Boeing in Favor of Made-in-India F18S for IAF

brational

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
1,223
Likes
2,644
Country flag
US ToT is like mobile games. Looks good before one downloads them, once you start playing you will come across level locks. You need to fulfill particular conditions to unlock each level. Few levels are easy to unlock but once you get involved in it you will end up buying unlocking keys and even find some levels are not possible to unlock at all without giving access permission to your sensitive info i.e. compromising privacy.

Again, it is a good offer from USA's end, We need to read the TnC thoroughly before grabbing it.
 

Chinmoy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
8,678
Likes
22,545
Country flag
With due respect to all the posters here, I would say that its quiet encouraging for Indian aviation industry as a whole is Boeing does something like that. Boeing is not only a name in weapon industry but we all know what it is in overall aviation field. So its a good news for the domestic industry to cooperate and learn here.

But the point is leave alone ToT and 'Make in India'. We should rather look into 'Let India Make'. With the license to assemble MKI's in India and the experience gathered with Tejas along with making of some major components domestically we are somewhere there as far as knowledge regarding composites and body structure is concerned. But its some vital tecs where we are lacking awfully behind and yet to catch up. One being that of a jet engine.

So in my opinion we should avail this situation to our full potential and help us enrich ourselves. Govt should ink out deals with GE and P&W for something like this.
 

A chauhan

"अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l"
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
9,507
Likes
22,493
Country flag
The main purpose of MMRCA was technology evaluation, ToT and convincing bargaining hence a big 126 order. Super Hornet was mainly rejected because of ToT problems and level locks as @brational pointed out. US ambassador's leaked message also confirms the same. So what has changed now ? except govt in India nothing has changed, US is still an unreliable defense supplier. So I am skeptic towards it.
 

salute

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
2,174
Likes
1,094
The country who is happy to assist in making of all new aircraft carrier for Indian Navy (without any kind of restrictions) , the same country can also help to make aircrafts for that carrier (without any kind of restrictions) .
usa is not making entire aircraft carrier for india,

india know how to make an aircraft carrier,

usa is giving emals tech for indian aircraft carrier.
 

sabari

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
303
Likes
85
If USA is ready to make f18 production line in India which include ge 414 engines casting ,heat treatment , assembly,tuning of engine,etc then India might consider .but its not possible so we don't need assembly line of bowing,we all ready hal assembly line
 

archie

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
535
Likes
365
Country flag
Probably a bid to get both air force and Navy interested F/A 18 Super Hornet is EMALS certified is it not?

Wondering how different is both the models
 

charlie

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
1,150
Likes
1,245
Country flag
There are just too many defence contractor involved in an platform like F18. So Boeing in a system Intergrator they don't own all the tech that goes in it.

Even the company I work for supplies spares and does repairs on some parts of F18, there are many suppliers who will never share their tech with any company or even with their clients or then forget about countries who are not part of Five eyes.

F18 can only be assembled in India, it cannot be manufactured as far as my opinion.

Off topic- I was doing quaterly training of Restrictive Trade Practices and came to know about Boycotts.

It seems there is a thing called Arab League Boycott where they boycott things that have component from Israel.

US dose not support any kind of illegal boycott and strongly oppose it but still it depends, you know

but the interesting thing is even Pakistan boycott indian or Israel components

For e.g. "the goods for this project may not been source from India or Israel."
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
26,920
Likes
98,472
Country flag
Only good thing and productive thing I got from the article is

"“They have listened to people like us, and made some improvements. There is a dialogue. There never used to be dialogue, there used to be take-it-or-leave-it.”"

Why should India manufacture something which most squadrons around the world is Phasing out and is opting for new relevant ones?
on the ToT end...is there something new from this which Indian can adapt to its ongoing fighter programs?


Its NO love for India.but a maneuver.
Today there are increasing fears that the F/A-18 Super Hornet assembly line may be shut down because of dwindling orders, as the Navy prepares for a new generation of warplane -- the controversial F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

The new radar-evading jet is scheduled to be the F/A-18's eventual successor when it becomes operational in 2019. It's only about halfway through its development plan and has been plagued by billions of dollars' worth of cost overruns. There has also been a string of technical problems, including a redesign of its arresting hook, which is essential to landing on a carrier deck.

Now the Obama administration must decide by March 4 -- when its fiscal 2015 budget request is sent to Congress -- whether it wants any more F/A-18s. Then it will be up to Congress whether to go along.


f political maneuvering and a fresh sales pitch don't work, the El Segundo assembly line could join dozens of other airplane manufacturing plants that have had to close their doors.

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/22/business/la-fi-hornet-fighter-future-20140222
.
Hornets are currently flown by the US Marine Corps as their front-line fighter, by the US Navy as a second-tier fighter behind its larger F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets, and by 7 international customers: Australia, Canada, Finland, Kuwait, Malaysia, Spain, and Switzerland. The USA’s aircraft were expected to have a service life of 20 years, but that was based on 100 carrier landings per year. The US Navy and Marines have been rather busy during the Hornets’ service life, and so the planes are wearing out faster.

