I am in no way competent enough to say whether the existing idea is correct or the new idea is correct.

Oh sure. I understand what you say. We have same problems. Russia and Ukraine are a very brotherly nations and our languages are very similar. In case with Ukraina and Okraina it is a very tricky situation. First of all there are no historical documents to help us really see how this word was represented. On the other hand, Ukrainians never called their country "borderland", and "kraina" means country ONLY in Ukrainian and not in Russian. Even if we just use a simple logic, how can a country be called borderland if it is bigger in size than most countries in Europe? Sure, Moscow people might have called it the land beyond the border, but back in old times, while the western part was occupied by Poland, the land was called Kievshina, after our capital Kiev. To be honest, I really do not care how you call it, I wish they would bring an old name Kievan Rus. But if we refer to our language then the most likely explanation is "The Country" or "In the country" .
The language is a different story. I am not even going to talk about how modern Russian linguists explain the subject of Russian and Ukrainian language; they simply say that Ukrainian is a dialect of Russian and Polish. It is totally bogus, and I am not saying this just because I want to protest it, no. First of all, the Russian we know today has been developed and formulated during the last 300 years. lomonosov was one of the first to start identifying the true Russian language few hundred years ago. Before that time people of Russia and Ukraine spoke a similar type of language but, it is a big but, Russian language back then sounded more like Ukrainian with 'I" in the end of words. Polish, on the other hand, is very different in pronunciation and words from Ukrainian. The frame of time when western Ukraine was under Polish domination was simply not sufficient to create a new language in Ukraine. Russian nationalists, and misunderstood people like this French Armand, must take this for a fact - Ukrainian language is a part of Old ancient Slavic languages and , thus, is a part of post Indo-European branch. International linguists have already talked about it. Example: Ukrainian language has many similar words and pronunciations with Bulgarian, Serbian, Chech and other Western Slavic languages, but Russian is the closest in terms of the structure and linguistic form. On the other hand (very important) Ukrainian is more similar in pronunciation to Slovakian and Serbian and even to Bulgarian than to Polish and Russian. At the same time, archaeologists prove that Slavs have spread into Western Europe from the planes of Ukraine and the lower reaches of Volga(south Russia). Taking all these facts (and there are more facts like I said the subject is massive) it is easy to see that Ukrainian, while going trough many changes and being influenced by other languages, has preserved its connection to the primary Slavic (late proto-indoEuropean language) and Russian is actually the one that moved further away from the Slavic Mother Language. There are so many examples of words that prove it that I will not have time and ink to write it all And it does not matter that official language was Polish during ocupation,people were still talking in their own, Ukrainian ancient language.
And, are you ready for the biggest surprise? The actual similarities with Sanskrit and some middle Eastern Languages are actually more pronounced when compared to the way Ukrainians say the same words, and not the Russians.

 

[kranshteun]

The next thread that comes up with Francophiles claiming Buddha came from the Gauls, you go ahead writing about French history. Are you even Ukrainian? Must not be if you don't read Russian. If you go back to my first post you will see that I am making fun of Pan-Ukrainians and their revisionist history. I certainly won't sit here and watch it from you.
And by the way, I was not looking for easy women in Ukraine. They sought me out. I certainly wouldn't degrade them by calling them prostitutes as they got no money. When I am France, I am not rich so Gold Diggers do not seek me out.

Understood, and what I want to say that I am not a part of Pan-Ukrainian Chauvinism. I tell you, I speak Russian better than most Russians. I also do not wish to list all of my accomplishments, not to mention the fact that I come from a family of workers and craftsmen, Priests and musicians, but never rich in fact, my last name - Kravets- has the same root as your French word Kravat(you know what that means) and it is an authentic old Ukrainian name after the trade of being a tailor. But I also had Cossack esauls in my ancestry (Cossack captains) and skilled craftsman, all coming from the province of Cherkasy(Central Ukraine) and we are all have darker hair and we are tall and horses are in the center of our lives for centuries. In my short 29 years I have lived in Ukraine, Turkey, Russia, Kazakhstan, Poland and USA and I respect every nation in world except those who are bent on Capitalism and globalization.

