Bolivia declares Israel a terrorist state

[Energon]

wow, talk about serious thread derailment.

 

[Neo]

wow, talk about serious thread derailment.

That was my whole point in the first place.

 

[Ray]

Gay as in happy? Then yes, I am a very happy person and I count my blessings every day

Btw, did you not see the 'in retaliation' part of my comment?

Retaliation can be on imagined slights or through a deep sense of insecurity aggravated by an identity crisis.

Check this out

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/pakistan/62643-pakistani.html#post929653

Must I say more?

 

[Neo]

Retaliation can be on imagined slights or through a deep sense of insecurity aggravated by an identity crisis.

Check this out

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/pakistan/62643-pakistani.html#post929653

Must I say more?

At least we have guts to take and absorb critic from home ground without marking them commies or traitors.

Must I say more?

 

[Ray]

At least we have guts to take and absorb critic from home ground without marking them commies or traitors.

Must I say more?

Well, Cesar Chavez, the American farm worker, labour leader and civil rights activist, who, with Dolores Huerta, co-founded the National Farm Workers Association (later the United Farm Workers union, UFW) said this:

We draw our strength from the very despair in which we have been forced to live. We shall endure.

Pakistan and Pakistanis are drawing strength from the very despair they are forced to live with.

Hopefully, they shall endure.

I hope you have read what the Pak Colonel write in the Pakistani Express Tribune.

Or are you being Quickgun Murugun?

Of course you have the guts to be killed daily by your own brothers who claim to be the defenders of Islam.

Read the Colonel's article.

Here it is for you again.

1) According to mainstream Islamic Scholars, the Punishment of Apostasy (Irtadad – reversion to Kufr from Islam) is death. Since every other sect of Islam considers the other as Kafir, that means every Pakistani citizen would be liable to be killed in the eyes of the other Pakistani. In Pakistan, only 7% of Muslims believe Ahmadis to be Muslims, and surprisingly only 50% believe Shias to be Muslims. Therefore, all other people think that these sects are doing Kufar, and their punishment would be death under the Shariah Law.

2) Under the Shariah Law, the punishment for theft is the severing of the hand. In Pakistan, only 0.9% of the population pays taxes, which indirectly means that 99.1% of them are tax evaders in one way or the other, and since tax evasion is a form of theft against the government, Pakistan should get ready to chop the hands of 99.1% of the population.

3) According to the chief of Jamat-e-Islami and a large percentage of Muslims, the only way a raped woman can convict her rapist(s) is by producing 4 eye witnesses who actually witnessed the crime. Thus, when Shariah would be imposed in Pakistan, unless a woman would have 4 witnesses which is probably only possible if she gets raped in a market, else she should remain quiet. Or, she herself would be stoned to death for making the confession.

4) Since the punishment of blasphemy of the Prophet (S.A.W) is death according to mainstream Islam, and apart from 1.4 Billion Muslims, all other 5.6 Billion humans consider the Prophet as (Tauba Naoozobillah) untruthful and wrong, (or else, if they take him (SAW) to be true it would be tantamount to their saying Ashhado anna Mohammad ur Rasoolillah and thus accept Islam), therefore, it would be obligatory upon us to wipe out all such blasphemous Non-Muslims from the face of the Earth. What greater blasphemy could there be than considering the Prophet as a (Tauba Naoozobillah) liar?

Which Islam is the question.

 

[Neo]

And then there was Islam...
What took you so long?

 

[Ray]

And then there was Islam...
What took you so long?

Because I allowed you the belay to crow 'I Slam for Islam'.

And then there was the chaos and mayhem in the Land of the Pure and Ostriches.

1) According to mainstream Islamic Scholars, the Punishment of Apostasy (Irtadad – reversion to Kufr from Islam) is death. Since every other sect of Islam considers the other as Kafir, that means every Pakistani citizen would be liable to be killed in the eyes of the other Pakistani. In Pakistan, only 7% of Muslims believe Ahmadis to be Muslims, and surprisingly only 50% believe Shias to be Muslims. Therefore, all other people think that these sects are doing Kufar, and their punishment would be death under the Shariah Law.

2) Under the Shariah Law, the punishment for theft is the severing of the hand. In Pakistan, only 0.9% of the population pays taxes, which indirectly means that 99.1% of them are tax evaders in one way or the other, and since tax evasion is a form of theft against the government, Pakistan should get ready to chop the hands of 99.1% of the population.

3) According to the chief of Jamat-e-Islami and a large percentage of Muslims, the only way a raped woman can convict her rapist(s) is by producing 4 eye witnesses who actually witnessed the crime. Thus, when Shariah would be imposed in Pakistan, unless a woman would have 4 witnesses which is probably only possible if she gets raped in a market, else she should remain quiet. Or, she herself would be stoned to death for making the confession.

