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Which agreements have we circumvented or ignored ??? Care to backup with facts ???How strictly are these laws enforced? It seems that neither Indian nor Chinese are trying to oblige by them.
Which agreements have we circumvented or ignored ??? Care to backup with facts ???How strictly are these laws enforced? It seems that neither Indian nor Chinese are trying to oblige by them.
My reiteration stands-- you're damn right we "don't f*ck around" with our dam construction. Were we to, we would not have had in excess of 4000 dams constructed by the year 2000, with several more under construction. Nor would we have been declared the third-highest dam constructing country in the world, surpassed only by the United States and far more marginally by China. At the dawn of our independence, our first Prime Minister, Pdt. Jawaharlal Nehru declared that "dams would be the temples of modern India". And that is one respect where there has been no dichotomy between word and action.Is this just speculation on your part that India has fast-tracked dam construction? Do you have sources? I just don't think your reiterations about not "f*cking" around is enough.
I really wonder at your "intelligence". The article you quote to me is a blog- yes, and this time there is genuine need to be concerned at its being so- for the title of the entry is an invention of the blogger himself, with NO MENTION of 2009 being scheduled as a "start date for China" anywhere either in his introductory paragraphs or in the indiapost article which the entry itself quotes - and uses as basis for its argument. The only mention of "2009 as a scheduled start date for China" is in the response article quoted by "maryse".As for the sources that have 2009 as a start date for China:
Tsanpo Brahmaputra river diversion project scheduled for 2009 - EcoPaparazzi
Your article is from April 1, 2009. You expect to tell me that the funds were allocated, the project executed -- and completed: an entire highway built in the spate of a few months "to facilitate the Tsangpo diversion project", and construction on the latter- the world's largest theoretical dam - having concomitantly commenced between April 2009 and now? Again, you are not dealing with your brainwashed countrymen.Interestingly, "The Chinese media has been making references to a huge budget allocation for a new road in Tibet, the Bomi-Medog highway, linking the lower Tsangpo valley with Tibet’s main east-west highway. The allocation is astounding considering Medog’s sparse population, and Indian officials suspect the road is meant to facilitate the Tsangpo diversion project."
The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | Dam shield against China river threat
"The Brahmaputra, before it enters Assam, passes through Arunachal Pradesh, and several tributaries crisscross the state. There have been concerns in New Delhi about Beijing's plans to divert the waters of the Brahmaputra to feed its drought-prone provinces of Xinjiang and Gansu, with reports of elaborate plans being drawn up for an ambitious project titled "South-North Water Diversion." China realizes that the issue of water and energy security would lead to grave social and political consequences."
"Interestingly, the Tibetans consider the 'Great Bend" region near the Indian border very sacred, it being the abode of the Goddess Dorjee Pagmo, Tibet's protecting deity, with the region locally known as Pemako being referred in their scriptures as the last hidden Shangri-la.
The project therefore would not only trouble India, but will also evoke unrest among the Tibetan population."
"China plans to use nuclear technology in its ambitious project, which could lead to environmental concerns in the Eastern Himalayan region."
Evidence of that assertion follows from the response article:
The Chinese Academy of Engineering Physics asserts "we can certainly accomplish this project with nuclear explosives."
"Owing to the extremely active geodynamic condition of the terrain, characterized by frequent earthquakes, even a slight interference with the ecological-geological balance can initiate an enormous environmental change. It is in this set-up that a giant dam, expected to be the biggest plant ever made in the world, is to be constructed near the Namcha Barwa by the Chinese, within a few years."
"Further, this whole region would be starved of nutrient-rich sediments that enrich the soil, but which would be held up in the reservoir instead of reaching the downstream GBM delta."
"Further, if the Tsangpo project is implemented a large part of the RLP of India would become redundant, and perhaps the most serious environmental disaster could ensue as this area is located in a highly active earthquake prone zone where breaching of the dam could cause devastating floods both in China and Indo - Bangladesh."
"However, Chinese scientists hold that this dam would alleviate floods and erosion in the Brahmaputra. But this makes little sense, since flooding could actually get worse due to relentless silting which, will be accelerated by the slowing down (reduced velocity) of the river flow."
"Bangladesh would be affected very badly because its agriculture and inland water transportation are very much dependent upon the sustainable flow of the Brahmaputra. Bangladesh has reasons to be concerned about the Chinese design about the Tsangpo."
"In view of the above, there are still options for a solution by the concerned countries by taking the matter to the negotiating table. If a river water treaty could be signed between India and Pakistan despite their hostile relationship, in the early 1960s, a similar agreement can be negotiated between China, India and Bangladesh in order to ensure an environment friendly solution as well as sustainable futuristic regional development of the co-riparian countries."