 

[pmaitra]

Oh sure. I understand what you say. We have same problems. Russia and Ukraine are a very brotherly nations and our languages are very similar. In case with Ukraina and Okraina it is a very tricky situation. First of all there are no historical documents to help us really see how this word was represented. On the other hand, Ukrainians never called their country "borderland", and "kraina" means country ONLY in Ukrainian and not in Russian. Even if we just use a simple logic, how can a country be called borderland if it is bigger in size than most countries in Europe? Sure, Moscow people might have called it the land beyond the border, but back in old times, while the western part was occupied by Poland, the land was called Kievshina, after our capital Kiev. To be honest, I really do not care how you call it, I wish they would bring an old name Kievan Rus. But if we refer to our language then the most likely explanation is "The Country" or "In the country" .
The language is a different story. I am not even going to talk about how modern Russian linguists explain the subject of Russian and Ukrainian language; they simply say that Ukrainian is a dialect of Russian and Polish. It is totally bogus, and I am not saying this just because I want to protest it, no. First of all, the Russian we know today has been developed and formulated during the last 300 years. lomonosov was one of the first to start identifying the true Russian language few hundred years ago. Before that time people of Russia and Ukraine spoke a similar type of language but, it is a big but, Russian language back then sounded more like Ukrainian with 'I" in the end of words. Polish, on the other hand, is very different in pronunciation and words from Ukrainian. The frame of time when western Ukraine was under Polish domination was simply not sufficient to create a new language in Ukraine. Russian nationalists, and misunderstood people like this French Armand, must take this for a fact - Ukrainian language is a part of Old ancient Slavic languages and , thus, is a part of post Indo-European branch. International linguists have already talked about it. Example: Ukrainian language has many similar words and pronunciations with Bulgarian, Serbian, Chech and other Western Slavic languages, but Russian is the closest in terms of the structure and linguistic form. On the other hand (very important) Ukrainian is more similar in pronunciation to Slovakian and Serbian and even to Bulgarian than to Polish and Russian. At the same time, archaeologists prove that Slavs have spread into Western Europe from the planes of Ukraine and the lower reaches of Volga(south Russia). Taking all these facts (and there are more facts like I said the subject is massive) it is easy to see that Ukrainian, while going trough many changes and being influenced by other languages, has preserved its connection to the primary Slavic (late proto-indoEuropean language) and Russian is actually the one that moved further away from the Slavic Mother Language. There are so many examples of words that prove it that I will not have time and ink to write it all And it does not matter that official language was Polish during ocupation,people were still talking in their own, Ukrainian ancient language.
And, are you ready for the biggest surprise? The actual similarities with Sanskrit and some middle Eastern Languages are actually more pronounced when compared to the way Ukrainians say the same words, and not the Russians.

Thanks for the detailed response. My knowledge about Ukrainian and Russian is rather limited and I am in the process of reading 'Learning Russian' by Nina Potapova.

Believe me, nothing would make me happier than the people or Russia, Ukraine and Belarus throw away their political disagreements and learn to love each other. In fact this applies to all countries and neighbourhoods.

I do appreciate you taking your time and explaining.

I would like you to elaborate on the last sentence about Sanskrit and Middle Eastern languages.

 

[Armand2REP]

Oh sure. I understand what you say. We have same problems. Russia and Ukraine are a very brotherly nations and our languages are very similar. In case with Ukraina and Okraina it is a very tricky situation. First of all there are no historical documents to help us really see how this word was represented. On the other hand, Ukrainians never called their country "borderland", and "kraina" means country ONLY in Ukrainian and not in Russian. Even if we just use a simple logic, how can a country be called borderland if it is bigger in size than most countries in Europe? Sure, Moscow people might have called it the land beyond the border, but back in old times, while the western part was occupied by Poland, the land was called Kievshina, after our capital Kiev. To be honest, I really do not care how you call it, I wish they would bring an old name Kievan Rus. But if we refer to our language then the most likely explanation is "The Country" or "In the country" .

Russia called it Malorossijskaya or Little Russia. The Tsar certainly never recognised any kind of Ukrainian state or even a Ukrainian people. They were called Ruthenian for a long time. The word Ukraina is ancient Slavonic for "frontier" or "vacant land" from the old settler folk tales, it wasn't until the 1800s that Ukraina refered to its people which is what the nationalists used to promote the idea of Ukraine and turned it into "my country". It was actually a Frenchman, Voltaire in the 1700s that made the word Ukraine popular in Western European usage with his writings of Charles XII into Ukraine. Shevchenko and Drahomanov made it big in Ukraine with their writings about the nationalist movement. The first official usage was not until 1917 with the Ukrainian National Republic which was quickly destroyed by the USSR.