4) Since the punishment of blasphemy of the Prophet (S.A.W) is death according to mainstream Islam, and apart from 1.4 Billion Muslims, all other 5.6 Billion humans consider the Prophet as (Tauba Naoozobillah) untruthful and wrong, (or else, if they take him (SAW) to be true it would be tantamount to their saying Ashhado anna Mohammad ur Rasoolillah and thus accept Islam), therefore, it would be obligatory upon us to wipe out all such blasphemous Non-Muslims from the face of the Earth. What greater blasphemy could there be than considering the Prophet as a (Tauba Naoozobillah) liar?

By the way, this has nothing to do with Islam. It is to do with Islam as imagined by the Pakistanis.

 

[rock127]

After Brasil the second South American country to take stance against the ongoing genocide of Palestinians by Israel.

Answer this... seems like even your closest and most important Islamic countries the "Ummah" is supporting Israel.

Arab states support Israel against Hamas: NYT

"I have never seen a situation like it, where you have so many Arab states acquiescing in the death and destruction in Gaza and the pummelling of Hamas," he said.

Arab Leaders, Viewing Hamas as Worse Than Israel, Stay Silent

After the military ouster of the Islamist government in Cairo last year, Egypt has led a new coalition of Arab states — including Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates — that has effectively lined up with Israel in its fight against Hamas, the Islamist movement that controls the Gaza Strip. Egypt and other Arab states, especially the Persian Gulf monarchies of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, are finding themselves allied with Israel in a common opposition to Iran, a rival regional power that has a history of funding and arming Hamas.

 

[Ray]

Answer this... seems like even your closest and most important Islamic countries the "Ummah" is supporting Israel.

Arab states support Israel against Hamas: NYT


Arab Leaders, Viewing Hamas as Worse Than Israel, Stay Silent

They have been mauled repeatedly.

They cannot taken a chance. In the chaos they might get obliterated.

They want others to fight for them.

 

[Energon]

This is very sad to see; and it leads back to my earlier assertion which I made to @Known_Unknown and @Neo that the Palestinian people have no agency whatsoever. The Arabs distance themselves from Hamas not because the latter is directly responsible for the plight of the Palestinian people but because the Arabs fear of catching the terrorism contagion. If the Arabs were truly interested in the well being of Palestinians they would use their influence to dismantle the militant wing of Hamas and aggressively sue for peace and a workable two state solution.

 

[thethinker]

The Arabs distance themselves from Hamas not because the latter is directly responsible for the plight of the Palestinian people but because the Arabs fear of catching the terrorism contagion. If the Arabs were truly interested in the well being of Palestinians they would use their influence to dismantle the militant wing of Hamas and aggressively sue for peace and a workable two state solution.

Another bullshit liberal fantasy. Guess those petro dollars come on own for promoting terrorism and building radicalization centers. Arabs as per you don't support terrorism after all.

 

[Energon]

Another bullshit liberal fantasy. Guess those petro dollars come on own for promoting terrorism and building radicalization centers. Arabs as per you don't support terrorism after all.

Seriously... wtf are you talking about? How can you possibly come up with responses that have absolutely no relevance to the topic at hand?

 

[thethinker]

Seriously... wtf are you talking about? How can you possibly come up with responses that have absolutely no relevance to the topic at hand?

So much disconnect! When I don't quote you mention lack of context. When I do quote - you claim no relevance.
More specifically this claim of yours "The Arabs distance themselves from Hamas not because the latter is directly responsible for the plight of the Palestinian people but because the Arabs fear of catching the terrorism contagion."

Are you implying that Arabs never get involved in terrorism? Also are you implying that they always distance themselves from terrorism of any shape or form?

 

[Energon]

So much disconnect! When I don't quote you mention lack of context. When I do quote - you claim no relevance.
More specifically this claim of yours "The Arabs distance themselves from Hamas not because the latter is directly responsible for the plight of the Palestinian people but because the Arabs fear of catching the terrorism contagion."

Are you implying that Arabs never get involved in terrorism? Also are you implying that they always distance themselves from terrorism of any shape or form?

Quoting me is of no real consequence. It's all about the composition of your response. Your question is how can I say the Arabs are wary of the "terror contagion" when they themselves fund it? This is a good question, but it has nothing to do with "liberal fantasies" or much of what you wrote in your post.

To answer your questions...
Are you implying that Arabs never get involved in terrorism- Absolutely Not. They're the main benefactors of terrorism... as long as it's to be exported elsewhere
Also are you implying that they always distance themselves from terrorism of any shape or form- Most certainly, when it comes to their own backyard.

Egypt and Saudi Arabia in the 80s started contemplating a policy vis a vis Jihad which essentially stipulated that terrorism should be supported as long as it's elsewhere and not within their own borders. The Saudi's embarked upon their successful export policy where domestic nut jobs were shipped off to Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and other parts of North Africa as part of oil/cash subsidies. Egypt on the other hand sealed their border with Gaza and cracked down upon the brotherhood from within. Also, the oil rich Gulf States have a very strict policy against allowing Palestinian refugees into their countries because they do not want their own people to consort with a disgruntled lot.

The Arabs could use their influence to broker a peace deal of some sort, but that would mean dealing directly with Hamas. This is something they will not do.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

@Energon


You are assuming Saudi Arabia makes decisions independently, which is only
True to a point . In regard to religion it may be true but their foreign policy decisions
Are not .