You have now jumped into the realm of utter vagueness and idiosyncracy. Don't get technical with me- you will fall flat on your face and break it. The "articles I posted" have everything to do with my claim of India having "fast-tracked" prior dams (to paraphrase my own words in post #52 of this thread : "Notwithstanding that, we have fast-tracked dam construction in the past". That is the only claim I made, and it has been thoroughly corroborated. The relevance to this (one-sided) debate?: that we have the ability to put dams on the fast-track to effect a pre-emption clause if we need to. And particularly, if the hypothetical dam in contention is allegedly the "biggest dam in the world", and will not be constructed in a fortnight. Information as to the actual, present status of the two dams of the Siang project can be established, if it is not deemed sensitive, via a written RFI directed to the central government, a proposal I might have considered if you had not pissed me off by your chronic, incessant lying. Of the information most easily accessible on the world wide web however, this (the Last Descent Project) is the latest we know.Ok. The minister said that the Dam will be built but they will not divert the water.
Also, the articles you posed do not have to do with the Brahmaputra. I was referring if the dam for the Brahmaputra was being put on the "fast track." Plus the scale of the dams you have in your article are not sufficient to dam the entire river.
but still they are the best option for secular India.Pakistan only barks nuke,they can never bite with one. when they bark we carry on our work with our dams which makes them look awfull globally,which results in reports questioning security offered to pak nukes etc. this are incredible foreign policies,which helps gain more ground than hard talks.I think you missed the election results. We have Congress in power. :blum3:
The only thing our government will do is..... nothing. Absolutely nothing. Probably go cry to US about such bully talk, but that's just Congress being Congress (unless they want to initiate some quotas, then they grow some balls).
So, our entire policy is based on the assumption that paks are bluffing about nukes. Just in case, if they dare to carry out what they threaten, what will India do? What is India doing to prevent such a MAD scenario?but still they are the best option for secular India.Pakistan only barks nuke,they can never bite with one. when they bark we carry on our work with our dams which makes them look awfull globally,which results in reports questioning security offered to pak nukes etc. this are incredible foreign policies,which helps gain more ground than hard talks.
Matching Pakistani Gungho rhetoric with our own wont make for a better policy.If i were a Pakistani i wouldn't be exactly thrilled to drink water contaminated with radiation,The hypothetical nuking of the the dam is more likely to reduce Pakistan to a nation of crippled lepers than any hypothetical storage dam with a turn off tap.So, our entire policy is based on the assumption that paks are bluffing about nukes. Just in case, if they dare to carry out what they threaten, what will India do? What is India doing to prevent such a MAD scenario?
The fact is we are living ram-bharose........Our entire policy vis-a-vis Pak is BS.
All your points are right, SATA. We dont have to match the 'Gungho rhetoric', but what exactly is our plan of action? Our respected PM has been dropping hints that 'peace talks' are a way ahead....Matching Pakistani Gungho rhetoric with our own wont make for a better policy.If i were a Pakistani i wouldn't be exactly thrilled to drink water contaminated with radiation,The hypothetical nuking of the the dam is more likely to reduce Pakistan to a nation of crippled lepers than any hypothetical storage dam with a turn off tap.
The jang group and Pakistan Observer are some of the most ribald hate spewing mainstream media outlets in Pakistan,any rhetoric coming from them must be treated with due deference
These attacks keep happenning after sometime. 26/11 happened after Parliament attacks. Now Hafiz Saeed, the Mumbi mastermind is a free terrorist. What did our great GoI do, except whining?i can assure you another mumbai attack would bring hell on pak.
Oh god, not this...look johnee,a sane nation would never dare to nuke another nuclear nation.And i can assure you another mumbai attack would bring hell on pak..And in this issue,pk's continuous threat to nuke india, is booming its image as a insecure nuclear nation globally,which is indeed a big win for us....And who do we have other than the congress?? bjp?? they wd break up our country before doin any thing to pak...Though Lefts are a good option
Jako,look johnee,a sane nation would never dare to nuke another nuclear nation.And i can assure you another mumbai attack would bring hell on pak..And in this issue,pk's continuous threat to nuke india, is booming its image as a insecure nuclear nation globally,which is indeed a big win for us....And who do we have other than the congress?? bjp?? they wd break up our country before doin any thing to pak...Though Lefts are a good option
The only working principle behind a Nuclear deterrence is,only the threat of using a nuclear weapon, deters the threat of using a nuclear weapon.Unless we have an ABM system so perfect to deter all hostile intrusion into our aerospace,this will be case.All your points are right, SATA. We dont have to match the 'Gungho rhetoric', but what exactly is our plan of action? Our respected PM has been dropping hints that 'peace talks' are a way ahead....
Wouldnt that be a capitulation to the nuke/terror threat by Pak? Pak has done absolutely nothing to show that they have severed their links with terrorists, there is a legitimate fear that another attack replicating 26/11 may happen. Has Pak given any assurance to India that such a thing wont happen from their land?
We(and that includes our Govt) has been assuming that Nuke threats are simply bluff. Yet, when the crunch time comes, we(our Govt) hesitates to take any action becoz their nukes are a deterrent! During Kargil and post 26/11, India did nothing and mostly the perception is that the nuke threat was the game-breaker. So, shouldnt India have a clear policy in this regard?
If GOI believes that paks are simply bluffing about the nukes, then we can simply ignore nuke threats and shouldnt let them act as a deterrent when we wish to carry out any military action against them as a retaliation.
If GOI believes that Pak Nukes are indeed a threat and are not bluff, then we should have some better policy to defang them or atleast take them out of equation.