The language is a different story. I am not even going to talk about how modern Russian linguists explain the subject of Russian and Ukrainian language; they simply say that Ukrainian is a dialect of Russian and Polish. It is totally bogus, and I am not saying this just because I want to protest it, no. First of all, the Russian we know today has been developed and formulated during the last 300 years. lomonosov was one of the first to start identifying the true Russian language few hundred years ago. Before that time people of Russia and Ukraine spoke a similar type of language but, it is a big but, Russian language back then sounded more like Ukrainian with 'I" in the end of words. Polish, on the other hand, is very different in pronunciation and words from Ukrainian. The frame of time when western Ukraine was under Polish domination was simply not sufficient to create a new language in Ukraine. Russian nationalists, and misunderstood people like this French Armand, must take this for a fact - Ukrainian language is a part of Old ancient Slavic languages and , thus, is a part of post Indo-European branch. International linguists have already talked about it. Example: Ukrainian language has many similar words and pronunciations with Bulgarian, Serbian, Chech and other Western Slavic languages, but Russian is the closest in terms of the structure and linguistic form. On the other hand (very important) Ukrainian is more similar in pronunciation to Slovakian and Serbian and even to Bulgarian than to Polish and Russian. At the same time, archaeologists prove that Slavs have spread into Western Europe from the planes of Ukraine and the lower reaches of Volga(south Russia). Taking all these facts (and there are more facts like I said the subject is massive) it is easy to see that Ukrainian, while going trough many changes and being influenced by other languages, has preserved its connection to the primary Slavic (late proto-indoEuropean language) and Russian is actually the one that moved further away from the Slavic Mother Language. There are so many examples of words that prove it that I will not have time and ink to write it all And it does not matter that official language was Polish during ocupation,people were still talking in their own, Ukrainian ancient language.

Dude, all Eastern Slavic languages come from Kievan Rus, Russian, Ukrainian, and Belorussian so to say it is not related to Russian is absurd. It was distorted over the centuries by Ruthenian of Poland and Lithuania Commonwealth which formed a new dialect of Western Slavic. So it has Eastern Slavic at its root but much influence from the Polish dominated West which lasted for several centuries. Russian as it sits now is much older than 300 years, in the 1750s they did away with writing in Church Slovanic and put it into the Moscovite dialect, the language didn't change, just the writing. It is closer to the Old Kyivan Rus dialect than modern Ukrainian. It didn't have the Polacks tainting the language.

 

[Armand2REP]

Understood, and what I want to say that I am not a part of Pan-Ukrainian Chauvinism. I tell you, I speak Russian better than most Russians. I also do not wish to list all of my accomplishments, not to mention the fact that I come from a family of workers and craftsmen, Priests and musicians, but never rich in fact, my last name - Kravets- has the same root as your French word Kravat(you know what that means) and it is an authentic old Ukrainian name after the trade of being a tailor. But I also had Cossack esauls in my ancestry (Cossack captains) and skilled craftsman, all coming from the province of Cherkasy(Central Ukraine) and we are all have darker hair and we are tall and horses are in the center of our lives for centuries. In my short 29 years I have lived in Ukraine, Turkey, Russia, Kazakhstan, Poland and USA and I respect every nation in world except those who are bent on Capitalism and globalization.

Guy, just about everything that comes over your keyboard is Pan-Ukrainian revisionist history. You speak Russian better than Russians? Kak vy dumaete kto pobedit ligu chempionov? Um... yeah, Kravat is not a French word, it is from the ties worn by Croatian cavalry units of Louis XIII. So I guess your family was from Croatia making ties.

 

[pmaitra]

Guy, just about everything that comes over your keyboard is Pan-Ukrainian revisionist history. You speak Russian better than Russians? Kak vy dumaete kto pobedit ligu chempionov? Um... yeah, Kravat is not a French word, it is from the ties worn by Croatian cavalry units of Louis XIII. So I guess your family was from Croatia and served as mercenaries in French cavalry units wearing ties.

Take it easy Monsieur.

Everyone likes to love his country; even Charles Trenet!

 

[Armand2REP]

Take it easy Monsieur.

Everyone likes to love his country; even Charles Trenet!

I don't think I would sing about it to international audiences like the singing madman. Well, at least he got paid.

 

[kranshteun]

So you are a Russian after all In that case we have nothing to talk about, since your motivation is known to me now. I know the History of my family and of my nation. Like I said before, your general facts are 100% the work of Russian propoganda and limited imagination. So long..
P. S. Manchester will win the Chempionship

 

[kranshteun]

Guy, just about everything that comes over your keyboard is Pan-Ukrainian revisionist history. You speak Russian better than Russians? Kak vy dumaete kto pobedit ligu chempionov? Um... yeah, Kravat is not a French word, it is from the ties worn by Croatian cavalry units of Louis XIII. So I guess your family was from Croatia making ties.