This is forcing the USA to take a number of steps in order to keep their Hornets airworthy: replacing center barrel sections, re-opening production lines, and more. Some of these efforts will also be offered to allied air forces, who have their own refurbishment and upgrade programs.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f18-hornet-fleets-keeping-em-flying-02816/
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
26,920
Likes
98,472
Country flag
What Are Boeing’s Prospects for the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet in Asia?

As the Diplomat has noted recently, the Asia-Pacific has become an important market for modern military aircraft. Companies from countries such as France, Sweden, Russia, and China have been attempting to sell their platforms to a range of states in the region (see here and here for Beijing’s Asian aircraft bids). Several states, including Indonesia, Malaysia and India, are either planning to or are in the process of acquiring modern fighter jets.

U.S. companies have a long and established position in this market. This has partially been for political purposes. During the Cold War, many states bought American kit out of necessity as much as quality, as there were few other acceptable sellers available (the French company Dassault being an important exception).

U.S. companies are still among the top suppliers of Asian air forces. Today, however, economic considerations are becoming increasingly important and U.S hardware is often prohibitively expensive. As such, it is possible to identify two broad categories of military combat aircraft: cutting edge, “fifth generation” aircraft, and conventional “fourth generation” platforms.

In the first category, the U.S. still holds an important advantage. Lockheed-Martin’s controversial F-35 Joint Strike Fighter has attracted both confirmed and potential buyers in the Pacific, such as Australia, Singapore, Japan, and South Korea. (Although the latter two are developing their own, indigenously-designed fifth generation birds, the Mitsubishi ATD-X Shinshin and the Korea Aerospace Industries’ KF-X.)

In the second category, U.S. models are facing a more level playing field. Modern Russian jets such as the Sukhoi Su-35, so-called “Eurocanards” represented by the Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen, and Dassault Rafale, and even the joint Sino-Pakistani JF-17 Thunder, represent tough competition for U.S. fighters.


One of the United States’ main contenders for this market is Boeing’s F/A-18E Super Hornet. Originally deployed back in 1999, the Super Hornet is today the mainstay of both the U.S. Navy and the Australian Air Force, with over 500 aircraft fielded in total.


Boeing has been aggressively trying to market the Super Hornet to other potential buyers, so far with mixed results. India and Brazil were both approached by Boeing to replace their fleet of fourth-generation fighters–New Delhi ended up buying the French Rafale and Brasilia landed on the Swedish Gripen, partially due to the diplomatic fallout following the Snowden revelations. On the other hand, Finland, Poland, and possibly Kuwait, are considering the Super Hornets for their own fighter replacement programs.


All in all, however, Boeing is struggling to find orders for its Super Hornets. Orders for the aircraft have been falling since the last Super Hornet was delivered to Canberra in 2011.
Ever since that delivery, new models have been produced mainly as replacements for existing aircraft in the U.S. and Australian arsenals. Furthermore, the Super Hornet, alongside its predecessor, the F/A-18 Hornet, is mainly intended as a stopgap measure until Australia deploys its long-awaited F-35s. Although Canberra has ordered several of the Super Hornet’s electronic warfare derivatives, the EA-18G Growler, for 2017, this will not be a viable solution in the long term.

In the Pacific, there are two possible states which represent potential markets for the Super Hornet. Malaysia is in the middle of finding replacements for its 10 Soviet-era MiG-29s. As the F-35 is beyond Kuala Lumpur’s price range, the contenders are the usual suspects: the Dassault Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab’s Gripen C/D and, finally, Boeing’s F/A-18E Super Hornet. The rumor is that the Gripen is leading the competition. This is both due to price, but not least due to the fact that both Brazil and neighboring Thailand acquired the Swedish platform.

According to AviationWeek, the timing of this program is not ideal for Boeing. No decision on Malaysia’s future aircraft is likely within a year, but Boeing’s Super Hornet program manager, Dan Gillan, has previously said that the company would have to decide whether to support continued production of the Super Hornet soon. In other words, to remain a candidate for Malaysia, the Super Hornet will need further orders from elsewhere.

However, Boeing is still putting up a fight. Howard Berry, vice president for Super Hornet sales, emphasizes the payload-range capability of the Super Hornet, which has twice the empty weight of the Gripen C/D. It also has the advantage that the Royal Malaysian Air Force currently operates the F/A-18D Hornet, of which the Super Hornet is an enlarged derivative.

The other contender is Canada. Justin Trudeau’s Liberal government has stated that it will cancel its participation in Lockheed-Martin’s F-35 project and has turned to other sources for its new fighter fleet. As Canada currently operates the Hornet (under the domestic denomination CF-18), Boeing is hoping that Ottawa the familiarity of pilots with the jet, interoperability with the older fleet, and military ties between the U.S. and Canada will make it an obvious choice.

Boeing still makes great fighters. Both the Hornet and the Super Hornet are tried and tested platforms, and have given good operational service. However, with rival Lockheed-Martin claiming a huge stake in the international warplane market with its F-35, and foreign companies offering comparable aircraft to the Super Hornet, Boeing will have to fight hard to stay competitive.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/11/what-are-boeings-prospects-for-the-fa-18ef-super-hornet-in-asia/

----------------

India should be very careful when dealing with anything from United States...
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top