But all that we have done till now is, that we have depended on US to goad Pak to take action against terrorists. Will such a policy work?
Ah,dont be that angry at me buddy!!! i have nothing against you or bjp,but how much better can a secular india get with bjp's 'ram rajya' bullshit???? they stopped projects in name of ram setu,we saw agodhra under bjp,a gujrat riot we saw,isn't that enough??? this communal riots gave pak some strategic highs,for which they are being able to raise kash again and again.........remember this-no nuclear nation wd nuke another,in this case india's already one step ahead with no first use policy.....Oh god, not this...
So where exactly was this "global" support before 26/11, where, FYI, more press and "support" came after every other country made sure that most victims were indeed foreigners?
Is your Congress going to save you when most people working near border are soon replaced thanks to a new quota system? Also, I DO wonder why most of the monuments in Delhi are still intact.. if the BJP you hate was so hell bent on breaking up the country (considering the only thing mughal's were good at was killing millions of Hindus who refused to convert).
Are you saying that the same Congress that comes to power based on quotas, further dividing the community, intentionally setting up a dalit speaker to counter Mayawati or setting up a tool like Pratibha Patil as president over someone like Abdul Kalam (who probably was the best president we have ever had but was also against supporting what government was doing most of the time) to control every decision sent to president... the same Congress is a saviour over BJP?
Stop living in your dream world. Congress ain't doing shit and Pakistan will probably nuke your home first. I sure do hope there will be global condemnation afterwards.. :Laie_39:
Yaar,Ah,dont be that angry at me buddy!!! i have nothing against you or bjp,but how much better can a secular india get with bjp's 'ram rajya' bullshit???? they stopped projects in name of ram setu,we saw agodhra under bjp,a gujrat riot we saw,isn't that enough??? this communal riots gave pak some strategic highs,for which they are being able to raise kash again and again.........remember this-no nuclear nation wd nuke another,in this case india's already one step ahead with no first use policy.....
I think you are right. This has to be answered and done at some time. Time to be much more proactive and not be repeatedly called a soft state.Tarey muh meh ghee shakarr brother, :2guns:lets stop all the water flowing into Pakistan.....& then just wait for them to make a dumb move. We need to finish this once and far all. this time.:2guns:
yes you are right,secularism always doesn't mean appeasing the minorities,but look at the following flow of things-----1-babri masjid brought down,2-gujrat riots,3-pak brings up muslim discrimination and kash,4-bjp talks of ram rajya,5-bjp talks of bringing up ram mandir at the place of babri,6-pak once again wd get a chance to bring back those issues if bjp was elected,thankfully they are not.,what does thease suggest????.............................bout environmental problems due to the project--------this things sd be brougt upon by proffesionals,not the vishya hindu parishad,if asked this people won't be able to utter a word more,clearly they lack proper and complete knowledge on the issue................hindus in india don't have to give up their religion,they just have to be more clear minded bout where to bring in religion.btw,i still support india's stand on our nukes,atleast we dont have reports coming out every day questioning security and prolification,we had to show the world ,we have nukes ,and we did that in 1998,thats enough:bye.....thnx:mornin:Yaar,
'Ram Rajya is BS' according to you, 'ram sethu' is also a BS' according to you, but you want the nation to be secular!!!?? Does being secular only mean appeasing minorities(specifically Muslims and Christians)? Does the same yard-stick not apply to the religious sentiments of Hindus(however extremist they might be in your view)?
Sorry, but I didnt understand your point properly, are you saying that the Hindus in India have to give up their religion to be secular? Does being secular mean that being 'peaceful' while heritage sites(that have religious importance to majorities) are proposed to being ravaged in the name of 'development'. Ram Sethu is prohibitively expensive, and will lead to great natural disasters beside it being a site that some(if not many) hold in reverence. As for communal riots, tell me buddy, why do ppl behave as if riots happened for the first time in India in Gujarat 2002? ppl talk about Gujarat and Modi as if riots(with religious overtones) were unheard of before 2002.......
1984 sikh riots(during Congress rule) are (in)famous, but they are not the only one prior to Gujarat. There is also Bhagalpur riots(allegedly incited by Congress). I live in Hyd, and we used to witness many riots during Congress regime. Most of the time, politicians have direct or indirect hand in riots. Why single out BJP?
Lastly, we hold no upper ground with our 'no-first-use' policy. It is just BS. World knows its BS. No one cares for such BS. Nukes are kept as a deterrence, and the deterrence works only when the other party is worried that the nukes can be used(even pre-emptively). Till now, our nukes have not fetched us any advantages in our foreign policy vis-a-vis Pak. But Pak has used its nuke deterrence well against India. India would have certainly carried our retaliatory attacks against Pak post 26/11 if Pak didnt have nukes. And Pak knows that. The world knows that. We didnt show restraint. We just blinked first, and Pak won the mental battle.
The same situation will arise if 26/11 is replicated. India would again be facing the same question: 'are you ready to call the bluff(if you believe it is bluff) of Pak's nukes?' or ' Try to take nukes of Pak out of equation'.
What??Pre-emption doesn't apply if you're daming just a small tributary that does not cross international borders.