I never said Kravat comes form French come on, stop twisting my words to fit your own RAP. I will not talk about this subject anymore, because you are starting to get personal, a clear indication of lack of education. Simple remeberance of facts does not make you historian and Wickipedia is not a sourse of real history.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Buddha is a title not a name, his actually name was Gauthama Siddartha and sound very Indian indeed. I think post soviet collapse east Europe is left with an vacuum of their own History and they are seeking something great about themselves. I think East Europe when it compares itself with West europe they feel very inferior and so the growing amount of Raceism,Nazisism and other fascistic ideas are inspiring the youth in those countries.

 

[Armand2REP]

So you are a Russian after all In that case we have nothing to talk about, since your motivation is known to me now. I know the History of my family and of my nation. Like I said before, your general facts are 100% the work of Russian propoganda and limited imagination. So long..
P. S. Manchester will win the Chempionship

Tu dois etre une exception dans ce pays! Tu pouvais etre americain depuis le parler de l'anglais, n'est-ce pas? Guy, I speak four languages fluently so I must be French/English/Russian/Czech according to your logic. I must be part Chinese along with some Ukrainian too.

I never said Kravat comes form French come on, stop twisting my words to fit your own RAP. I will not talk about this subject anymore, because you are starting to get personal, a clear indication of lack of education. Simple remeberance of facts does not make you historian and Wickipedia is not a sourse of real history.

You must be Croat according to your surname, it is where Cravat came from. You think it is from Ukraine? Fine, stop spouting Pan-Ukranian bollocks and move on. I don't need Wiki when I have a nice volume of Slavic history here by Riasanovsky. You can thank the French for making Ukraine a popular usage word.

 

[kranshteun]

Tu dois etre une exception dans ce pays! Tu pouvais etre americain depuis le parler de l'anglais, n'est-ce pas? Guy, I speak four languages fluently so I must be French/English/Russian/Czech according to your logic. I must be part Chinese along with some Ukrainian too.



You must be Croat according to your surname, it is where Cravat came from. You think it is from Ukraine? Fine, stop spouting Pan-Ukranian bollocks and move on. I don't need Wiki when I have a nice volume of Slavic history here by Riasanovsky. You can thank the French for making Ukraine a popular usage word.

You know what is the difference between you and me? I try to seek the truth through communication and stating of my views, you are simply taking a side and pushing your agenda not knowing anything real about the countries you are talking about. I lived in those countries: Ukraine, Russia. Not everything is in the History book. You need to learn the culture, traditions, how people are in the present time.
Bottom line is: non of what I said here has any connection to Pan-Ukrainian nationalism. Second, your views are narrow and limited. Thirdly you have not answered any of my questions so your ignorance shows your ability.

 

[Armand2REP]

You know what is the difference between you and me? I try to seek the truth through communication and stating of my views, you are simply taking a side and pushing your agenda not knowing anything real about the countries you are talking about. I lived in those countries: Ukraine, Russia. Not everything is in the History book. You need to learn the culture, traditions, how people are in the present time.
Bottom line is: non of what I said here has any connection to Pan-Ukrainian nationalism. Second, your views are narrow and limited. Thirdly you have not answered any of my questions so your ignorance shows your ability.

Um... yeah. If you were seeking the truth through communication, you would listen to the truth I just spoke. Instead you just call me a brainwashed Russian. I have no agenda except reality. I couldn't care less about Slavic infighting. I studied Western and Eastern Slavic languages for years, lived their culture and worked among them... as an adult. I know what Slavs are about... past glory whether truth or fiction. The fiction is what needs to be cleaned.
Bottom line is: when you twist the facts to make Ukraine look more independent than it ever was, it is just nationalism talking. You see, I have no need to promote Russian or Polish positions, I am neither. I don't even have a position to defend Bhudda, I am unbiased on issues of Ukraine.

 

[shaka]

Some points:
> Gautam Buddha had a Saka origin. Now, I am not sure if Saka = Scythian. Anyway if both are related, it has to be shared roots(origin), so in that context one can say Buddha is related to Mr. Valery Bebik as well, all depends where you draw the line.
> North Indian castes such as jats are decendents of Saka people.
> Aryan word has different meanings to different people. If you say Aryan you have to describe in what context you are using it.
> Sanskrit has no real connection with middle eastern language (Arabic).
> There are so many races in India that for research/study purpose word "Indian" doesn't mean anything. Caste system has mostly prevented inter-breeding of different castes/races. NOTE: I am not discussing merits/demerits of caste system.

I thought Buddha believed things like caste and race were trivial in the grand scheme of existence.

Maybe Mr. Valery Bebik is just suffering from syndrome called "insecurity".