Britain no longer a naval power, fleet strength depleted

[Yusuf]

Reminded of Armand who said French Navy would kick Indian arse in Andamans.

 

[Neil]

Diego Garcia is under US control and good luck dealing with USN!

yusuf bhai....he meant what if US leaves the base....and UK decides to take charge of it...

@ L.T...::RN subs with nukes are the only thing that will deter us against any such adventure....just like whats deterring Argentina from capturing Falkland.

 

[Payeng]

Are not NATO nations treaty bound to protect each other if any external threat arise upon its members sovereign territory ?

 

[Armand2REP]

I don't recall France's naval capabilities being diminished. They only increase.

 

[Yusuf]

Are not NATO nations treaty bound to protect each other if any external threat arise upon its members sovereign territory ?

The whole presumption is flawed. All kinds of IFs. If the US leaves, If it does not help, then probably If NATO does not help. It's basically a dick measuring contest.

 

[Neil]

I don't recall France's naval capabilities being diminished. They only increase.

he is saying france is neutral...

common guys he is playing a 1:1 scenario against britain and India.... who would win per se...??!!

 

[Yusuf]

I don't recall France's naval capabilities being diminished. They only increase.

Off course. Hindi Frenchie Bhai Bhai I still think you are overestimating French capability in taking over Andamans that when India already has considerable military presence there.

 

[Armand2REP]

Off course. Hindi Frenchie Bhai Bhai I still think you are overestimating French capability in taking over Andamans that when India already has considerable military presence there.

The whole point was India didn't have a considerable presence on Car Nicobar to stop us and that the current forces at Port Blair were nothing but a target.

 

[LalTopi]

he is saying france is neutral...

common guys he is playing a 1:1 scenario against britain and India.... who would win per se...??!!

At a minimum, I would like the relative strengths compared of the two Navies 1:1. However, there is nothing to stop discussion of other players such as France, Russia, China. The main thing is the US must stay neutral - Unkil still rules the world - at least in 2016.

B.T.W, not sure of exact wording of the NATO treaty, but US did stay neutral in the Falklands (officially), despite Argentina having attacked Britain.

 

[LalTopi]

yusuf bhai....he meant what if US leaves the base....and UK decides to take charge of it...

@ L.T...::RN subs with nukes are the only thing that will deter us against any such adventure....just like whats deterring Argentina from capturing Falkland.

I think its the SSNs that will deter, but its a point for debate whether the SSBNs with Trident are a factor - I think not given that India may also have a nuclear strik back capability at that stage - but I would welcome DFI members views on that.

 

[Neil]

At a minimum, I would like the relative strengths compared of the two Navies 1:1. However, there is nothing to stop discussion of other players such as France, Russia, China. The main thing is the US must stay neutral - Unkil still rules the world - at least in 2016.

B.T.W, not sure of exact wording of the NATO treaty, but US did stay neutral in the Falklands (officially), despite Argentina having attacked Britain.

L.T u take any other member of NATO the tilt goes in britains favor....hands down...!!

and yeah it was quite uprising actualy that US wasnt helping its best friend in the worst time of hers....

 

[Neil]

I think its the SSNs that will deter, but its a point for debate whether the SSBNs with Trident are a factor - I think not given that India may also have a nuclear strik back capability at that stage - but I would welcome DFI members views on that.

true but the point of debate here is do u wanna go nuclear considering britains depleting fleet it is sure to use RN subs as basic deterrence....for small piece of land...?? quite debatable...

 

[LalTopi]

The whole point was India didn't have a considerable presence on Car Nicobar to stop us and that the current forces at Port Blair were nothing but a target.

The difference here is whether India can take over an island in the IOR, held by a depleted but still reasonably powerful adversary.

 

[LalTopi]

true but the point of debate here is do u wanna go nuclear considering britains depleting fleet it is sure to use RN subs as basic deterrence....for small piece of land...?? quite debatable...

The Nuclear subs were the main factor in keeping the Argentinian navy hiding in thir ports. But will it be the same in the IOR with India's navy - e.g. how vulnerable is the IN to the Astute class? think 2016 and strengh of IN then, e.g. with P8s.

 

[balai_c]

^^ India , unlike Argentina actually has nuclear submarine, hell we have ins nerpa, the Akula 2 class submarine.So, nuclear submarines wont really be the magic bullet, like they were in the Falkland war . Besides, India also has an extremely robust anti submarine warfare infrastructure. And,Indian navy right now, is far more potent and powerful than Argentinian navy ever was. Indian navy isn't exactly a pushover. So, the hypothetical scenario is not exactly as one sided as people make them to be.

 

[Armand2REP]

Can India take a garrisoned island that has air cover? If RAF stations a squadron of fighters on Diego, what can IAF bring? DG is 2000km from the nearest IAF airbase, so it requires tankers. There are 6 tankers and only a few that are operational at any time. Sortie generation is going to be a problem. If IN can get through that there is little question they can take the weak garrisons the British leave. France stations thousands while UK only hundreds.

Can India hold it from an RN counterattack? Really depends on if they left the air field intact. If the demolitions team destroys it then RAF can fly tanker sorties to battle with disparate IAF CAPs. A couple Type 45s escorting an invasion force with SSNs hunting for your fleet will make it hard to stop them landing Royal Marines. Good news is they can only land a battalion, 1800 troops on the best day. You would need a couple thousand defenders.

 

[Neil]

no one is saying Argentina navy can be comparable to ours....only thing is what will the basic deterrent factor of the scenario....as LT said britain will be a depleted force so in short defending the island is quite challenging for britain...what other options does britain has...?? nuclear....!!

yeah u can hunt down subs...but astute doesnt has to be close to indian ocean to nuke us....their missile range makes it flexible enough for their subs to be placed very far from hot spots...so its quite a daunting task for IN to actually find and destroy...and destroying a nuke sub has its own follout...!!

 

[Payeng]

Can India take a garrisoned island that has air cover? If RAF stations a squadron of fighters on Diego, what can IAF bring? DG is 2000km from the nearest IAF airbase, so it requires tankers. There are 6 tankers and only a few that are operational at any time. Sortie generation is going to be a problem. If IN can get through that there is little question they can take the weak garrisons the British leave. France stations thousands while UK only hundreds.

Can India hold it from an RN counterattack? Really depends on if they left the air field intact. If the demolitions team destroys it then RAF can fly tanker sorties to battle with disparate IAF CAPs. A couple Type 45s escorting an invasion force with SSNs hunting for your fleet will make it hard to stop them landing Royal Marines. Good news is they can only land a battalion, 1800 troops on the best day. You would need a couple thousand defenders.

How about the long range Sukhoi's supported by Mid air refuels, An-32's for dropping Para troopers?

 

[Payeng]

At least MARCOS should be able to perform sabotage missions.

 

[Armand2REP]

How about the long range Sukhoi's supported by Mid air refuels, An-32's for dropping Para troopers?

If RAF has a squadron of Typhoons guarding the island, would a handful of Flankers be enough? You have to get through that before you start dropping paras.