 

[thethinker]

Quoting me is of no real consequence. It's all about the composition of your response. Your question is how can I say the Arabs are wary of the "terror contagion" when they themselves fund it? This is a good question, but it has nothing to do with "liberal fantasies" or much of what you wrote in your post.

To answer your questions...
Are you implying that Arabs never get involved in terrorism- Absolutely Not. They're the main benefactors of terrorism... as long as it's to be exported elsewhere
Also are you implying that they always distance themselves from terrorism of any shape or form- Most certainly, when it comes to their own backyard.

Egypt and Saudi Arabia in the 80s started contemplating a policy vis a vis Jihad which essentially stipulated that terrorism should be supported as long as it's elsewhere and not within their own borders. The Saudi's embarked upon their successful export policy where domestic nut jobs were shipped off to Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and other parts of North Africa as part of oil/cash subsidies. Egypt on the other hand sealed their border with Gaza and cracked down upon the brotherhood from within. Also, the oil rich Gulf States have a very strict policy against allowing Palestinian refugees into their countries because they do not want their own people to consort with a disgruntled lot.

The Arabs could use their influence to broker a peace deal of some sort, but that would mean dealing directly with Hamas. This is something they will not do.

Agree regarding the choice of words, was looking for pro-Arab rather than liberal fantasies which does sound a bit harsh.

Radicalization as a political weapon by Arabs has been going on for decades with their direct involvement in all nations without doing the same in their own backyard. The recent Syria crisis and more recent ISIS emergence is a rather interesting phenomenon.

You might want to look at Wikileaks documents that trace the Arab support for all things "jihad" :

WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists | World news | The Guardian

 

[Energon]

@Energon


You are assuming Saudi Arabia makes decisions independently, which is only
True to a point . In regard to religion it may be true but their foreign policy decisions
Are not .

Saudi Arabia has been highly independent when it comes to their dealings with Islamic extremist groups. Well, actually they also serve as the spokespersons for their smaller oil rich neighbors like Kuwait, UAE and Bahrain (and up until recently Qatar); but all in all most deals are struck directly through their intelligence agency (the GID) without much interference from anyone else.
The most significant development as of late however is Qatar's role in militant Islamism. Qatar has/is trying to come out from under Saudi's wing to strike out on its own. Currently Qatar is the main supporters of Hamas and also serves as a broker between the US and the Afghan Taliban. (I have very little doubt that one day all of this is going to blow right back on the Qataris, because they aren't nearly as clever as they think they are)

The recent Syria crisis and more recent ISIS emergence is a rather interesting phenomenon.

Yes, ISIS is interesting in that this is the first "successful experiment" as far as the Saudis and their allies are concerned. The Arabs have long been working on perfecting their plan to construct the perfect jihadist force after conducting careful postmortems on the likes of the Taliban and the TTP. In the past they empowered tribesmen in hell holes like the hinterlands of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Eritrea, Yemen etc. these guys eventually turned out to be too dumb/crazy to control and went on self propelled rampages. But in ISIS they now have a ruthless Sunni political organization that I suspect is manned by fairly sophisticated operators who in turn seem to attract educated young people from all over the world (including the West and India). Unlike the Taliban, ISIS is clearly well prepared to effectively administer the areas they conquer. They know precisely what assets to seize (oil wells, dams, key roads, strategically located towns etc.); but more importantly, they how to manage these assets once they're seized. Furthermore it is also interesting to note how they have co opted women into enforcing their mandates. I don't think anything ISIS does is by happenstance; all their moves are carefully choreographed and monitored

Having said all that it doesn't a rocket scientist to figure out that this too is bound to end up in disaster much like all their prior experiments in Pakistan, Somalia, Algeria and Lybia.

 

[Energon]

Speaking of the devil (quite literally in this case)

 

[Compersion]

I am getting a strong sense that there is a pro Israel psy op and assistance from india recently especially by way of media one can see below:

'India's Kashmir experience can be a model for Israel in Gaza' - The Times of India

There was also a item where indian media saw rocket launch from Hamas. I believe this not to be by chance, and india is helping Israel and it is well thought policy,

Also

Before elections there was a huge controversy over a psy ops done by a financial magazine on modi that was tilted and bias and seemed to display that it was done from someone that opposed modi from within india,

The composers and elders of two groups (india is one) is aligning to principles that perform and consider important principles that include unity, integrity, and entrepreneurship. One knows the other groups has a pro India centric focus because of belief on rule of law, democracy, and opportunity.

Whoever advised and made the article to the publisher must be viewed in strict adherence to the current position(s) towards and from india that are based on principle. the anti modi group within india are not and did not have such display and performance. Was that bad advice - was it purposeful dispute creation. Either way it deserves to have balance. The recent events and alignments are allowing for a system to evolve that will make such a relationship even stronger and might create discomfiture for the party and parties that made one go away from principles of integrity that is being cleverly placed together for everyone.